ParisInAKilt Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I take the general points above but therein lies the way ahead I was getting at - a lot of his policies are popular and not that 'socialist' but rightly or wrongly (wrongly, if you prefer) he is too easily painted as the old hard left, pacifist, terrorist-sympathising, unpatriotic republican, etc. Even if we agreed most of these (smears apart) are good things, and that the Establishment is a collective ######, it's becoming vanishingly unlikely that such a man would be voted through the door of no. 10. I think a lot of people just don't want to believe this to be so, or at least don't attempt to convince that it isn't so, so they fight back by saying why Jeremy is right and New Labour are wrong, but even if that's accepted, I don;t see it getting them nearer winning the UK GE. When i say someone new this may need to be someone between Blair and Corbyn - I don't know the current crop but maybe some like John Smith, or even a Labour equivalent of Caroline Lucas or even (dare I say) Nicola Sturgeon who is competent enough and unscary enough to run a government Who is telling us it's unlikely he'll get voted in? The same people who said independence was unlikely, people who feel threatened by him and his policies. We didn't believe them then so there's no reason to believe them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Who is telling us it's unlikely he'll get voted in? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the polls were. You may say he has plenty of time to make up the difference but my point is that his party is not letting him. I'm not saying its what I'd like to see, I'm saying it based on what I see. I think there's more chance of independence than a Corbyn PM. Time is a factor, and a united/divided front another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the polls were. You may say he has plenty of time to make up the difference but my point is that his party is not letting him. I'm not saying its what I'd like to see, I'm saying it based on what I see. I think there's more chance of independence than a Corbyn PM. Time is a factor, and a united/divided front another. You're right about his party, they'd kick him out now if they thought they could get away with it. Again with polls I'm not entirely convinced by them, even if some did call the referendum correctly. Maybe I'm being naive but I think Corbyn could get enough votes to become PM, massive task and would require a larger scale yes style campaign UK wide for his side of the labour party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) i know what you mean but surely he has to make some dent in the existing voters... every Tory vote converted is like doubling the value of the vote in terms of getting closer. As I understand it there will be boundary changes which make it difficult even for Labour to stand still... IMO, Corbyn can't win by chasing Tory votes. Blair managed to do it, but that's because he is a Tory, and he managed to convince loads of folk he would be better at being a Tory than the corrupt, inefficient sleaze ridden incumbents. Corbyn needs to chase the "missing 15 million". But it will be difficult for him to do that whilst the Blairites continue to try to chase Tory votes. He needs to have a purge and he needs to do it soon, before it's too late. Edited January 3, 2016 by Orraloon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 That's intriguing, I wonder if most people reading that will be nationalists, not sure who else is paying attention. It's got a strange flavour to it though, reminds me of a sense of willing capitulation, is it in 1984, where they end up loving Big Brother? I don't think many folk will read it all to be honest, but if he is thinking about voting Tory then I'm sure plenty others are as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 You're right about his party, they'd kick him out now if they thought they could get away with it. Again with polls I'm not entirely convinced by them, even if some did call the referendum correctly. Maybe I'm being naive but I think Corbyn could get enough votes to become PM, massive task and would require a larger scale yes style campaign UK wide for his side of the labour party. Last summer I thought what you say was possible for a popular swing to Corbyn (parallels in Europe too) and he still looked a better bet to shake things up than the "other 3 contenders." However I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't going to happen, as the right wing press and right wing Labour won't allow it to happen. The most specific latest opinion poll I had in mind was one of local government in England at least (Thrasher & Rallings), of local councils, where Labour were predicted to lose seats not gain them (to lose 200 out of 1200 seats). Also apparently they are struggling in Wales. Plus the internal civil war I think the parallels with the Yes movement are interesting, but Yes had the advantage of building beyond a single (united) party, whereas Corbyn has only part of his party to build from and the other part is actively opposing him. It's as if Devo Max was on the ballot box and all the time SNP leadership was arguing for independence, there were SNP rebels urging people to be more realistic and vote for Devo Max or risk getting nothing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 IMO, Corbyn can't win by chasing Tory votes. Blair managed to do it, but that's because he is a Tory, and he managed to convince loads of folk he would be better at being a Tory than the corrupt, inefficient sleaze ridden incumbents. Corbyn needs to chase the "missing 15 million". But it will be difficult for him to do that whilst the Blairites continue to try to chase Tory votes. He needs to have a purge and he needs to do it soon, before it's too late. Well I agree Corbyn is unlikely to be chasing or gaining Tory votes..... hence why I am coming to the opinion there is a better chance of a Corbynite or at least Corbyn-lite agenda getting to the electorate in 2020 with a different candidate (possibly with Jeremy's blessing). If there's a reshuffle i'd look out for the up and coming ones - maybe someone like Clive Lewis, but whoever it is would need to unite the whole party Anyway what do I know, I feel like it's time to leave Labour members to sort out it out and take another look in May or 2020 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Anyway what do I know, I feel like it's time to leave Labour members to sort out it out and take another look in May . The only redeeming factors about Scottish Labour are that Martyn Cook and Richard Leonard are on the list, other than that avoid* and allow the party to be cleansed. * unless you live in Neil Findlays constituency, in which case you have one of, if not the best constituency MSP in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 The only redeeming factors about Scottish Labour are that Martyn Cook and Richard Leonard are on the list, other than that avoid* and allow the party to be cleansed. * unless you live in Neil Findlays constituency, in which case you have one of, if not the best constituency MSP in the country. Aye, Angela is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Aye, Angela is pretty good. No she's not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKUZbpXUx4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 No she's not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKUZbpXUx4 Ah ... that's strangely sweet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 what's specifically wrong with saying 20012 instead of 2012? As opposed to saying like we should arm 70k folk in the Free Syrian Army. When you mean we should stay the feck out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) what's specifically wrong with saying 20012 instead of 2012? As opposed to saying like we should arm 70k folk in the Free Syrian Army. When you mean we should stay the feck out. I think its more that she didn't realise it was going out live and thought it was being recorded. Now that may be her fault or it may be that she wasn't told it was live but it does make her look stupid. Edited January 3, 2016 by aaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 So is Corbyn New Old Labour? What could possibly go wrong. More faces than Big Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I think its more that she didn't realise it was going out live and thought it was being recorded. Now that may be her fault or it may be that she wasn't told it was live but it does make her look stupid. oh right, i've seen a few incidents over the years where it has happened. Should have kept watching. cheers for the explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Laud Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Neil findlays an arse.He comes out with ludicrous statements like Scotland isnt capable of producing a news programme covering world affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Ah ... that's strangely sweet... More likely to win her more votes than lose them, I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Neil findlays an arse.He comes out with ludicrous statements like Scotland isnt capable of producing a news programme covering world affairs. Does he? He'll be attacking folk with hammers next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Neil findlays an arse.He comes out with ludicrous statements like Scotland isnt capable of producing a news programme covering world affairs. I'm only going by his twitter page but Findlay seems really stressed out. He takes himself far too seriously and argues with people over the most trivial of subjects. Having no sense of humour and being very easily wound up doesn't help him either. He went mental criticising the SNP for all voting against war in Syria - despite being against war himself . A very confused man indeed. As an aside, I did hear from my own sources that "The Gray Man" himself, Iain Gray, wants to have another shot at the SLAB leadership if/when wee Kez throws her final tantrum ........... Edited January 3, 2016 by ErsatzThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 He went mental criticising the SNP for all voting against war in Syria - despite being against war himself . A very confused man indeed. He would do well to just delete his social media profiles if he can't stop arguing with folk. As for the above, he did, if it was taken out of context, the Syria rant came amongst a number of complaints that the SNP haven't showed any dissent since the Nato vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 He would do well to just delete his social media profiles if he can't stop arguing with folk. As for the above, he did, if it was taken out of context, the Syria rant came amongst a number of complaints that the SNP haven't showed any dissent since the Nato vote. You would have thought though that he'd be pleased to see almost all of Scotland's MP's vote against war ? Even Labour supporters were giving Findlay pelters for taking such a stupid attitude to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 While he continues to act like a total tool, I cant take any compliments about him being a great constituency MSP seriously. His judgement is clearly f***ed. And to think he stood for leader. Looks a complete amateur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Does he? He'll be attacking folk with hammers next. I've been kind of busy with Christmas and shit but seen a few references to the hammer thing. What's it all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 As an aside, I did hear from my own sources that "The Gray Man" himself, Iain Gray, wants to have another shot at the SLAB leadership if/when wee Kez throws her final tantrum ........... Sarah Boyack will be the next leader of the Scottish branch of the Labour party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Sarah Boyack will be the next leader of the Scottish branch of the Labour party. Has she come close to achieving world peace which Iain Gray nearly did ? "I spent two years working in the civil war in Mozambique, I've been to Rwanda two months after the genocide, I walked the killing fields in Cambodia and I was in Chile three days after Pinochet was demitted from office...." Gray the internationally renown peacemaker and crisis management expert Edited January 3, 2016 by ErsatzThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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