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Independence Without A Referendum


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Yeap.

It's important at this moment in time that supporters of independence don't give these rags the chance to paint every single person as an extremist, as they have done for 2 years now.

There's a lot of anger and frustration out there which should be channelled into supporting the SNP, and their efforts to hold Westminster to account for reneging on their....cough...'vows'.

Not the greatest statement from Salmond.

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Independence without a vote, Day of Reckoning, Over 50'being singled out, blaming everyone but himself for Yes only obtaining 38% of the registered voters. The rhetoric is concerning from Salmond and Sillars. Thank goodness for Nicola Sturgeon and her calming words in the Guardian today in which she states she intends to align the SNP to devolution within the UK.

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Totally disagree.

It MUST be clearly stated on Page 1 of the SNP manifesto that a vote for them to govern, is a vote for them to govern in an independent Scotland (and I have complete faith that it will be).

Shit or bust perhaps.

But it has never been the SNP's intention to permanently govern in a UK region.

A fair fight was tried. Want an SNP government? Then it comes with Independence.

Don't want Independence? Then vote for your choice of despicable liars instead.

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Independence without a vote, Day of Reckoning, Over 50'being singled out, blaming everyone but himself for Yes only obtaining 38% of the registered voters. The rhetoric is concerning from Salmond and Sillars. Thank goodness for Nicola Sturgeon and her calming words in the Guardian today in which she states she intends to align the SNP to devolution within the UK.

Oh, shut up ya tedious, boring wee fart.

Any comment on the broken timetable, and apparent lies from the No campaign ?

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Oh, shut up ya tedious, boring wee fart.

Any comment on the broken timetable, and apparent lies from the No campaign ?

Patrick Harvie spoke sense on R4 today. Better to get it right first time rather than spend years undoing unworkable legislation.SNP need to play their part and I am sure they will. Edited by EddardStark
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The union is crumbling like a digestive biscuit as we speak, the no vote has eroded immensely from the start of the campaign and already the supposed promised powers by Brown (the worst PM of recent times) leaves many no voters already regretting their decision. The cork is out of the bottle or cracks are in the dam...independence will happen it is just a matter of when.

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Independence without a vote, Day of Reckoning, Over 50'being singled out, blaming everyone but himself for Yes only obtaining 38% of the registered voters. The rhetoric is concerning from Salmond and Sillars. Thank goodness for Nicola Sturgeon and her calming words in the Guardian today in which she states she intends to align the SNP to devolution within the UK.

What was the percentage of the registered vote for the shameful no vote?

You sound worried? AS is only playing by the rules that the unionists have played for decades.

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England wants it's own parliament as do Wales and Northern Ireland, almost half of Scots voted for Independence and yet you still think the union is rock solid?? You are living in a time of say four generations ago.

The union gave security to many in dark days of World Wars One and Two where English, Scots, Irish and Welsh fought alongside each other in the trenches and died for one another. To coin a phrase from our national anthem 'those days are gone now' and a swiftly growing move to localised governments and seperation of one ruling body is now in place. The union is dying and I'd guess it may have no more than a generation left in it.

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What Salmond says is true.

Imagine if in a few years everyone is so angry with the broken promises and cuts that they return a huge number of SNP MSPs.

What if the membership of the SNP had swollen making it even bigger than the Conservative and Unionist party.

These are mandates for independence outright or at least another vote.

Edited by thplinth
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I agree that now isn't a great time to be making ourselves look like spoilt brats that didn't get their own way.

However, unless I'm making this too simplistic, surely if the SNP make it abundantly clear in their manifesto that in the event of a majority at Holyrood, they will declare independence, then it's down to the electorate.

It is in essence a referendum is it not?

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Independence without a vote, Day of Reckoning, Over 50'being singled out, blaming everyone but himself for Yes only obtaining 38% of the registered voters. The rhetoric is concerning from Salmond and Sillars. Thank goodness for Nicola Sturgeon and her calming words in the Guardian today in which she states she intends to align the SNP to devolution within the UK.

Full Devo max and they safeguard the union. easy.

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What Salmond says is true.

Imagine if in a few years everyone is so angry with the broken promises and cuts that they return a huge number of SNP MSPs.

What if the membership of the SNP had swollen making it even bigger than the Conservative and Unionist party.

These are mandates for independence outright or at least another vote.

Absolutely.

Just remember that Brown's pledges came out of a moment of sheer blind panic after the first opinion poll putting the Yes vote in the lead. Thereafter the no vote edged back ahead again undoubtedly on his pledges. Any referendum/election won built up on falsehoods merits another vote.

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I agree that now isn't a great time to be making ourselves look like spoilt brats that didn't get their own way.However, unless I'm making this too simplistic, surely if the SNP make it abundantly clear in their manifesto that in the event of a majority at Holyrood, they will declare independence, then it's down to the electorate.It is in essence a referendum is it not?

so what would be the question?
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I don't think this is a good idea at this stage, just makes us look like crackpots with our hands over our ears.

I reckon, as some have suggested, that it has to be done in logical steps.

It was too much of a leap for many to go to full independence.

Take the new powers, if they end up coming, then push for DevoMax, then get another referendum lined up.

If they don't give us the powers then obviously that's a different situation, but I think the stepping stones approach would appease enough NO voters at each stage that come the question again more would be willing to go with us.

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Independence without a vote, Day of Reckoning, Over 50'being singled out, blaming everyone but himself for Yes only obtaining 38% of the registered voters. The rhetoric is concerning from Salmond and Sillars. Thank goodness for Nicola Sturgeon and her calming words in the Guardian today in which she states she intends to align the SNP to devolution within the UK.

The only logical reason for mentioning this is that you think it should have necessitated 50% of eligible voters to say Yes. 50% of eligible voters did not say No, either.

Either that or your capacity for logic is impaired.

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