exile Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I reckon we have a better chance in the away game than the home game - for some reason I can't explain. Maybe because we'll set up to smash and grab. I think we could beat every side in our group in a one-off game. well we did better last time at wembley than last time at hampden -and also in those play-offs sooner or later we are going to take some serious points off a top seed and I don;t see why it shouldn't be England - local derby being a leveller and all that Slovakia - I just can't help thinking they are, like many of us, a smallish nation who can only keep up a good show for a limited period and sooner or later will enter decline Looking back, both Poland and Ireland exploited German weaknesses, with hindsight we could have done better in that first game - if I recall the goals conceded were soft - sooner or later Slovakia have to slip up and it's our job to press an advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Christ we could be in the surreal position of praying for England victories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisEDI Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) lets be realistic england will walk the group and it would take an exceptional effort to finish second and not be the worst second place team, and then we would have to play a seeded 2nd place team. lets be honest the odds would be over 20/1 for that to happen. we arent qualifiying for it, out best players are approaching the twilight of their years and bar a couple of decent youngsters their isnt anything better than middle of the road english premiership team players coming through. maybe we will have a decent shot at the next euros which will be a crap fan experience with the games being spread about europe like club european football or the qualification games you've just had to play what a load of shite that is. Edited October 13, 2015 by LewisEDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunty Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 When was the last time we had a decent u-21 team? 91/92? Got to semis of euro championships (they were home and away legs then). Had the likes of Paul Lambert, Eoin Jess, Duncan Ferguson, Stephen Fulton, Stephen Wright, Scott Booth, Phil O'Donnell. Four years later we were in the Euros and World Cup. In fairness, our current crop ain't bad. Paterson, Christie, Cummings, Gauld, Nicholson, Fraser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Not to mention a hidden gem - Ruben Summut Chelsea youngster has played for our u19's I think?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 We seen the World Cup as the prime target and used the Euro Qualifiers to get ready for WC qualifiers Not qualifying for the Euros didnt bother us in the 70s and 80s Again whit??? Speak for yourself Ally. It feckin bothered me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanDoz Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 When you look at our World Cup campaign, Scotland have actually got a great chance to finish 2nd. We could have got France and Italy as 2nd seeds but got Slovakia. The other three Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta should really be winnable. If not 2nd, I don't see why we can't qualify for 2020 by finishing in the top 3 with a more favourable draw. Don't think it's all doom and gloom. Looking forward to the next 2 campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisEDI Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Not to mention a hidden gem - Ruben Summut Chelsea youngster has played for our u19's I think?! started the 3 under 19 games in germany, highly rated. wait for england to come in for him....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hope not, I think he was asked to play with the England u19's and turned them down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Again whit??? Speak for yourself Ally. It feckin bothered me!! No .. not us The SFA, Scottish Management and media Our performances and results in the Euro qualifiers were night and day to those in World Cup qualifiers Rightly or wrongly it seemed to not be taken as seriously Leaving aside coefficient damage you could argue that trying to qualify for both tournaments over 4 years has cost us in qualifying for any Edited October 13, 2015 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 In my lifetime there have been 25 major finals. Apart from a purple patch between 1974 and 1998 (during which even then we only qualified for 8 out of 13 tournaments) we haven't qualified for a single one. 8 qualifications out of 25 in my 49 year life. People need to get real. It's not about accepting defeat it's about accepting the inevitable. We'll qualify for one or two tournaments again in the future just like we get the occasional surprises like Latvia, Iceland, Wales etc. Because of the changes to football across the board, international football really reflects club football. It's no surprise that the same countries who dominate club football, dominate international football too. It's all about the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 No .. not us The SFA, Scottish Management and media Our performances and results in the Euro qualifiers were night and day to those in World Cup qualifiers Rightly or wrongly it seemed to not be taken as seriously Leaving aside coefficient damage you could argue that trying to qualify for both tournaments over 4 years has cost us in qualifying for any Sorry Ally. Simply don't agree with that. I don't believe 11 players ever walk onto a park not arsed if they win or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 In my lifetime there have been 25 major finals. Apart from a purple patch between 1974 and 1998 (during which even then we only qualified for 8 out of 13 tournaments) we haven't qualified for a single one. 8 qualifications out of 25 in my 49 year life. People need to get real. It's not about accepting defeat it's about accepting the inevitable. We'll qualify for one or two tournaments again in the future just like we get the occasional surprises like Latvia, Iceland, Wales etc. Because of the changes to football across the board, international football really reflects club football. It's no surprise that the same countries who dominate club football, dominate international football too. It's all about the money. The likelihood however is that in Iceland's case it will not be a one off We deserve a ruling body like they have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sorry Ally. Simply don't agree with that. I don't believe 11 players ever walk onto a park not arsed if they win or not. Its not about being arsed - it's about possibly being more "up" for one than the other Added to that is team selection - trying new players & different formations/tactics etc (yeah we used to be able to do that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 thanks. I would say we can get 3 points off england over 2 games - as we did in the play-offs bit of a different story back then was (assume you are on about '99) beating them 1-0 @ wemblee wasn't 3 points, was more like winning the second half of a game 1-0, after going down 2-0 in first half - i.e. in the end pretty meaningless we will be lucky to get a single draw over the 2 games this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 When you look at our World Cup campaign, Scotland have actually got a great chance to finish 2nd. We could have got France and Italy as 2nd seeds but got Slovakia. The other three Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta should really be winnable. If not 2nd, I don't see why we can't qualify for 2020 by finishing in the top 3 with a more favourable draw. Don't think it's all doom and gloom. Looking forward to the next 2 campaigns.We're not consistent enough though. We very rarely get two wins on the trot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 One of our great Union Dividends stops investment in our sport. The money that is spent in London means we will always suffer. Thank-you No voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McExpat Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 When you look at our World Cup campaign, Scotland have actually got a great chance to finish 2nd. We could have got France and Italy as 2nd seeds but got Slovakia. The other three Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta should really be winnable. If not 2nd, I don't see why we can't qualify for 2020 by finishing in the top 3 with a more favourable draw. Don't think it's all doom and gloom. Looking forward to the next 2 campaigns. Problem being 2nd won't see us qualify and will likely see us come up against a team of the calibre of Italy and France in the play offs. As it's all about qualification I'm not optimistic and therefore not looking forward to the campaign from that perspective. Leaving aside coefficient damage you could argue that trying to qualify for both tournaments over 4 years has cost us in qualifying for any So the suggestion / argument is to pick qualifying for one or the other, over a 4 year spell and in doing so we would have a better chance of qualifying? This is ridiculous! Morale and motivation of all inolved would be at an all time low, just imagine the call offs, the attendances etc Aiming to qualify for a tournament every 2 years, over such a long period of time, as have with each campaign, should not be seen as overdemanding, nor overexpectant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ak91 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Just had a look through our qualifying campaigns back to 1996 and here's a few things I've gathered. In 1996 and 1998 when we qualified for these major tournaments, we averaged 2.3 points per game. We were in pots 3 and 2 respectively so there aren't any excuses on that basis. Since then however we have only averaged 2 points per game in one campaign which was the euro 2008 qualifying campaign which included Italy and France. In the last 4 qualifying campaigns the highest points per game average we have achieved is 1.5 Ppg which was the campaign just ended. Who knows maybe the qualifying campaigns for 2010, 2012, and 2014 were the dark days and we may be slowly rising from it. the average points per game we achieve doesn't really seem to differ too much with pot places. Since 1996 we've averaged 1.8 PPG when in pot 1, 1.8 PPG when in pot 2, 1.66 PPG when in pot 3, and 1.53 PPG when in pot 4. I thought the decline may have been down to increased competition over the years with the introduction of new members but there's not really an argument for that. Since we last qualified in 1998 Yugoslavia have been replaced by Serbia and Montenegro, and Kazakhstan, Andorra and Gibralter (euros only) have been added. The data suggests we will get 17 points in the next campaign, which is probably border line play off place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wubbs Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Its not about being arsed - it's about possibly being more "up" for one than the other Added to that is team selection - trying new players & different formations/tactics etc (yeah we used to be able to do that) The Euros were the international equivalent of the league cup, but have now achieved parity with the World Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 The Euros were the international equivalent of the league cup, but have now achieved parity with the World Cup. I thank youWas point I was trying to make in another thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I thank you Was point I was trying to make in another thread And the point I was trying make was that they achieved that parity before the 90s. 84 at the latest I'd say, arguably 1980. I accept that before 1980 they were small beer. In fact I think there was only 4 finalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 A straw poll of panini albums of euro 80 v WC 82 may prove that theory incorrect I still feel 96 being a watershed Am convinced lots of jump on the bandwagon flag wavers knew not of the tourney existence until then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 How many Scorland fans at Italy 90 - 15-20k ? Euro 92 5-10k ? I understand there was still tix on sale for euro 96 for our games also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) A straw poll of panini albums of euro 80 v WC 82 may prove that theory incorrect I still feel 96 being a watershed Am convinced lots of jump on the bandwagon flag wavers knew not of the tourney existence until then How many Scorland fans at Italy 90 - 15-20k ? Euro 92 5-10k ? I understand there was still tix on sale for euro 96 for our games also You could argue that we’re essentially like Drew Jarvie and Kenny McDowell fighting over an afro comb here but…… I honestly have no idea how many Scotland fans travelled to these tournaments, but given that prior to 1992 absolutely zero Scotland fans travelled to a Euro finals, I’m not sure how that devalues the standing of the tournament as a whole. Is it maybe not just the case that we showed less interest until we actually qualified? That would seem to make more sense. Doesn’t mean the tournament had any less prominence before we qualified. Euro 88 was massive. Both in a football and media sense. Ireland and England qualifying, England getting booted out in the group stage, the birth of that great Dutch team, Van Basten’s goal etc etc. 84 the same with the great French team. It definitely had less prominence in the UK because nobody qualified, but that doesn’t mean it was the same across Europe. I expect your 1980 vs 1982 Panini sticker album comment is valid, but prior to 1980 I was only really aware of the 1978 sticker album, would we have been interested if we hadn’t qualified? I doubt it. Edited October 14, 2015 by Marky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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