ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 hours ago, TDYER63 said: Not forgetting the book which is probably being penned as we speak. Nauseating. And people will buy it, even those who hate her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said: The fact that every week some roaster in the Question Time audience shouts "We voted to leave, why havent we left " or "We should just leave" shows the damage that has been done with both May and Corbyn not being honest. May should have addressed this nonsense from the start rather than her "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal" rhetoric She should have made clear that any deal would not be as good as being in the EU and that the UK Union would end if we left without a deal considering how Scotland (and to a lesser extent) NI voted Then she should have put it back to the public and if no deal was still the option she should have stood down and have a General Election and let a party with no deal as it's manifesto run Isn’t a no deal Brexit what the UK voted for? You’re right that any deal would be worse than being a full member of the EU but people voted to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Isn’t a no deal Brexit what the UK voted for? You’re right that any deal would be worse than being a full member of the EU but people voted to leave. Well of course there was no detail on what leaving would look like but show me an example of any prominent Leave campaigner putting forward the view that they would like to leave without a deal. You won't be able because they didn't say anything approaching that, to the contrary they we're in the main proposing what would now be considered a very soft Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, aaid said: Well of course there was no detail on what leaving would look like but show me an example of any prominent Leave campaigner putting forward the view that they would like to leave without a deal. You won't be able because they didn't say anything approaching that, to the contrary they we're in the main proposing what would now be considered a very soft Brexit. Be best just scrapping it now and take the hit at the next election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Isn’t a no deal Brexit what the UK voted for? You’re right that any deal would be worse than being a full member of the EU but people voted to leave. A No Deal Brexit was never an option - let's be honest. And Brexiteers failed to address or even think about the most pivotal reason for why this was the case. Brexiteers never once mentioned what would happen in this idyllic No deal Brexit world of theirs to the Irish Border. The Irish Border issue was only ever going to remain as is to protect the Good Friday Agreement meaning a hard border was not an option and for a No Deal Brexit to happen it can only do so with a hard border going up in Ireland. And so that is where everything unravels. As if a soft border was to remain then some sort of trade deals or other solution tying the UK to the EU is necessary. Brexit No Deal - the great white lie. Edited May 25, 2019 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: A No Deal Brexit was never an option - let's be honest. And Brexiteers failed to address or even think about the most pivotal reason for why this was the case. Brexiteers never once mentioned what would happen in this idyllic No deal Brexit world of theirs to the Irish Border. The Irish Border issue was only ever going to remain as is to protect the Good Friday Agreement meaning a hard border was not an option and for a No Deal Brexit to happen it can only do so with a hard border going up in Ireland. And so that is where everything unravels. As if a soft border was to remain then some sort of trade deals or other solution tying the UK to the EU is necessary. Brexit No Deal - the great white lie. Aye it does seem voters have been sold a lie right enough. Hopefully other countries without the complications of the Irish border can vote to leave the EU in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye it does seem voters have been sold a lie right enough. Hopefully other countries without the complications of the Irish border can vote to leave the EU in the future. Of course they will be able to. The Irish Border is a very complex matter and one that was always going to shape what sort of Brexit there would be. It really beggars belief that those driving the Brexit bus never once addressed it until way after Leave had won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Of course they will be able to. The Irish Border is a very complex matter and one that was always going to shape what sort of Brexit there would be. It really beggars belief that those driving the Brexit bus never once addressed it until way after Leave had won. It seemed from the outside anyway that nobody actually thought leave would win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Just now, ParisInAKilt said: It seemed from the outside anyway that nobody actually thought leave would win. I have no doubt errors were made on both sides. Brexiteers not thinking of all scenarios and Remainers perhaps being far too cock-sure that Remain would win and so prepared a weak case due to over-confidence. Personally, I am ambivalent about the EU issue. I can see reasons for being in it and reasons for not but either way independence has to be achieved first before Scotland can make those sort of decisions. For leaving the EU sure you can do your own trade deals and hold more control over all issues but on the other side of the coin there is much to lose such as use of services supplied by the EU and EU partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: It seemed from the outside anyway that nobody actually thought leave would win. Plenty folk thought that Leave could win. Opinion polls suggested that it would be very close which is what it turned out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padre Andrew Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 A while ago there was a strong feeling that so many Tory MPs hated Boris Johnson that through tactical voting they would ensure he would never make the final short leet of two for party leader, where the vote goes out to party members. Now the feeling seems to be that Tory MPs are so feart of the grassroots that they dare not exclude him from that final vote, which he'd be odds on to win. So, all hail BoJo the PM, the midwife of Scottish independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 35 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: I have no doubt errors were made on both sides. Brexiteers not thinking of all scenarios and Remainers perhaps being far too cock-sure that Remain would win and so prepared a weak case due to over-confidence. Personally, I am ambivalent about the EU issue. I can see reasons for being in it and reasons for not but either way independence has to be achieved first before Scotland can make those sort of decisions. For leaving the EU sure you can do your own trade deals and hold more control over all issues but on the other side of the coin there is much to lose such as use of services supplied by the EU and EU partners. I think as long as the EU exists, you’re better being in rather than being out. It’s an enemy to working folk though but would need people from across Europe to unite and bring it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I repeatedly see people saying "we have ruled out a no deal Brexit". That is utter rubbish - it is impossible as a no deal Brexit is what WILL happen unless some sort of deal is agreed. It is the default fallback position. It's like saying you are not going to pay your electricity bill but you are ruling out darkness. It is possible to DELAY a no deal Brexit by agreeing an extension, or to prevent it by revoking article 50, but unless the UK govt actually does something that means a deal is agreed, a no deal brexit WILL happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lairdyfaeinverclyde Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 The real deal......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny79 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: I have no doubt errors were made on both sides. Brexiteers not thinking of all scenarios and Remainers perhaps being far too cock-sure that Remain would win and so prepared a weak case due to over-confidence. Personally, I am ambivalent about the EU issue. I can see reasons for being in it and reasons for not but either way independence has to be achieved first before Scotland can make those sort of decisions. For leaving the EU sure you can do your own trade deals and hold more control over all issues but on the other side of the coin there is much to lose such as use of services supplied by the EU and EU partners. Finally a balanced answer but missing one point. Point about Scotland can't be independent if it's still part of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, Bonny79 said: Finally a balanced answer but missing one point. Point about Scotland can't be independent if it's still part of the EU. Aye, and Sweden, Germany, Slovakia, Ireland and Luxembourg are not independent countries either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny79 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Grim Jim said: Aye, and Sweden, Germany, Slovakia, Ireland and Luxembourg are not independent countries either. Not truely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lairdyfaeinverclyde Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 38 minutes ago, Bonny79 said: Finally a balanced answer but missing one point. Point about Scotland can't be independent if it's still part of the EU. So what you are saying is that if you are married and have an extended family you cannot make decisions about were you live, were you go on holiday without the consent of the extended family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Grim Jim said: Aye, and Sweden, Germany, Slovakia, Ireland and Luxembourg are not independent countries either. Desperate yoons are now trying to play this one up. Really odd given that in 2014 they were using the EU membership as a bargaining chip as a reason to vote No. Only independent countries can decide to wage a phoney war on a Middle East country as UK did under Tony Blair. Only an independent country in the EU could say no to taking on the Euro and not have it forced upon them. And UK is so independent it is even choosing to leave the EU. Very odd. A non-independent country would be told you are not leaving. End of. Hard lines Yoons you really must try harder. Edited May 26, 2019 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 depends how far you wanna take it but aye there’s an argument that no country is independent anymore, the leave side is hypocritical if they think leave the EU will suddenly make the UK an independent sovereign national with democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 If BREXIT was just a vehicle for Gove and Boris to get themselves into No 10 at some point then (even though they did not think they would 'win') it has worked. Totally laid waste to the country in the process and created a colossal mess that might take a generation to be fully felt. Somehow I dont feel like either of those two should benefit out of this... but looks like one of them will and maybe both by the time it is done. Fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny79 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 What about farrage for pm? Brexit party do well in a general election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Bonny79 said: Finally a balanced answer but missing one point. Point about Scotland can't be independent if it's still part of the EU. Utter pish. That's like saying you're not actually human because you eat vegetables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny79 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alibi said: Utter pish. That's like saying you're not actually human because you eat vegetables. Think the utter pish bit might be what you just typed about vegetables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Lets see how this plays out tonight but Britain Elects have published a prediction for the results based on polling and turnout. If this is true, then it paints a very different picture from the narrative the MSM have been putting forward. There's no big breakthrough for the Brexit Party, they'll only get 1 seat more that they did when they were called UKIP. Bad night for both Labour and the Tories but a very good night for the Lib Dems so looks like the "real winner" is an unequivocal Remain party, on the surface it look so like they've peeled of the Remainers from the Tories and Labour If - and that's a big if - I wonder what spin the MSM, will put on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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