bruce778 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 it was a federal case. Mass doesn't have death sentence. Not sure I understand how the state is not fighting federal in how one of its citizens is being treated against state law. OddFederal law trumps state law. Don't agree with the death penalty. Numerous studies show it doesn't work as a deterrent and actually costs more than imprisoning someone for life because of all the appeals. Being in jail for good would be more of a punishment than execution in my view. Having said all of that, at least in this case, they definitely have the right guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Personally I think that the argument about miscarriage of justice, whilst significant, is not the key issue. For me it is one of social contract & judgement of the kind of society we want to create for ourselves as citizens. Proponents of capital punishment can fairly easily trawl the press to find the most outrageous crimes imagineable and it's an easy hit to say flick a switch (literally or metaphorically) & remove them as a problem. But we have to ask is vengeance a character trait we want of ourselves (it is our society, we create it), and is it appropriate to take the life of people who have ended up doing something for reasons, in truth, that nne of us fully understand. I am not for a minute trying to justify heinous crimes, but why would someone commit the crimes listed above? It seems to be a no-brainer to start from the point that these are not people of sound mind in one way or another, so... Were they born that way? If so, we execute for a birth defect. Were they damaged some way in childhood? If so we execute for the failings of others. Have they become ill? If so, we execute for reasons we don't even understand. Have they become damaged through ideological grooming, political, sexual, etc.? If so, we execute for our own failings as a society & incapacity to address those vulnerabilities. You can continue to expand that list as almost every 'right up there' crime has origins and causes that are complex, and it's morally bankrupt to say that it was just a choice they made so let's waste them to pretend it was just something they woke up one day & decided to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimstroma Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Sentenced to death. I actually quite like American justice sometimes.X2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 for the fans... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/may/14/homan-square-inside-cctv-video?CMP=embed_video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam4ritchie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The death penalty has little to do with justice and everything to do with revenge. It also solves nothing. Take the time to read up on Stanley (tookie) Williams, a gang leader in America, then please tell me what purpose his execution served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
At U Peter Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Kriss Strachan (17) rapes a 91 year old woman Forced way into her home Punched her repeatedly Tried to strangle her Raped her Left her with an STD The wee old woman who was previously independent is now reliant on others, cannot live on her own and wishes she was dead The choice Sentenced to 12 years and probably out in 6 or Injection and removed from society forever Not that difficult is it ? Can their not be some sort of in between like a much longer prison sentence rather than murdering him, or does it have to be one or the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 As ever, Huddersfield nails the argument and explains it in a way I never could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam4ritchie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I would like to know what purpose it serves to take a life. It deters nobody from committing crime. Just look at the stats, there are more killings and other serious crimes in states with the death penalty than those that don't have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam4ritchie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I would like to know what purpose it serves to take a life. It deters nobody from committing crime. Just look at the stats, there are more killings and other serious crimes in states with the death penalty than those that don't have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 As ever, Huddersfield nails the argument and explains it in a way I never could. You're very kind. I'll point that out to my wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Will never support death sentence in any circumstance as there is no chance for rehabilitation. It is not about punishment (the convict will not know that they're dead). It's all about revenge. Glad we have the right to life to protect us from such "justice"here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 how about someone who blows them up Aye probs that too.theres lots if its and buts. But anything harming a child should ve severly punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Will never support death sentence in any circumstance as there is no chance for rehabilitation. It is not about punishment (the convict will not know that they're dead). It's all about revenge. Glad we have the right to life to protect us from such "justice"here And what about the families of the victims ? What about having to live the rest of their lives knowing that the scumbag that did it is still about albeit in prison ? Rehabilitation for most crime is possible Rehabilition for some crime is impossible and it's time people realised that - Peter Sutcliffe being a random name i pick out the air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I don't think a revenge murder will bring families any long term relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 And what about the families of the victims ? What about having to live the rest of their lives knowing that the scumbag that did it is still about albeit in prison ? Rehabilitation for most crime is possible Rehabilition for some crime is impossible and it's time people realised that - Peter Sutcliffe being a random name i pick out the air killing a murderer ain't going to bring them back. But of course I've never been in that position. However I can't see how seeing someone die would give me comfort. If I was on that position and had the choice of death or prison, I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing my choices killed someon. II'd be no better than the criminal. Just my position, not expecting others to feel the same, but thankfully we live in a compassionate society where murder is rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) If I was on that position and had the choice of death or prison, I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing my choices killed someon. II'd be no better than the criminal. Just my position, not expecting others to feel the same, but thankfully we live in a compassionate society where murder is rare. I am not saying that victims families should be able to decide. Totally no way should that be their decision I totally accept that there is very little argument for capital punishment. After all i have been against it all my life However i am now in the mindset that there are certain crimes where those committing them give up their right to be part of our society It is 0.0001 % of cases where the crime committed has been so heinous that it is clear that there is no possibility of rehabilitation or allowing that person to be reintegrated back into society But i do realise that it is impossible for there to be such legislation and maybe that is a good thing Edited May 16, 2015 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I am not saying that victims families should be able to decide. Totally no way should that be their decision I totally accept that there is very little argument for capital punishment. After all i have been against it all my life However i am now in the mindset that there are certain crimes where those committing them give up their right to be part of our society It is 0.0001 % of cases where the crime committed has been so heinous that it is clear that there is no possibility of rehabilitation or allowing that person to be reintegrated back into society But i do realise that it it impossible for there to be such legislation and maybe that is a good thing In your 0.0001%, would you include the folk who authorise drone strikes which kill 100s of innocent victims including women and children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 In your 0.0001%, would you include the folk who authorise drone strikes which kill 100s of innocent victims including women and children? No for obvious reasons - but i get where you are coming from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 In your 0.0001%, would you include the folk who authorise drone strikes which kill 100s of innocent victims including women and children? Yes coz they are c*nts too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 No for obvious reasons - but i get where you are coming from Do you think that, the fact that they just might manage to get a few bad guys at the same time, makes the slaughter of innocent victims OK? They know that innocent folk are going to die but it doesn't stop them doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Do you think that, the fact that they just might manage to get a few bad guys at the same time, makes the slaughter of innocent victims OK? They know that innocent folk are going to die but it doesn't stop them doing it. No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam4ritchie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Which is why i am not advocating the death penalty in 100% of all casesWhat are you advocating? Two different types of guilty? One that is 100% guilty and one you're not sure about? And taking that aside, what purpose is served by executing criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I can't put it as eloquently as Huddersfield and I can't ever see a legitimate reason to take a life. How does that sit with the person administering the fatal injection/switch/noose? It's abhorrent to me on every level. I recall when McVeigh (sp) was executed and I couldn't come to terms with people revelling in his death, brought about by him causing other deaths. It's not so much about % of possible guilt for me, it just doesn't sit well on a human level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What are you advocating? Capital punishment for only the most heinous crimes in society however as i already accepted deciding which type of crime was and wasnt applicable is impossible - but its not wrong to wish that it was The purpose is not wasting time and money incarcerating certain murderers/serial rapists/child killers that do not deserve to, and couldnt, be reintegrated back into society for the crimes they have committed. Sutcliffe is an example to that i gave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Kriss Strachan (17) rapes a 91 year old woman Forced way into her home Punched her repeatedly Tried to strangle her Raped her Left her with an STD The wee old woman who was previously independent is now reliant on others, cannot live on her own and wishes she was dead The choice Sentenced to 12 years and probably out in 6 or Injection and removed from society forever Not that difficult is it ? Yup well said. I would happily see that little hung. One thing I would say about American justice is that life means life. Not a poxy 12 year sentence and out in 6 so there is possibly an argument to be made for the Boston Bomber to be given that. That said I've no sympathy. The world will be a better place without scum like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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