Religion In Football; Good Or Bad?

[Fermer]

Spot on.

Agree. Met Scott Brown in bar last year and had a great wee chat. But to be honest I would have done same if I had met Neil Lennon. But bigots will always be bigots.

[Guest flumax]

Good post too. But is the answer just blowing in the wind as john lennon wrote?

the march of time and societal attitudes will do it.

[Fermer]

the march of time and societal attitudes will do it.

well thats 2000 years and counting!! I just dont think it will flumax. I think its a matter of how we cope. Variety is spice of life as they say. religious leaders from all faiths should be doing more imo to get it sorted. And football clubs because they do become vehicles.

And why has nobody dived in yet on the john lennon hook??? Disappointed.

[Guest flumax]

well thats 2000 years and counting!! I just dont think it will flumax.

don't think it is 2000 years, it's more like 70, the role of religion and status is being chipped away. Before that there was little challenge to my historically illiterate mind

[Goozay]

If football songs are just "sticks and stones and all that" why is anything racist not tolerated any more?

I'm just old enough to remember a minority of fans monkey chanting at black players, previously it would have been more prevelant and tolerated, now its unthinkable in Scotland and England.

The Wee Hate Jimmy Hill chant also has not dated well. I can't imagine Scotland fans singing about a Pantomime Villan by calling them a "poof" today.

Attitudes to what is acceptable/tolerable/normal change, many things have an impact on that change. The authorities and clubs have a significant role to play and have royally shat it when taking on bigotted or sectarian chants.

[deecie]

Stand Free (from religion).

Wherever you may be.

[bonzo]

Stand Free (from religion).

Wherever you may be.

hallelujah tae that

[Haggis McBasher]

Op is raging that they can't sing bigoted songs ?

Those songs were always outlawed btw, before this offensive behaviour bill. That was just created to even up the numbers of Celtic and rangers fans being arrested. Let's not pretend otherwise

[calimero]

I get annoyed by people alluding to religious bigotry at the Fitba as a Scottish problem.In my opinion its a peculiarly Irish problem. Until immigrants to Scotland from both north and south of the emerald isle decided to give us the gift of involvement in their own particular struggles, im pretty sure most of the West of Scotland couldn't give a flying funk that King Billy won a battle or that 'Sean South did indeed hail from Garryowen. Unfortunately there were enough Neanderthals on both sides to buy into this narrative and use the very limited information they possessed as an excuse to batter the sh1t out of each other at every available opportunity whilst the men behind the wire and the hands across the water back in the Ould Country carried on with their protection rackets and general gangsterism. Sadly they managed to brainwash too many of the more dim-witted persuasion to continue what they began in the guise of the Old Firm. I think that its only when the hordes who catch the ferry or fly over from Ireland every weekend and pitch up at Ibrox or Parkheid are encouraged to go and support their own local teams and gie the rest of us peace that we will make any progress in this area.

[Eisegerwind]

OK, I'll go for it and answer the OP original question. Good. Got to love the banter. Can't wait for the IS caliphate to get a league going (thanks to Frankie Boyle for the idea). Imagine the banter on Euro nights.

[neilly71]

I get annoyed by people alluding to religious bigotry at the Fitba as a Scottish problem.In my opinion its a peculiarly Irish problem. Until immigrants to Scotland from both north and south of the emerald isle decided to give us the gift of involvement in their own particular struggles, im pretty sure most of the West of Scotland couldn't give a flying funk that King Billy won a battle or that 'Sean South did indeed hail from Garryowen. Unfortunately there were enough Neanderthals on both sides to buy into this narrative and use the very limited information they possessed as an excuse to batter the sh1t out of each other at every available opportunity whilst the men behind the wire and the hands across the water back in the Ould Country carried on with their protection rackets and general gangsterism. Sadly they managed to brainwash too many of the more dim-witted persuasion to continue what they began in the guise of the Old Firm. I think that its only when the hordes who catch the ferry or fly over from Ireland every weekend and pitch up at Ibrox or Parkheid are encouraged to go and support their own local teams and gie the rest of us peace that we will make any progress in this area.

Oh dear, there were more anti catholic societies in Glasgow at one point than actual Catholics. I think you're kidding yourself on a wee bit. The backlash against Irish Catholic immigrants from indigenous Scots was what led to segregated schooling in the first place. Scotland would be a better place for being rid of all intolerance, that goes without saying but to blame it all on the Irish of both religious persuasions is wrong.

[Eisegerwind]

I get annoyed by people alluding to religious bigotry at the Fitba as a Scottish problem.In my opinion its a peculiarly Irish problem. Until immigrants to Scotland from both north and south of the emerald isle decided to give us the gift of involvement in their own particular struggles, im pretty sure most of the West of Scotland couldn't give a flying funk that King Billy won a battle or that 'Sean South did indeed hail from Garryowen. Unfortunately there were enough Neanderthals on both sides to buy into this narrative and use the very limited information they possessed as an excuse to batter the sh1t out of each other at every available opportunity whilst the men behind the wire and the hands across the water back in the Ould Country carried on with their protection rackets and general gangsterism. Sadly they managed to brainwash too many of the more dim-witted persuasion to continue what they began in the guise of the Old Firm. I think that its only when the hordes who catch the ferry or fly over from Ireland every weekend and pitch up at Ibrox or Parkheid are encouraged to go and support their own local teams and gie the rest of us peace that we will make any progress in this area.

Oh dear, there were more anti catholic societies in Glasgow at one point than actual Catholics. I think you're kidding yourself on a wee bit. The backlash against Irish Catholic immigrants from indigenous Scots was what led to segregated schooling in the first place. Scotland would be a better place for being rid of all intolerance, that goes without saying but to blame it all on the Irish of both religious persuasions is wrong.

Yes, a little bit naive, we, the Scots have been very naughty in the past. Kinda hoped that when we became independent we could face up to some of that stuff. We aren't, so lets just keep saying it's someones else's fault, bad British Empire.

[Fermer]

Yes, a little bit naive, we, the Scots have been very naughty in the past. Kinda hoped that when we became independent we could face up to some of that stuff. We aren't, so lets just keep saying it's someones else's fault, bad British Empire.

Aye. we do tend to blame everything and everyone else. Anyway, kareoke on tonight in black bitch. Going to sing high hopes. That should be our national anthem. Thanks for comments guys there were good ones but we are tartan army, mental and barmy. Have good weekend.

[aaid]

Haha! Brilliant revisionism. Neil Lennon is an Irish Catholic Nationalist. A lot of Rangers fans hated him for this, don't kid yourself on. Scott Brown is the same kind of in your face player that Lennon was and whilst a lot of supporters from a liot of teams hate him in the same way they hated Lennon ( but deep down secretly wished they played for their teams) Funny how Brown, so far has managed to escape numerous death threats, assaults and letter bombs.

First of all the stuff Lennon got with the bullets and all that was way beyond the pale and all of that stuff was almost certainly motivated by sectarianism.

That said Martin o'Neill was/is an Northern Irish Catholic Nationalist like Lennon and a much better and more successful manager than Lennon was and yet I don't recall him getting any where near the amount of "general" abuse that Lennon got. I also recall Lennon being pretty unpopular with fans of other teams, in particular I remember him making up stories about Aberdeen fans throwing coffee at him at Tynecastle.

Maybe he was just an arsehole?

Personally I've no time for either of them but my dislike of Neil Lennon goes back to when he was a nasty wee nark at Leicester and as far as O'Neill is concerned it goes back to when he was manager at Wycombe.

[DaveyDenoon]

I spent years on the terraces praying...usually for an equaliser. On the balance of probablilities if there is a God, he can't be that interested in football.

And if he is he certainly doesn't support Scotland!

[Flora MaDonald]

My ornage pals like singing about the Boyne. But I like like singing about Wallace and Bruce. So they question me on that and its a hard one.

Why is it a hard one? You are singing about heroes from your own country - your pals are not (unless they are Northern Irish or Dutch pals).

[Cove_Sheep]

First of all the stuff Lennon got with the bullets and all that was way beyond the pale and all of that stuff was almost certainly motivated by sectarianism.

That said Martin o'Neill was/is an Northern Irish Catholic Nationalist like Lennon and a much better and more successful manager than Lennon was and yet I don't recall him getting any where near the amount of "general" abuse that Lennon got. I also recall Lennon being pretty unpopular with fans of other teams, in particular I remember him making up stories about Aberdeen fans throwing coffee at him at Tynecastle.

Maybe he was just an arsehole?

Personally I've no time for either of them but my dislike of Neil Lennon goes back to when he was a nasty wee nark at Leicester and as far as O'Neill is concerned it goes back to when he was manager at Wycombe.

He also complained of sectarian abuse when someone chucked an Aberdeen scarf at him during a game at Pittodrie.

[Fermer]

Why is it a hard one? You are singing about heroes from your own country - your pals are not (unless they are Northern Irish or Dutch pals).

Hi pal. But it all depends on which country you think you stay in. And who was king of that (including us) country which the Dutch lad was. As was was de bruce. Thats why its a hard one. Arguments on all sides there I am afraid. Good to have the arguments though. Spoke about it in black bitch last night and there is no easy answer. I think let them sing what they like. We (Scotland certainly do). Mostly fun songs right enough. Still hate do a deer lol. Was it not ironic the billy king scores winner on debut? And celtic fans were laughing at that last nite, the way it should be. Remember eveyones hero is another guys terrorist. Wallace.

[phart]

. Until immigrants to Scotland from both north and south of the emerald isle decided to give us the gift of involvement in their own particular struggles, im pretty sure most of the West of Scotland couldn't give a flying funk that King Billy won a battle or that 'Sean South did indeed hail from Garryowen.

In the early 14th Century Robert the Bruce Brother Edward invaded Ireland and proclaimed himself it's high King in an attempt to open up two fronts against the English.

[Fermer]

In the early 14th Century Robert the Bruce Brother Edward invaded Ireland and proclaimed himself it's high King in an attempt to open up two fronts against the English.

Correct. And see how that ended. We are as guilty as any other nation. But as good as good as well. The Scots are a nation of great inventors, warriors etc etc. We have our faults. But still best country in the world imo!!! I think I can sum my point up to freedom. And freedom of speech. Who cares if other clubs fans sing songs which we dont like? I would rather go to a match where two sets of fans were singing against each other than sitting with a bovril and speaking about the weather.

[phart]

The question is asked wrong though, religion is in people not football. People then go to football. Same with politics, it's inherent in people, so you can't remove it from situations.

Your post creates a false dichotomy though, as if those were the only two options when in fact a multitude exist.

[Fermer]

The question is asked wrong though, religion is in people not football. People then go to football. Same with politics, it's inherent in people, so you can't remove it from situations.

Your post creates a false dichotomy though, as if those were the only two options when in fact a multitude exist.

I know that. Just trying to stick to the football part as this is a football board. Football does create a social area where people do voice their opinions (good and bad). We cant create a new Scotland where there is no religion. And at games especially old firm this is exarterbated (no an English teacher!). We in TA know that religion shouldnt come in to football. But it does. Just wondering whether it is worse than singing about sheep**** b****s. Or any other chants against oppostion fans.

[neilly71]

Yes, a little bit naive, we, the Scots have been very naughty in the past. Kinda hoped that when we became independent we could face up to some of that stuff. We aren't, so lets just keep saying it's someones else's fault, bad British Empire.

The British Empire have had their own part to play in using religion to turn people against one another.

[Squirrelhumper]

Neil Lennon was primarily disliked because he came across as a bit of an arse, rather than anything religious. In my opinion.

Religion shouldn't come into football.

Of course he was.

[dandydunn]

I don't practice my religion.

Neil Lennon is a khunt.

WTF is black bitch??