Council elections

[hampden_loon2878]

4 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Im not sure you can call them "scum" one minute and then ask them to vote "Yes" the next. Scottish Labour are all but dead and buried because they took the electorate for granted and played the man instead of the ball when it came to SNP supporters. Im seeing far too many SNP and Yes supporters who havent learned from Scottish Labour's mistakes and think talking at people and throwing names or insults about is the way to woo them. It's really not. There's a huge difference between the Tory party and those who might have voted Tory.

 

Spot on, we as a party have to ensure we do not isolate snp voters,, sturgeons posturing over brexit did exactly that to leave/snp/yes voters,, there was no regard for them,, hence the fall in support,, this had been gently bubbling under the surface since the 2015 GE... to me sturgeon had one political task and that was retain voters while gently gaining other.She has failed and i am actually mad at her handling of the whole situation. I watched an interview with AS and you could tell he was rattled...no amount af papering over the cracks can hide the difficulties we face,, sturgeon needs to step up

[PapofGlencoe]

26 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Im not sure you can call them "scum" one minute and then ask them to vote "Yes" the next. Scottish Labour are all but dead and buried because they took the electorate for granted and played the man instead of the ball when it came to SNP supporters. Im seeing far too many SNP and Yes supporters who havent learned from Scottish Labour's mistakes and think talking at people and throwing names or insults about is the way to woo them. It's really not. There's a huge difference between the Tory party and those who might have voted Tory.

not calling the voters scum but they're voting for scum and a lot of them know it. 'stuff it, i'll vote Tory'. They aren't benign.  A lot of these Scots are not Tory voters.  They're sending a message.  Making them aware voting Tory has baggage is fair..

17 minutes ago, phil said:

Quite right. Clear message of the night - the overwhelming majority of Scots don't want independence, and want to make clear their rejection of a party some of whose supporters call anyone that disagrees with them 'scum'. 

when did i say anyone who disagrees with independence or whatever party is scum?  couldn't disagree more with that.

Edited May 5, 2017 by PapofGlencoe

[Haggis_trap]

I am pleasantly surprised - SNP vote has held up very well....

The clear shift has been from LAB -> TORY.

[aaid]

19 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

 

Spot on, we as a party have to ensure we do not isolate snp voters,, sturgeons posturing over brexit did exactly that to leave/snp/yes voters,, there was no regard for them,, hence the fall in support,, this had been gently bubbling under the surface since the 2015 GE... to me sturgeon had one political task and that was retain voters while gently gaining other.She has failed and i am actually mad at her handling of the whole situation. I watched an interview with AS and you could tell he was rattled...no amount af papering over the cracks can hide the difficulties we face,, sturgeon needs to step up

You really have tunnel vision mate.   So in your opinion, given the way the Brexit vote went both in Scotland and the UK overall, what should NS have done to keep the SNP/YES/Leave voters onside and not alienate the SNP/YES/REMAIN voters of who there were loads more?

There is no middle way here.

[Guest flumax]

OK so is it 7 seat less for snp as reported by BBC 

 

 

Or

31 more  as per guardian 

 

Or as I make it +6 

431 - 425

Eh? 

 

[ErsatzThistle]

3 minutes ago, flumax said:

OK so is it 7 seat less for snp as reported by BBC 

 

 

Or

31 more  as per guardian 

 

Or as I make it +6 

431 - 425

Eh? 

I honestly don't know but was wondering what they consider councillors who have either - 1) been elected as independents then joined a political party, 2) been a member of a political party and then become an independent, 3) councillors who have defected from one party to another - in the final reckoning. 

[Jersey Jim]

One of the most deprived areas in Scotland ( Ferguslie Park ) elect a Tory councillor, I'm beyond stunned at that. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Correction Phil - the overwhelming message overnight is that the Yoon voters are uniting more behind one party than two. The SNP vote share and seats remains solid. Some rejection of independence that?

[Guest flumax]

Clear win for the Tories (if you listen to media). 

18snp majority councils to 6. 431 seats to 276. 

The spin is going to be appalling 

[exile]

Someone on here (Alan?) once said of the SNP that nationalism is divisive and harmful and to be regretted because people stop caring about the policies and improving conditions for people on the ground, they just vote for the party who say's they're standing up for their country.

Well if that was true to any extent about the SNP, then surely it's now much more strongly evident about people voting Tory, as Theresa 'Boudicca' May is basically standing on a red, white and blue platform of 'up yours, Europe' (and Ruth of course on 'no you can't'). So...looking froward to expressions of regret about the Tory gains...?

Edited May 5, 2017 by exile

[exile]

Has anyone seen in any mainstream/unionist/London media, any explanation for what (or who) these pockets of Tory support in urban Scotland might signify?

[aaid]

18 minutes ago, flumax said:

OK so is it 7 seat less for snp as reported by BBC 

 

 

Or

31 more  as per guardian 

 

Or as I make it +6 

431 - 425

Eh? 

 

Because there have been boundary changes a straight comparison against 2012 wouldn't be fair so they try and work out what the 2012 results would like like under the current boundaries and then make a comparison based on that.

Clearly the methodologies used by the Guardian and BBC are very different 

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, flumax said:

Clear win for the Tories (if you listen to media). 

18snp majority councils to 6. 431 seats to 276. 

The spin is going to be appalling 

If you're going to complain about inaccurate spin then at least be accurate yourself.

The SNP are the *largest* party in 18 councils, no party has a majority in any council

[Caledonian Craig]

Nationalism has always been looked down upon as something dirty by unionist voters. However, the bare facts are that unionists are every bit nationalists as well. The only difference being they are nationalistic to Britain/UK.

[Ally Bongo]

If you go around with the sell of No to Independence and insinuate that SNP=IRA and Tories=Rangers it's blindingly obvious you are going to get a shed load of votes

[hampden_loon2878]

51 minutes ago, aaid said:

You really have tunnel vision mate.   So in your opinion, given the way the Brexit vote went both in Scotland and the UK overall, what should NS have done to keep the SNP/YES/Leave voters onside and not alienate the SNP/YES/REMAIN voters of who there were loads more?

There is no middle way here.

No thats one thing i do not have, tunnel vision.IMO instead of sturgeon popping up in other EU coutries grand standing ect. She should have came out and said that the party and scotland did not vote to leave and if we are not treated fairly we would hold the right to call a referendum. Time would then have done our work for us instead of her ramming it down everyones vote every other day,,, I honestly think shes directing us the other way from independence,,

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

She should have came out and said that the party and scotland did not vote to leave and if we are not treated fairly we would hold the right to call a referendum. Time would then have done our work for us instead of her ramming it down everyones vote every other day,

Sorry, but that's exactly what's she did.

[Caledonian Craig]

I think the SNP now need to look at ways to win more disenchanted Labour voters and those that voted leave in Brexit vote. If that means they move to aore neutral position on EU membership then so be it. If the SNP doesn't it risks (like Tory and Labour on independence stance) risks disqualifying itself from gaining votes from certain type of voters.

[Guest flumax]

Other metrics of failure. 

SNP largest by 31 seats in 2012, 155 2017

56% more seats than conservatives

Rise in 0.5% of total seats 

 

 

[Guest flumax]

Can someone explain also why 27% labour in England leads to derision for Corbyn and labour, yet 22% tory in Scotland is lauded as being wonderful? 

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, flumax said:

Can someone explain also why 27% labour in England leads to derision for Corbyn and labour, yet 22% tory in Scotland is lauded as being wonderful? 

Mainly because Labour used to be stronger across the UK whilst Tories use to be weaker in Scotland.

[hampden_loon2878]

23 minutes ago, aaid said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what's she did.

Mo she got impatient,, the dust should have been allowed to settle 

[aaid]

Brian Taylor going a bit off message on Reporting Scotland right now.  

Whats all this "the SNP are the clear winners" nonsense.,

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Mo she got impatient,, the dust should have been allowed to settle 

Sorry but look at it logically.

The Brexit vote (biggest UK issue voted on for decades) and it was to see Scots vote to remain but get taken out of Europe anyway. If the SNP had not taken such a golden opportunity to press for a referendum then they could never have done it. Can you imagine asking for a referendum in the future say 5 to 10 years down the line using something far more trivial as a reason. The No sayers would reject it saying you were okay with Brexit so don't use this trivial matter (whatever it may be) as an excuse.

[Ally Bongo]

10 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Mo she got impatient,, the dust should have been allowed to settle 

She is playing a blinder

The SNP won more seats today than 2012

All we are seeing is confirmation of the denouement of the Union