Guest BlueGaz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Alan said: The best bit is SNP standing "shoulder to shoulder" with Tories in debates and outside Holyrood. No comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Just now, BlueGaz said: my only point was I believe it is related. And you'd be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, Alan said: Off to stand outside a polling station in Glasgow for 6 hours with some SNP RemaIN brethren. Hoping they have left their Rock Steady high viz jackets at home. Better together. Standing shoulder to shoulder I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 During the Independence referendum I cited Alan Johnson as the only person who I'd heard put forward a convincing argument for a No vote. Again, he's excellent here: http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/why-i-am-voting-leave-by-professor-alan-johnson/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Judging by the comments to Nicola's Facebook and Twitter posts there are a lot of unhappy SNP members There was absolutely no need for the SNP to take such a prominent role in this referendum They could have simply said that they favoured a remain vote without letting their narcissism encourage them going on national debates By doing so they have most likely knived the chances of our own Independence in the back I too have been taken aback by the numbers of people i have spoke to that are saying they are voting Leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 15 minutes ago, Scunnered said: During the Independence referendum I cited Alan Johnson as the only person who I'd heard put forward a convincing argument for a No vote. Again, he's excellent here: http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/why-i-am-voting-leave-by-professor-alan-johnson/ Thought he was excellent on C4 last night. He should really have featured more prominently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 SNP were in a lose/lose situation IMO. They're a pro-European party meaning supporting Leave was never an option. Sitting on their hands would also have seen them accused of giving right-wingers an easy run at an EU exit. The party had to back up it's pro-European credentials IMO. But even from an independence point of view, the best tactical play was to help secure a strong Scottish Remain vote in order to maximise leverage if/when UK votes Leave. Supporting Leave would have been a disaster for the SNP IMO and it would have been completely unacceptable for the party to sit on its hands. If members are unhappy about party position on EU, they should have done something long before now. This referendum was always going to be a difficult one for the SNP but the best "out" was to support a strong Scottish EU vote to Remain as it is consistent with indyref position and leaves the party with most options regardless of the result today. Absolutely staggering to think the SNP shouldn't have support Remain or should have sat on it's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Auld_Reekie said: SNP were in a lose/lose situation IMO. They're a pro-European party meaning supporting Leave was never an option. Sitting on their hands would also have seen them accused of giving right-wingers an easy run at an EU exit. The party had to back up it's pro-European credentials IMO. But even from an independence point of view, the best tactical play was to help secure a strong Scottish Remain vote in order to maximise leverage if/when UK votes Leave. Supporting Leave would have been a disaster for the SNP IMO and it would have been completely unacceptable for the party to sit on its hands. If members are unhappy about party position on EU, they should have done something long before now. This referendum was always going to be a difficult one for the SNP but the best "out" was to support a strong Scottish EU vote to Remain as it is consistent with indyref position and leaves the party with most options regardless of the result today. Absolutely staggering to think the SNP shouldn't have support Remain or should have sat on it's hands. This. Given that the SNP's core message has been Independence in Europe for decades now, why are people surprised? I'm generally sceptical about people posting on the Internet and who call into radio phone ins claiming to be a supporter of a party who is on one side of an argument, then vehemently oppose that viewpoint. I think they are at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 27 minutes ago, aaid said: I think they are at it. Can you not support a party purely on the fact that they are the best party at that particular time to run the country? But disagree with some of their major policies? How many people vote for / support the SNP but would always vote NO? I think there will be quite a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Final Ipsos MORI poll 52% remain 48% leave J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Just now, BlueGaz said: Can you not support a party purely on the fact that they are the best party at that particular time to run the country? But disagree with some of their major policies? How many people vote for / support the SNP but would always vote NO? I think there will be quite a few. Its entirely possible and I've no doubt that there are people who feel like that but it's the "and I'll never vote for them again" that gives the game away. If this issue is so important to you, why would you vote for a party that has the opposing view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Noticed that the best odds on Remain have gone from 1/4 to 1/7 in the past couple of hours. Leave was 3/1, it's now 11/2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: Can you not support a party purely on the fact that they are the best party at that particular time to run the country? But disagree with some of their major policies? How many people vote for / support the SNP but would always vote NO? I think there will be quite a few. Yes you can I couldn't tell you much about their policies but the SNP are the biggest pro independence party so they get my vote to help them grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, vanderark14 said: I couldn't tell you much about their policies Mix between New Labour and Conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, aaid said: Its entirely possible and I've no doubt that there are people who feel like that but it's the "and I'll never vote for them again" that gives the game away. If this issue is so important to you, why would you vote for a party that has the opposing view? Because you don't have to agree with all their policies. Best of bad bunch? Personally, I didn't see this referendum coming a couple of years ago, and being in/out of EU wasn't an issue for me, so wouldn't vote for a party for that reason, or even take it into account. Now this ref is here, I will vote, but not because of any parties stance, for my own reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Noticed that the best odds on Remain have gone from 1/4 to 1/7 in the past couple of hours. Leave was 3/1, it's now 11/2... Interesting. I read online that although there will be no exit polls some banks have commissioned private polls - if the £ starts making significant moves one way or the other in early trading on the Asian markets that might signify what those polls are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Yes you can I couldn't tell you much about their policies but the SNP are the biggest pro independence party so they get my vote to help them grow. Which is great and my point. If you are voting today, is your choice purely because you vote SNP and you will adopt their stance, or is it because you have made your own mind up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, neilser said: Interesting. I read online that although there will be no exit polls some banks have commissioned private polls - if the £ starts making significant moves one way or the other in early trading on the Asian markets that might signify what those polls are saying. Why no exit polls? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, BlueGaz said: Which is great and my point. If you are voting today, is your choice purely because you vote SNP and you will adopt their stance, or is it because you have made your own mind up? my own mind has been made up, I seem to be going against the grain for my home town. Everyone seems to want to leave because of the fishing industry but I will be voting remain. My vote has nothing to with the SNP despite their pro european stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) On 20/06/2016 at 4:04 PM, Scunnered said: 2 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said: Why no exit polls? J Not sure of the reason - there's going to be some form of follow up survey by one of the pollsters of their panel of voters that'll show whether the way they voted changed from what they previously said but that's about it. Edit: fecking multiquote thing doing my heid in Edited June 23, 2016 by neilser quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, neilser said: Interesting. I read online that although there will be no exit polls some banks have commissioned private polls - if the £ starts making significant moves one way or the other in early trading on the Asian markets that might signify what those polls are saying. Similar to the Indyref, no need for exit polls, they will know. Remember the statement as the polls closed that Cameron had been informed of a 10 point victory? Edited June 23, 2016 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Similar to the Indyref, no need for exit polls, they will know. Remember the statement as the polls closed that Cameron had been informed of a 10 point victory? And the real reason is that John Curtice and mates - who put together the exit polls - have no previous EU referendums on which to base their methodology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The only real question of interest is whether rUK, or more specifically England, have been kept in the EU thanks to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. About to get very tasty if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86glebestreet Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 35 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: Which is great and my point. If you are voting today, is your choice purely because you vote SNP and you will adopt their stance, or is it because you have made your own mind up? My pal lived in Europe for 25 years and thought it was great, been home a few years now,he is a big SNP supporter, worked really hard for them during independence referendum, when he told his brother he was voting leave he was told you can't vote leave as it is not the SNP stance, they have fallen out with each other now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braveheart_lynch Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Is a Scottish Leave vote so unlikely? It's assumed it will be the Scottish vote that helps keep the UK in but interesting if that's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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