Parklife Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 And what if the promises made by Westminster either aren't met or are less than was promised?The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. The SNP need to accept the result, while also pressing for the promises made to be kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The SNP now need to show magnanimity and grace in defeat and work constructively for a while within the union. The contrast with Labour from 2007 onwards will then be all the more obvious to the voting public. Absolutely. I don't think many in Scotland would thank the SNP for not recognising that the referendum result was fairly conclusive in the short term. Continue to argue for independence, but talk of a referendum any time soon or of UDI based on a majority vote in the 2016 election, will alienate many of those we need on board, and probably reduce the SNP vote. An effective administration at Holyrood, efficient use of any extended devolution powers, minimising the impact of austerity post UK elections. Grown up politics is what will win people over, particularly in the likely context of constitutional turmoil at a UK level and gains by UKIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 As has been said many times before we even think about another referendum we need to have things in place. It's no use saying lets go again in 2020 without at least - Broadcasting powers fully devolved and some Scottish owned newspapers offering unbiased media Scottish Government setting up it's own bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The fact the recorded result was a No is reality. Anyone who refuses to accept it is only causing their self suffering. Does that mean I accept no for a generation? No. Does that mean I recognise No as a fair or just vote? No. Do not bundle acceptance of factual reality with acceptance of a pile shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albathebrave Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Rightly so. Our case is entirely different from theirs tough, unfortunately. A referendum in Catalonia would be such an easy victory that it's almost pointless having one. They are a proud people with confidence and belief in themselves. Scotland is a nation who is 55% made up of shitebags and the selfish. excellent post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The fact the recorded result was a No is reality. Anyone who refuses to accept it is only causing their self suffering. Does that mean I accept no for a generation? No. Does that mean I recognise No as a fair or just vote? No. Do not bundle acceptance of factual reality with acceptance of a pile shite. Yes I agree. Is the referendum deemed fair and just if promises were made at the eleventh hour that shouldn't have been allowed to be made by Brown that changed the natural course of the vote and gave us the result we got? And then that could quite possibly be topped off by those promises not being kept. Remember that Brown's promises were a panicked knee-jerk reaction that came a day or two after the poll that showed the yes vote had a lead. After the promises the no vote in polls surged. It evidently was a key part of the campaign and a key reason for people voting the way they did and even some have been quoted on TV as saying as much. So if these promises aren't kept what action could the SNP take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_fadiator Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I agree it should be a campaign on devo max for 2015 election. The issue is then what's put in the 2016 manifesto, especially as the EU referendum will be 2017. You'd therefore have to say, "in the event of a vote taking the UK out of the EU where Scotland opts to remain, we will legislate for a referendum on independence". That sounds a bit messy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Best thing would be for us to sit back and watch Westminster eat itself from inside out over this constitutional law argument and then pick off Scottish Labour at the 2015 GE. If we can destroy Scottish Labour then Independence can only be a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Best thing would be for us to sit back and watch Westminster eat itself from inside out over this constitutional law argument and then pick off Scottish Labour at the 2015 GE. If we can destroy Scottish Labour then Independence can only be a matter of time. Great post on BellaCaledonia saying exactly the same thing. It sayswe need to work nowto put everything properly I place so that next time it is a certainty. They are creating a new central media source to counter the unionist msm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The same shite bag pensioner vote that stabbed the Yes in the heart on the 18th will line up to vote for the SNP in the next regional election to save all their benefits. You watch it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. The SNP need to accept the result, while also pressing for the promises made to be kept. Sorry, although I respect you and your views I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about here. The UK government changed the game plan when they brought in the 'more powers' at the very last minute. You simply can't remove FFA from the option right at the start and then some how come up with a so called devo max option right before the vote and after the postal votes have been cast. So tell me, what is to be respected? Are you saying that we have got to mutually respected in the sense that they don't respect f*ck all, but we've got to respect everything they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 The fact the recorded result was a No is reality. Anyone who refuses to accept it is only causing their self suffering. Does that mean I accept no for a generation? No. Does that mean I recognise No as a fair or just vote? No. Do not bundle acceptance of factual reality with acceptance of a pile shite. It is how that no vote was brought about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Great post on BellaCaledonia saying exactly the same thing. It sayswe need to work nowto put everything properly I place so that next time it is a certainty. They are creating a new central media source to counter the unionist msm. Let them fight with each other while we re-group and build for the next time is the logical step Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Sorry, although I respect you and your views I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about here. The UK government changed the game plan when they brought in the 'more powers' at the very last minute. You simply can't remove FFA from the option right at the start and then some how come up with a so called devo max option right before the vote and after the postal votes have been cast. So tell me, what is to be respected? Are you saying that we have got to mutually respected in the sense that they don't respect f*ck all, but we've got to respect everything they do? If you do not give respect you cannot expect it in return. Were we given respect? And so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Sorry, although I respect you and your views I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about here. The UK government changed the game plan when they brought in the 'more powers' at the very last minute. You simply can't remove FFA from the option right at the start and then some how come up with a so called devo max option right before the vote and after the postal votes have been cast. So tell me, what is to be respected? Are you saying that we have got to mutually respected in the sense that they don't respect f*ck all, but we've got to respect everything they do? What's done is done and rather fighting over it we should be figuring out how not to get out flanked by bloody Gordon Brown the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Parklife, on 22 Sept 2014 - 2:29 PM, said: Rightly so. Our case is entirely different from theirs tough, unfortunately. A referendum in Catalonia would be such an easy victory that it's almost pointless having one. They are a proud people with confidence and belief in themselves. Scotland is a nation who is 55% made up of shitebags and the selfish. Now that I totally agree on. I do believe their TV is home grown though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Let them fight with each other while we re-group and build for the next time is the logical step Exactly but be wiser, more prepared, and do it properly. We can now predict what we are up against and work to address these things. Ready to work on the fears of the 55. The article mentioned the creation of a truly scottish investment bank that we could support. It's very encouraging that already people who have the ability to do it are already planning for the next opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I don;t see any benefit in SNP leadership stirring things up and sounding like a sore loser. they just become a lightning rod for abuse. The grassroots can start rebuilding for the next attempt but could be better done under the radar. An SNP majority in Wm surely more likely if it can be a safe protest vote and not immediate trigger of independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Seems like a good place to post this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Scottish independence: A leading academic has warned Westminster that failure to deliver on its powers promise could prompt a second referendum - with the result a landslide victory for the Yes campaign. Dr Matt Qvortrup said that last Thursday’s result - which saw 45 per cent of voters back Scotland’s breakaway from the UK - should serve as a ‘wake-up call to the chattering classes’ in England. ... “Statemanship is needed, But neither Cameron nor Ed Miliband - and still less Nick Clegg - are strong leaders. “It is questionable if they have the qualities needed to deliver change they promised.” And he warned that the break-up of the United Kingdom could be ‘on the cards’ if Westminster fail to live up to the pre-referendum pledge. “If it comes around again, the desire of Scots to sever ties with the Westminster establishment will be even stronger,” Dr Qvortrup explained. “Time is on the side of those who favour independence and I can’t see the desire change ebbing away.” http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/yes-landslide-if-westminster-breaks-powers-vow-1-3548368 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 The single biggest factor between yes and no was not Gordon brown, it was the media. There has to be a renewed push for devolved broadcasting, though now Westminster has had its effectiveness demonstrated, they will be even more reluctant than before to part with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Exactly thplinth. And Westminster are all set to back another war well air strikes against the Islamic State as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Exactly thplinth. And Westminster are all set to back another war well air strikes against the Islamic State as well. They were lining up Russia before this referendum provided a beautiful but alas brief respite. Hardly anyone has spoken of the lost opportunity to uncouple ourselves from all that lunacy but I am sure they will when it starts back up again sometime real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Spot on. On another thread we had a no voter explain why he voted no. Well sorry but can anyone please tell me when we last had a Westminster government that hasn't lied to us. I will list for those no voters my gripes:- Poll Tax from Tories. Sheer and utter rip-off to ensure the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Closure of mines and shipbuilding yards by Tories. Privatisation by Tories. Led into a war against Iraq based on lies, lies and more lies. What's more the troops were poorly equipped. Scandal after scandal at Westminster - too many to mention. Disbanding of several of Scotland's most famous regiments. Losses of pensions. Introduction of tuition fees and now English students are piling into Scotland yet still voting for those that are hitting them in the pocket. Sorry no voters but we have suffered far too long with this ineptitude and sheer incompetent governments. Westminster have been given far too long to screw up our country and I would much rather see it run by Scots for Scots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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