biffer Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just goes to show you here, why the X-factor (reality TV) always trumps documentaries in the mind of the masses. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll give a pass to anyone reacting to that picture though. I almost commented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow jock Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Back on topic - this could (probably will) be very complicated for (NATO), although now hearing it may have been brought down by Rebels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll be amazed if the thread can recover from that picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Vlad now saying that the actions of those who shot down the plane are a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists. So, that calm response thing is out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll give a pass to anyone reacting to that picture though. I almost commented. Phew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Vlad now saying that the actions of those who shot down the plane are a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists. So, that calm response thing is out the window. Also saying he can absolutely prove it never entered Turkish airspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Vlad now saying that the actions of those who shot down the plane are a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists. So, that calm response thing is out the window. As long as they're talking though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Both pilots killed apparently. According to the bastion of all news (BBC), one is on the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Also saying he can absolutely prove it never entered Turkish airspace. Yep i believe it. If the Turks shot this plane down in Syrian airspace (and I expect they will have) that seems a lot like an act of war to me. Coupled with the sponsorship of ISIS on the ground and the unbelievable atrocities committed by ISIS you wonder at what point something is going snap. And we would go to war to defend these ratbags? right off. But that is what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peever1745 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Did you run out of boot polish for your hands Peever? No my father was white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Putin - "...significant consequences including for relations between Russia and Turkey." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey. Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists. Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe. We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours. Do they want to make Nato serve ISIS? I understand that every state has its own regional interests and we’ve always respected that, but we will never allow the kind of crime that happened to today to take place. And of course we hope that the international community will find the strength to come together and fight against the common evil.- Putin. Edited November 24, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Turkey said they were going to join in the fight against Isis but basically they are using the whole thing as cover to attack the Kurds, the PKK to be more specific. The recent bombing in Turkey was in a Kurdish area and some have suggested that Turkey itself was behind it. Throw in the booing of the minute's silence for the Paris victims and uou don't have an impression of an ally, more of a bunch of devious nutters. NATO should drop Turkey from their plans and use Kurdistan as their base in that area, and while we're at it, the UK should send arms directly to the Kurds to assist them with their highly successful fight against Isis - any arms channeled via Baghdad don't reach the Kurds. Kurdistan is the Scotland of that area - oil rich (only being developed now, but they have masses of the stuff) but held back by Iraq. They will be independent in a few years. They trade with the Turks but they know never to trust them (nor will they ever trust the rest of Iraq). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Not entirely new though...... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/nato-chief-jens-stoltenberg-russia-turkish-airspace-violations-syria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just goes to show you here, why the X-factor (reality TV) always trumps documentaries in the mind of the masses. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. So said phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Let's not forget it's a standard practice of the Russian military to push other people's airspace and maritime boundaries. They do it with us all the time - there's a sub suspected in Scottish waters currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 People in Russia are already suspicious about the true origins of the bomb that blew up their airliner. Now with this they are really going to smell a rat. If I was Russian I would be feeling seriously aggrieved right now. It was one thing when it was just propoganda attacks but I don't think they can not respond to this. What I would like to see is condemnation of Turkey by the other NATO members and the expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They are actively using their membership to start wars not prevent them. Get them to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Seeing as Scunnered is apparently a no voting quisling, does anyone know if it is MI5 or GCHQ he works for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 People in Russia are already suspicious about the true origins of the bomb that blew up their airliner. Now with this they are really going to smell a rat. If I was Russian I would be feeling seriously aggrieved right now. It was one thing when it was just propoganda attacks but I don't think they can not respond to this. What I would like to see is condemnation of Turkey by the other NATO members and the expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They are actively using their membership to start wars not prevent them. Get them to ######. The problem you have there is that Russia would start trying to push Turkey's border very, very hard, as well as trying to push ships through the Bosphorus without permission. If Turkey ended up falling under Russian influence, that'd be the whole middle east in their purview, which would lead to a massively militant Israel deliberately starting a war to draw the US back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Seeing as Scunnered is apparently a no voting quisling, does anyone know if it is MI5 or GCHQ he works for? C&A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 With the Sharm plane bombing and now this - you can't help think someone badly wants the Russians involved and for the wrong reasons (right if you're a terrorist). I would not be surprised to hear the latter incident was not the Turks, but maybe rebels (maybe this has already been confirmed one way of the other, i dunno). This has now got so many cross political complications it's frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Seeing as Scunnered is apparently a no voting quisling, does anyone know if it is MI5 or GCHQ he works for? I was in the KGB when I was a boy, true story. I had a hat and everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I was in the KGB when I was a boy, true story. I had a hat and everything! Meh - I was a Warlord. Badge, Wallet, secret documents - the lot..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 C&A When I first read Coves post I was actually going to post "C&A", great minds and all that! ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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