People V Carmichael 9 Nov 2015

[Scunnered]

Meh. I just find that (ultimately) meaningless.

How do you see the world working in your view.

Who is running the show and how? (I am up for it, if it is fair etc)

The short answer. Me.

The long answer:

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/socialism/socialism.html

Best enjoyed with a mocha and a custard cream

His desired masters in London. By economically holding Scotland back and systematically lying to the Scottish public.

Weesht Mcglashan! Adults are talking!

[thplinth]

I don t want to be the party pooper here but Communism murdered in its 1st incarnation 50million people ( I chose a middle figure for the sake of discussion).

It starts off all 'yaaaay lets make the world ace and perfect... and then morphs into 'hmmmm we need yous lot to be dead to make it ace and perfect. Sorry byyyyyye.

[Scunnered]

I don t want to be the party pooper here but Communism murdered in its 1st incarnation 50million people ( I chose a middle figure for the sake of discussion).

It starts off all 'yaaaay lets make the world ace and perfect... and then morphs into 'hmmmm we need yous lot to be dead to make it ace and perfect. Sorry byyyyyye.

Ooooh! This looks like a fun game! I wonder if anyone has attempted to calculate the death toll of capitalism? I'll need to find out. I'll stick a conservative estimate in of... 300,000,000.

[thplinth]

Capitalism is a word that is used a lot.

I agree as do we all - it is shit.

The question here is Mr S. (only given your history)

What is your alternative?

Don't be all Jeremy. Dont be all SNP currency...

Just tell us.

Edited December 9, 2015 by thplinth

[MacWalka]

Capitalism is a word that is used a lot.

I agree as do we all - it is shit.

The question here is Mr S. (only given your history)

What is your alternative?

Don't be all Jeremy. Dont be all SNP currency...

Just tell us.

Capitalism isn't the problem and neither is communism. Humans that are utter s are the problem and they'll leverage whatever system is in place for their goals.

[antidote]

The short answer. Me.

The long answer:

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/socialism/socialism.html

Best enjoyed with a mocha and a custard cream

Weesht Mcglashan! Adults are talking!

Whoooaaaaah..adults. More like adult citizen Smith.

[antidote]

Tomorrows National says it all really.

https://twitter.com/ScotNational

[thplinth]

When I say Independence I am clear as I can be, it could at first be left... then right... or a big orgy of left and right... or who the fukk knows. But I am honest about that. You lefties have all the answers yet you have no vision of your future. I don't get you? My vision of where independence may go may be flawed (whose isn't) but your of where labour will go is non existent. Get your act together!

[kumnio]

I don t want to be the party pooper here but Communism murdered in its 1st incarnation 50million people ( I chose a middle figure for the sake of discussion).

It starts off all 'yaaaay lets make the world ace and perfect... and then morphs into 'hmmmm we need yous lot to be dead to make it ace and perfect. Sorry byyyyyye.

Cmon now, communism didnt kill anyone, nor has capitalism, although Id say capitalism is far more dangerous.

Both are ideas, its people who implement them that cause the damage. Communism is a great theory, pity it cant be implemented.

[thplinth]

I am not comfortable with being right or left. I am independent.

[Auld_Reekie]

Im probably a mix of both. Lean left on some issues, lean slightly to right on other. Probably more left than right though. Who gives a f***? Elect reasonably good people, in a moderately sound political system and we'd be in a far better position than we are now regardless of what box you want to put them in. Most importantly: limit their power.

[Orraloon]

Im probably a mix of both. Lean left on some issues, lean slightly to right on other. Probably more left than right though. Who gives a f***? Elect reasonably good people, in a moderately sound political system and we'd be in a far better position than we are now regardless of what box you want to put them in. Most importantly: limit their power.

I don't think politicians have nearly as much power as most folk seem to think.

[Auld_Reekie]

I don't think politicians have nearly as much power as most folk seem to think.

Regardless of how much, or how little, you think they have, the best thing we could do is give them even less. Power needs to move from the top to the bottom. From intra-national agencies, to national governments, to devolved governments, to councils, to community councils, etc, etc. More countries, more councils, more community councils. More people with less power, equals less people with more power.

[andymac]

Regardless of how much, or how little, you think they have, the best thing we could do is give them even less. Power needs to move from the top to the bottom. From intra-national agencies, to national governments, to devolved governments, to councils, to community councils, etc, etc. More countries, more councils, more community councils. More people with less power, equals less people with more power.

Are you George Osborne? ;-)

[Auld_Reekie]

That's probably the most offensive and insulting thing anyone has ever said to me.

[andymac]

That's probably the most offensive and insulting thing anyone has ever said to me.

I'll be getting banned after you report me then.

[Scunnered]

My vision of where independence may go may be flawed (whose isn't) but your of where labour will go is non existent. Get your act together!

Woah woah woah! How come your vision just gets to be flawed and mines is non existent? . You have one immediate thing standing in the way of your goal, Westminster. I have two, Westminster and Holyrood. The most obvious vehicle for your goal is the SNP... I don't like that, it renders your goal of no interest to me. The most obvious vehicle for my goal is the Labour Party and its unique TU links. You don't like that... It renders my goal of no interest to you.

Lets just be friends!

I don't think politicians have nearly as much power as most folk seem to think.

Very true

That's probably the most offensive and insulting thing anyone has ever said to me.

Don't mind them! I still love you!

[Orraloon]

Regardless of how much, or how little, you think they have, the best thing we could do is give them even less. Power needs to move from the top to the bottom. From intra-national agencies, to national governments, to devolved governments, to councils, to community councils, etc, etc. More countries, more councils, more community councils. More people with less power, equals less people with more power.

If our politicians get any power taken off them it isn't going to come in our direction. Even more power will go to the folk who control the planets resources and money. Folk like you and I (unless you are a oil magnate or something like that) aren't going to get any more power no matter who we vote for.

[Alan]

What comparable cases are there?

I'd say a comparable case is Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon constantly asserting they had received legal advice reassuring an independent Scotland wouldnt need to reapply for membership of the European Union. When the Information Commissioner ordered the Scottish government to respond to an FOI request to disclose the advice it had received £19,452.92 of public money was used to appeal the decision, only to admit later that the advice was not real.

I'm not going to start a crowdfunding exercise and take it to court then play the moral card.

Every politician does it from every party.

[Rossy]

I'd say a comparable case is Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon constantly asserting they had received legal advice reassuring an independent Scotland wouldnt need to reapply for membership of the European Union. When the Information Commissioner ordered the Scottish government to respond to an FOI request to disclose the advice it had received £19,452.92 of public money was used to appeal the decision, only to admit later that the advice was not real.

I'm not going to start a crowdfunding exercise and take it to court then play the moral card.

Every politician does it from every party.

Cameron stating in Parliament that there are 70.000 'moderate' Syrian troops ready to fight ISIS is a lie that was proven to be a lie about 10 minutes after he said it.

Carmichael was taken to court in the context of the General Election.....he lied, but did he lie to make personal political gain during the election ? It was always going to be difficult for him to be convicted as a brief glance at the legislation shows that it's vague and untested.

However, the case has been useful for various reasons....firstly, it further exposed the arrogant duplicity of Unionist politicians and a Unionist media working together to smear the SNP. Secondly, it removed the cloak of protection that some Unionist politicians feel they had after the referendum....the 'any lie is OK as long as it attacks the SNP' tactic.

I would also expect that the events have also strengthened the SNP vote and destroyed the LibDem support outside their very small number of core voters.

As an added bonus, it's also destroyed Carmichael's credibility and reputation. I wonder how much he now regrets the glee with which he first spread this lie ?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Rossy

[Alan]

Every politician does it. Every party. Even Nicola. It was blown out of all proportion. £100k+ crowdfunding for nationalist grievance.

[Scunnered]

Every politician does it. Every party. Even Nicola. It was blown out of all proportion. £100k+ crowdfunding for nationalist grievance.

They do indeed... I don't think it's been blown out of proportion though, people SHOULD get angry when politicians lie, the problem is people only get angry when opposing politicians lie. If the Tories had kept their pledge to give constituents the ability to sack their MP, and if such a system was introduced at Holyrood there wouldn't have been the need for a crowdfunding campaign.

I'd have fully supported any move to remove Salmond, Carmichael and Sturgeon for their lies and expedience

[Rossy]

Every politician does it. Every party. Even Nicola. It was blown out of all proportion. £100k+ crowdfunding for nationalist grievance.

Again, I remind you that the case wasn't brought simply because ' a politician lied'. It was brought in the context of the General Election.

I don't expect you to understand, but many are obviously sickened by the behaviour of our traditional Unionist Westminster politicians and their arrogant collusion with a Unionist press, designed to do nothing else but smear the SNP.

You can take that as a grievance if you want, but to see Carmichael narowly escape by the semantics of this particular law will hopefully have served as a warning to those who would think about repeating his actions in the future.

[Auld_Reekie]

Don't mind them! I still love you!

Day couldn't really get much worse.

[Lamia]

Capitalism isn't the problem and neither is communism. Humans that are utter ######s are the problem and they'll leverage whatever system is in place for their goals.

This is exactly the problem!

Every politician does it. Every party. Even Nicola. It was blown out of all proportion. £100k+ crowdfunding for nationalist grievance.

There was an election on. Regardless of the veracity of the other cases you cite those politicians can be judged on that and people can chose what to do at the next election. Carmichael lied to save his own skin for another 5 years. All the people wanted was a chance to decide based on the knowledge.

The fact that you are happy to accept this is normal and has been blown out of proportion makes you part of the problem. I do however suspect if Carmichael was a member of the SNP you would have an entirely different view.