The Brexit Thread

[phart]

27 minutes ago, Mox said:

Ok, so from your perspective, what is Farage trying to convey when standing in front of a poster showing a queue of non white migrants with the words 'Breaking Point' plastered across it?

We are taking in too many immigrants.

That's not a racist view.

Unless you're for free open borders everywhere it's everyone's view. Just a matter of degree.

Edited May 21, 2019 by phart

[bonny78]

26 minutes ago, Haggis_trap said:

^ Baws.

The ERG / DUP also voted against Mays deal - all be it for different reasons : however they still blocked it.
Brexiters supposedly wanted to 'take back control'.  Now they complain about Parliament exercising that exact sovereignty during the Brexit process.
You can't have it both ways.

I will ask again : you think Brexit is going well ?

 

 

No Brexit is not going well but it’s a complex issue (simple vote, but a complex issue.)

29^th March was supposed to be our saviour date and we could have been already enjoying a post brexit Britain right now.

Horrible that people have made a mess of it since the vote.     Still,  won’t be too much longer.

[ParisInAKilt]

If the government listened to voters and had a sensible immigration policy then folk like Farage wouldn’t get a look in.

For supposedly being an intolerant country, England has had a relatively large amount of immigration. 

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, phart said:

Gordon Brown was moaning about thousands of £499 payments, although someone pointed out the larger problem is it's the same for any party and we could literally be selling our democracy out.

 

It's become pretty clear over the last few years that electoral law in this country and the Electoral Commission as a regulator are not fit for purpose, the laws need to be reformed and the regulator needs more teeth.

Fines for breaches don't work as they'll be written off as the cost of doing business - people need to go to jail.

[aaid]

Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

If the government listened to voters and had a sensible immigration policy then folk like Farage wouldn’t get a look in.

For supposedly being an intolerant country, England has had a relatively large amount of immigration. 

What would you consider to be a relatively large amount of immigration?

[ParisInAKilt]

9 minutes ago, aaid said:

What would you consider to be a relatively large amount of immigration?

Anything over 10% of the total population.

*actually not sure if I believe that or not, if never thought of it as a figure until then but the idea that Britain or other western countries are intolerant of immigration is an idea that should be challenged.

Edited May 21, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[phart]

or how about stopping the causes for immigration at source and avoiding all that.

 

Damn we can't the MIC is the biggest lobby anywhere and they need continual wars for profit. Our decision makers have been quite happy to go along with that.

[ParisInAKilt]

6 minutes ago, phart said:

or how about stopping the causes for immigration at source and avoiding all that.

Yep and something rarely if at all mentioned anymore by either side or the press. 

http://www.gearoidocolmain.org/category/series/coercive-engineered-migration/

Edited May 21, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[bonny78]

Brexit isn’t going to change our immigration policy overnight.     If anything we can alter it as we see fit and toggle about as much as want to suit us.      On the whole the VISA system is quite good as it allows checks to be made and small fees to be collected from people who wish to tour.

 

 

Happened to me when I went to America using the ESTA and I also paid a small fee for my Indian VISA when I went there.       It really is not much trouble these days now that we have the fast internet.

Edited May 21, 2019 by bonny78

[Ally Bongo]

What i find hilarious is that anyone in Scotland of a certain age thinks that Brexit is going to be good for anyone here never mind north of Watford

 

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

What i find hilarious is that anyone in Scotland of a certain age thinks that Brexit is going to be good for anyone here never mind north of Watford

 

Think that highlights your own agenda more than anyone else’s. 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, phart said:

or how about stopping the causes for immigration at source and avoiding all that.

 

Damn we can't the MIC is the biggest lobby anywhere and they need continual wars for profit. Our decision makers have been quite happy to go along with that.

Very little UK immigration comes from countries that are at war, the top 10 countries for immigration to the UK are India, Poland, Pakistan, Republic of Ireland Germany, Bangladesh, South Africa, Nigeria, US and China.

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Think that highlights your own agenda more than anyone else’s. 

Agenda ?

How about historical fact ?

How about revealing your "agenda" and give some examples of how Scotland will benefit ?

Edited May 21, 2019 by Ally Bongo

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

What i find hilarious is that anyone in Scotland of a certain age thinks that Brexit is going to be good for anyone here never mind north of Watford

 

Plenty south of Watford didn't think Brexit was going to be good either.  London voted 60% Remain.

[ParisInAKilt]

6 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Agenda ?

How about historical fact ?

How about revealing your "agenda" and give some examples of how Scotland will benefit ?

What historical facts?

My agenda if you want to call it that is as much political freedom as possible, hence why in principle I’m against the EU, which isn’t an endorsement of Westminster.

[aaid]

1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

What historical facts?

My agenda if you want to call it that is as much political freedom as possible, hence why in principle I’m against the EU, which isn’t an endorsement of Westminster.

If you want as much political freedom as possible why doesn't that extend to freedom of movement?

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

If you want as much political freedom as possible why doesn't that extend to freedom of movement?

Absolutely, And I acknowledge my own hypocrisy on this, in an ideal world that would be what I’d like, unfortunately as the article I shared above talks about how migration is used geopolitically

It shouldn’t need to be said but refugees, economic migrants and asylum seekers are all victims here 

Edited May 21, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[Caledonian Craig]

At the end of the day what will Brexit bring? Realistically I mean.

In the current guise the UK will NOT be able to make trade deals elsewhere if May's Deal goes through. And No Deal Brexit will see the UK without a major trade deal so will be starting from scratch. Lots are banking on some sort of super deal with Trump. He is smart though. He'll know the deperation of the UK not part of the EU. He'll barter tough knowing desperation will have the UK take any deal to fill the chasm left by leaving EU. Also what with the Huawei situation you can kind of rule China out of potential trade deals.In short the UK will be playing with the weakest hand possible. That deal is not going to happen overnight either. Prices are certain to rise for produce that comes from the EU that cannot be denied. People have said to me that the UK can just get their fruit from further afield - eh yes fruit travels well over days - not. Will immigrants be stopped getting into the country on the strength of a signed piece of paper - I do not think so. Tougher borders? They may be but certainly not in Ireland so there is a flaw already there. What happens to the various services the UK uses within the EU such as ESA satellite systems? From what I have heard they will lose the use of them or incur great costs to go on using them. Police co-operation with such forces as Interpol will be under threat too.

What can the UK do better by being on its own? If we were talking 50 or 60 years ago I'd be far more confident given that the UK had its own thriving car industry, motorbike industry, electronics industry, coal industry and ship-building industry but they have all gone now and we rely on other countries to supply us in those areas.

[Mox]

57 minutes ago, phart said:

We are taking in too many immigrants.

That's not a racist view.

Unless you're for free open borders everywhere it's everyone's view. Just a matter of degree.

No its not a racist view, I would tend to agree, but why stand in front of a poster with non EU immigrants lining up to get into Slovenia as part of his campaign to leave The EU? 

 

[phart]

4 minutes ago, Mox said:

No its not a racist view, I would tend to agree, but why stand in front of a poster with non EU immigrants lining up to get into Slovenia as part of his campaign to leave The EU? 

 

No idea about that one. To appeal to folk he wants to vote for him would be my guess.

Edited May 21, 2019 by phart

[bonny78]

32 minutes ago, Mox said:

No its not a racist view, I would tend to agree, but why stand in front of a poster with non EU immigrants lining up to get into Slovenia as part of his campaign to leave The EU? 

 

 

Because at the time immigration was the hottest topic in the country.

 

Some were talking about the net benefit that immigration brought,  others were talking about the negativity of immigration.  

 

In the middle of this Farrage created a spectacle with the poster probably to get some votes from narrow minded bigots (a votes a vote right??)   but also to keep the issue in the limelight. 

[hampden_loon2878]

3 hours ago, bonny78 said:

I voted NO because I m proud to be British and not just Scottish.   

The SNP are being laughed at for wanting independence but being in the EU - a contradiction in terms. 

 

 

Contradiction is wanting “independence” from europe but yet fighting to stop your country governing it own affairs, i am constant in my belief in a country being self governing whether that be scotland in the uk or a loser relationship in europe

 

“””Proud ; pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions, having or displaying excessive self-esteem and having proper self respect””””

Proud to be scottish and british is not compatible  

 

[bonny78]

10 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

 

 

Contradiction is wanting “independence” from europe but yet fighting to stop your country governing it own affairs, i am constant in my belief in a country being self governing whether that be scotland in the uk or a loser relationship in europe

 

“””Proud ; pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions, having or displaying excessive self-esteem and having proper self respect””””

Proud to be scottish and british is not compatible  

 

 

Only in your narrow mind. 

 

 

Your passport says British,  you use the British currency,  you are bound by British law bar a few minor alterations for Scots law.

 If you were ever involved in a diplomatic incident you would be called a “British citizen”,    If you went to go to the Olympics or played most sports at the top level you would have a British flag against your name on the graphic.

You are more British than you realise and your more British than Scottish  (like it or not)

Edited May 21, 2019 by bonny78

[hampden_loon2878]

For what its worth i think farage will do a lot better than the polls are sayin in scotland, my guess 

snp 35%

brexit party 19%

labour 17%

tories 15%

libs 12%

Greens 10%

[phart]

2 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

 

Only in your narrow mind. 

 

 

 

Your passport says British,  you use the British currency,  you are bound by British law bar a few minor alterations for Scots law.

 

 If you were ever involved in a diplomatic incident you would be called a “British citizen”,    If you went to the Olympics or played most sports at the top level you would have a British flag against your name on the graphic.

 

You are more British than you realise and your more British than Scottish  (like it or not)

 

no such thing as British law.

Telling someone else their identity can work both ways. Using how sports are organized to identify nationality is facile. Look at Qatar's sporting squad see how that fits into your theory.