Air Strikes Against Islamic State

[exile]

Does Britain know what it's doing? Are we going to get dragged into another war?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29321136

Where is the UN in all this?

[Guest flumax]

You think it matters what the UN says?

[DaveyDenoon]

Here we go again. Dragged into another war we can't possibly win.

But, we voted for it......

Edited September 23, 2014 by DaveyDenoon

[exile]

You think it matters what the UN says?

I would at least like to know what the UN stance would be, if it has one.

It's not exactly in Russia's or China's interests to have a worldwide caliphate or a regional caliphate on their doorstep. What it their take on this?

Why did America start air strikes before consulting the UN? (open question: I was following other things last week)

Otherwise we face a false choice of just two options: back whatever America wants, or else do nothing.

[thplinth]

Did America not really really really want to bomb Syria a few months back but got thwarted by Putin's diplomacy and the UK parliament saying No?

And then out of nowhere this bizarre group ISIS appeared and within no time at all provided the excuse to...bomb Syria.

We are living in an age of wall to wall propaganda and lies. It is really sinister.

[phart]

Syria was already bombing ISIS it just wasn't reported in the news, the yanks have came into Syrian Air-space unilaterally and killed some civilians (3 children) and are attacking un-named targets, but they're bombing near where a lot of Syria's air-defence is stored.

Israel controls America's middle eastern foreign policy. According to stealth pacs (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stealth-Pacs-Israels-American-Control/dp/0937165034) or the israel lobby.

I wonder when all these groups will attack Israel, instead of compatriots.

[thplinth]

Israel controls America's middle eastern foreign policy. According to stealth pacs (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stealth-Pacs-Israels-American-Control/dp/0937165034) or the israel lobby.

Yes, I defy anyone to read this and not agree. Getting on for 10 years since it came out as well and has only got worse with numerous wars. The humanitarian cost seems completely irrelevant to them. We will be lucky to survive what is coming...

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

[Larky Masher]

Yes, I defy anyone to read this and not agree. Getting on for 10 years since it came out as well and has only got worse with numerous wars. The humanitarian cost seems completely irrelevant to them. We will be lucky to survive what is coming...

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

The neo-conservative/Christian fundamentalist aspect was interesting and something I wasn't aware of.

[saintlyscot]

Just call me dave touring the us TV stations to show Support For the us led action before giving talk to United nations. Preparing the ground to recall parliament and get UK involved probably with air strikes or boots on ground in neighbouring countries. IS a "real threat to us".

[Armchair Bob]

Probably too late now, but we should never be in the middle east in the first place. We can't win, and the harder we hit folk there, the more radicalised they will become and the more we, and everyone, will pay for it in the future.

[exile]

All about oil?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29362252

[peever1745]

Aye as has already been said , we voted for this last week so just accept it. Oh and the only reason Britain and America is going in is to protect the Northern and Southern Iraqi oil fields.

[saintlyscot]

Once we bomb the sh1T out of these places their is little in way of plan,will or cash to put them back together. Let's climb on uncle Sams back again for a bit of warmongering. Idiots.

[Mark frae Crieff]

Here we go again... How long to the next suicide bombers.... If you fight religion you will not win as it is near impossible to beat a faith...

[thplinth]

I do not know what the Saudis are (spare me the jewish theories please) but for sure they are not muslims.

[tartandon]

The UK eagerness to win the referendum was about oil and hubris.

The Iraq war was about oil and hubris.

The next spate of bombings is about oil and hubris.

[exile]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29355981

Some questions

What is the broader strategy? How long will air strikes be needed? Whose combat boots will ultimately be on the ground? Does it make military sense not to strike targets in Syria?

And, crucially, what is the end game?

An answer

the UK's participation is as much political and diplomatic as it is military.

As one MP said to me: "The Americans have lots of bombs. They don't really need ours. But they do like us to be on the team. And we are finally turning up on the pitch."

Sounds like a vanity project?

And what of the UN?

Edited September 26, 2014 by exile

[Bristolhibby]

Let's just rejoice in the fact that we get to watch massive airforces bomb the shit out of people. Surely we all love 24 hour killing on the BBC?

We are like those Isralis whooping from ontop of the hill over looking Gaza.

Ye Ha!

Get some!!

J

[Larky Masher]

Another vanity conflict to make a PM feel like a real leader, if the Yanks and other Arab nations want to take this on let that be this year's coalition of the willing.

[Hessen]

The RAF has 7 squadrons, each having about 12 aircraft, of which only 8 can be used at one time = 56

Some of these must be used for home defence and at least one squadron has no bombing capability...so we are looking at maybe 30 aircraft that could be sent to Syria over an extended period.

Saudi Arabia has 300 aircraft, is just next door, and is sending none!

[gruffarse]

We have been selling high tech military kit to Saudi, Bahrain and Qatar for years yet the only time it gets an airing is when they are kicking hell out of their own people (while our politicians generally whistle and look the other way). They have more than enough capability to take out IS who are basically a militia. This is purely a vanity project by our great leaders whilst they are still telling us how much debt we are in and how welfare/NHS/education needs cut.

I'm also getting quite sick of the BBC pandering to posh ex military men who keep telling us that we should forget about the previous Iraq debacle and that it's different this time. After reading Nick Robinsons tweets leading up to this, he quite clearly has a hard-on for bombing some arabs.

[Rossy]

If only we had a way to break out of this depressing cycle of continually pretending to be world police, and creating a never-ending cycle of arming lunatics/being everyone's enemy/ bombing enemy/being hated wordwide.

Oh wait a minute, we did.

[Hessen]

If only we had a way to break out of this depressing cycle of continually pretending to be world police, and creating a never-ending cycle of arming lunatics/being everyone's enemy/ bombing enemy/being hated wordwide.

Oh wait a minute, we did.

I wrote to an MP today saying we shouldnt enter another illegal war. This is her reply...

This is an incredibly difficult decision. We do have legal backing for the commitment of 6 Tornado aircraft. We have been asked by a democratically elected government to assist. We are specifically voting on Iraq only and for no boots on the ground. However ISIL's advance and their financial backing are both significant and it has only been the current wave of air strikes which have contained them. Containing them and pushing them back will help that continued tide of human misery which is fleeing ahead of ISIL. They are putting huge pressures on the states around Iraq and that in turn risks destabilising other states. We are not going into Syria because we do not have UN clearance. In pushing back ISIL we then allow Iraqi troops and Peshmerga fighters to have the confidence to regroup and take control of their territory and protect Shia, Sunni, Christian and Yazidi on the ground. In Kosovo it was air power which allowed the troops on the ground and UN to move in and expose the dreadful massacres which had taken place and secure villages and towns.

I would suggest you read Ed Miliband's speech which sets out the very different position we are in today compared with the vote on Syria.

[scotlad]

If only we had a way to break out of this depressing cycle of continually pretending to be world police, and creating a never-ending cycle of arming lunatics/being everyone's enemy/ bombing enemy/being hated wordwide.

Oh wait a minute, we did.

I still cannot believe that this did not register with more people.

The UK is, basically, a rogue state - and we voted to be part of it!

[Rossy]

I still cannot believe that this did not register with more people.

For me it's another example of people unquestioningly following central government like sheep.

We've become so absolutely conditioned to accept the power of Westminster, that many people simple can't countenance anything else.

If the referendum showed us one thing, it's that people power (I hate that phrase) actually still has some impact in the right circumstances.....that the establishment can democratically be made to jump to the wishes of the man in the street.

Unfortunately, we chose to hand that power straight back to the establishment. So now we're back into the same cycle of centralised government and the state broadcaster telling us how it is.