antidote Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, Larky Masher said: My truth is that your opinion is unequivocally wrong. Only my opinion. "UK families most heavily taxed in developed world" http://citywire.co.uk/money/uk-families-most-heavily-taxed-in-developed-world/a574175 Of course another biased piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Lamia said: All I have done throughout this thread is ask you to demonstrate your claim. There was nothing to forget or keep up with because you simply haven't done the only think I have been repeatedly asking. It's not his claim it's his truth............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 8 minutes ago, Larky Masher said: It's not his claim it's his truth............... See many of my comments for evidence. Still no proof of your truth yet. Please no quotes to direct taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, antidote said: Only my opinion. "UK families most heavily taxed in developed world" http://citywire.co.uk/money/uk-families-most-heavily-taxed-in-developed-world/a574175 Of course another biased piece. It is another biased piece from this source and some of the comments on the page even disagree with the content. I'm sorry but you really don't have a scooby about how to assess the robustness of article or what meaningful data is you're simply flailing around posting random nonsense from any source that supports your "truth". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, Lamia said: All I have done throughout this thread is ask you to demonstrate your claim. There was nothing to forget or keep up with because you simply haven't done the only think I have been repeatedly asking. "See Pool Q's post. I was asking you to justify that quote which made no reference to direct or indirect taxation." A tax is a tax no matter how it is worded and I did say many times that use indirect taxes too. I have given you many example of higher taxes and specific taxes that are higher. Even though income tax is lower in the uk the hidden stealth taxes and a lot of other taxes are much higher in the uk. If there is an actual table out there that shows the uk has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other country in the developed world then I would show it, but as I suspect you already knew that. As you also know and as I said before, there are reams of data out there and it would take an army of civil servants to decipher it all. You should also know that taxing a population, or not actually calling it a tax, but...is a dark art full of smoke and mirrors which westminster is fully adapt at. To be honest I don't even know if national insurance is included in the calculations on income tax. I'm assuming it is. So you'll have to make do with many of the links to show you that many individual uk taxes like property taxes, excise, APD ect. are the highest in the world. You could also look at the many links to articles where people, who much more learned than me, are saying the exact same, the uk has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other developed country in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 19 minutes ago, Larky Masher said: It is another biased piece from this source and some of the comments on the page even disagree with the content. I'm sorry but you really don't have a scooby about how to assess the robustness of article or what meaningful data is you're simply flailing around posting random nonsense from any source that supports your "truth". Again another article you do not believe. Still not proven your truth and I have said it is my opinion, you were the one that claimed the "truth" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, antidote said: Again another article you do not believe. Still not proven your truth and I have said it is my opinion, you were the one that claimed the "truth" This source is from a Christian organisation that is anti-abortion, anti-gambling, anti-assumed consent for organ donation, anti-compulsory sex education and anti-same sex marriage, but maybe they don't have an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 26 minutes ago, Larky Masher said: This source is from a Christian organisation that is anti-abortion, anti-gambling, anti-assumed consent for organ donation, anti-compulsory sex education and anti-same sex marriage, but maybe they don't have an agenda. anti-assumed consent shouldn't be in that list. I hate assumed consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Larky Masher said: This source is from a Christian organisation that is anti-abortion, anti-gambling, anti-assumed consent for organ donation, anti-compulsory sex education and anti-same sex marriage, but maybe they don't have an agenda. Are they, along with the rest of the other reports, anti uk government? You gave 2 examples of the uk having lower taxes, income tax and VAT out of a big list of uk taxes, then stopped there and you call that the truth. Here are just some of the uk taxes. List taken from the IFS. National Insurance contributions, Value added tax, Fuel duties, Tobacco duties, Alcohol duties, Betting and gaming duties, Vehicle excise duty, Air passenger duty, Insurance premium tax, Landfill tax, Climate change levy, Aggregates levy, Customs duties, Capital gains tax, Inheritance tax, Stamp duty land tax, Stamp duty on shares, Company taxes, Corporation tax, Petroleum revenue tax, Business rates, Bank levy, Council tax, Net taxes and National Insurance contributions, Interest and dividends. Now you'll claim that a lot of these taxes are paid by companies etc. but you'll understand, I'm sure, that these costs are passed onto the customer. That's what indirect taxes are. Income tax in the uk being 'mid table' at the moment, could change in a moment if Osborne can't get his deficit down. Or if Corbyn/Dugdale get into power in the next elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 45 minutes ago, antidote said: "See Pool Q's post. I was asking you to justify that quote which made no reference to direct or indirect taxation." A tax is a tax no matter how it is worded and I did say many times that use indirect taxes too. I have given you many example of higher taxes and specific taxes that are higher. Even though income tax is lower in the uk the hidden stealth taxes and a lot of other taxes are much higher in the uk. If there is an actual table out there that shows the uk has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other country in the developed world then I would show it, but as I suspect you already knew that. As you also know and as I said before, there are reams of data out there and it would take an army of civil servants to decipher it all. You should also know that taxing a population, or not actually calling it a tax, but...is a dark art full of smoke and mirrors which westminster is fully adapt at. To be honest I don't even know if national insurance is included in the calculations on income tax. I'm assuming it is. So you'll have to make do with many of the links to show you that many individual uk taxes like property taxes, excise, APD ect. are the highest in the world. You could also look at the many links to articles where people, who much more learned than me, are saying the exact same, the uk has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other developed country in the world. Lots of words still no answer though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Capitalism is just legalised theft.no surprise that the 'thiefs' go to any ends to protect their interests. Umpteen pages of debating about the crumbs on the table,nobody seems to have noticed the real issue is some knuts fkuded off with the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 The CARE research is talking about single earner families. I don't see anything wrong with their findings. Quote The Taxation of families – International Comparisons 2014 Our latest tax report examines how UK families on various incomes fare in the tax and benefits system compared with their counterparts from the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). Using the latest OECD data (2014) the report demonstrates that families in the UK are still getting a raw deal. http://www.care.org.uk/our-causes/marriage-and-family/family-and-tax/resources#Tax 2014 Key Findings Yet again, CARE’s ninth tax report demonstrates that the tax burden on one-earner married couples on the average wage is considerably higher in the UK than in the rest of the OECD. At the OECD average wage for the UK (£35,633) one-earner married couples with children paid 25 per cent more in tax than the OECD average. Single parents with two children paid 17 per cent more. The unfavourable position of one-earner families results from the fact that UK income tax does not take account of marriage or family responsibilities. By contrast, the tax burden on single people without family responsibilities is lower than OECD and EU averages. The report also highlights the fact many one-earner families are trapped in poverty as a result of astonishingly high effective marginal tax rates. At the moment, families on 75 per cent and 50 per cent of the average UK wage, key income points at which we should be encouraging aspiration, face marginal tax rates of 73 per cent – the highest in the world. The report provides evidence to show this EMTR will actually increase when Universal credit is introduced (most likely in April 2017) to the eye-wateringly high figure of 76 per cent. In the conclusion, CARE makes the case for increasing the marriage tax allowance to help hard-working families and to bring down the marginal rates. At the moment, the marriage tax allowance is just 10 per cent. The report makes the case for it to be increased to a fully transferable allowance. Additional policy responses are found within the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 12 minutes ago, thplinth said: The CARE research is talking about single earner families. I don't see anything wrong with their findings. Their analysis is influenced by their pro-family stance so it's not free from bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 12 hours ago, phart said: anti-assumed consent shouldn't be in that list. I hate assumed consent. I thought this was a rather medieval rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 The CARE research and conclusions look absolutely fine to me. They are analyzing the OECD published data and making the point that the UK tax system is particularly unfair on single earner families. (They seem to value 'families' based on their Christian beliefs, the utter khunts. There is no consideration of VAT I see.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 15 minutes ago, thplinth said: The CARE research and conclusions look absolutely fine to me. They are analyzing the OECD published data and making the point that the UK tax system is particularly unfair on single earner families. (They seem to value 'families' based on their Christian beliefs, the utter khunts. There is no consideration of VAT I see.) But as they are lobbying for special treatment for single earner families their analysis would show that. There maybe some areas where groups have a higher tax burden such as heavy drinkers and smokers and their choice to do that is just a valid as families who make the choice to only have one parent working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Anyhoo , Panama ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 9 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said: Anyhoo , Panama ? Their hats are shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Now thats on topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 12 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said: Now thats on topic... The canal is marvel of engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 On 4/17/2016 at 10:26 PM, Lamia said: Lots of words still no answer though Here is fewer words for you. The uk has the highest tax burden in the developed world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 28 minutes ago, antidote said: Here is fewer words for you. The uk has the highest tax burden in the developed world. Here are fewer words for you. That's pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Is... Is it time to burn the ruling class yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I see anonymous are posting lots of stuff about the papers on there Facebook page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 They should release the Panama Papers, let the crowd parse the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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