macy37 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm guessing that there might be differences in each case, or simply that the SFA aren't/weren't aware of ours. Livi only got found out as they brought it to the SFA's attention IIRC. Is it that because there is a difference in timing? I don't know, do they have a cut off point where if you are say 2 months late the penalties kick in? Pay before that you don't get points deducted? I don't know how late Livi or Rangers are/were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well Rangers have actually paid their tax, albeit after a final demand. Also Livi's penalty was imposed 3 years after the offence took place. Yeah I was thinking that may have been the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well Rangers have actually paid their tax, albeit after a final demand. Also Livi's penalty was imposed 3 years after the offence took place. Missed this..............makes sense to me so I would not expect RFC to be deducted points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Board are definitely looking for a way out. Currently in talks with King group and Parks to avoid EGM . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 A decent article by Roddy Forsyth that sums up the current situation. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11325238/Rangers-board-in-crisis-talks-after-emergency-500000-loan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Not sure where you get your figures from! It seems to me that if king and the three bears get support from the fans, they will have control of the club, so they don't need to spend much more money in this regard. In terms of debts, we owe Ashley £3m and Easedale £500k plus other working capital debts. Hopefully, king and three bears can get board room control by an egm, pay off the loans and install themselves as replacement creditors with a further facility until the end of the season at which time a complete overhaul of the playing squad and club generally can occur to control costs and repay the loans. That is the ideal scenario in my view. just guessing - if they are £3m down plus £500k for Jan and there will need to be another loan for Feb operating costs that gets you to £5M easily, maybe £10M is stretching it. But £5m plus whatever Ashley values the rights to sales of merchandise at - he's not going to give that up for less than £5M ? So after you buy the club you walk in the door and you are another £10M down plus £1M/month ? is that closer ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/ SPFL seek answers from Rangers over claims of late payment of tax By Grant Russell 5 January 2015 13:08 GMT 0 4 Under scrutiny: The SPFL will ask Rangers for answers over possible non-payment of National Insurance.© SNS Group The Scottish Professional Football League has sought clarity from Rangers over claims they have fallen behind on National Insurance payments. STV understands the league were unaware of a potential winding-up order being issued by HM Revenue and Customs to the club. SPFL rules require clubs to declare if they are more than 28 days behind on paying tax, within two days of a default occurring. Known as a "default event" by the league, Rangers would be subject to an immediate registration embargo if it can be established the club have failed to pay on time. Should it also be proven that Rangers failed to declare the event within two days, the club would also stand accused of a breach of SPFL rules. Livingston were recently docked five points and fined £10,000 by the league after failing to disclose bonus payments made to players which were not subject to taxation. HM Revenue and Customs declined to comment on the matter. Rangers were unavailable for comment at the time of publication. A seven day warning letter is typically sent by HM Revenue and Customs prior to a winding-up order being issued. STV estimates Rangers pay £140,000 per month in National Insurance, raised both from employee and employer contributions, based on salary information detailed in the latest company accounts. The news comes on a day where Rangers were loaned £500,000 by Sandy Easdale, chairman of the club's football board, to meet emergency working costs due "over the next few days". With the club struggling for cash and still seeking £8m of investment to cover bills for the next 12 months, various parties are vying for control. On Monday morning Rangers confirmed a takeover approach has been received by Robert Sarver, the American owner of NBA team Phoenix Suns. In a statement to the Stock Exchange, the company said Sarver has until 5pm on February 2 to formalise any offer. Shortly after a stormy reception for the current board at the AGM of Rangers International Football Club plc in December, a consortium of businessmen moved to purchase 19% the company's shares. George Letham, Douglas Park and George Taylor were then joined by South African-based Dave King in snapping up shares, with the former director of the Rangers oldco becoming Rangers' biggest single shareholder with 15%. The balance of power on the board at Rangers currently resides with Mike Ashley, the owner of Newcastle United Football Club. He owns just under nine per cent of the shares in Rangers International Football Club plc and was blocked on Christmas Eve by the Scottish FA from receiving approval to increase his shareholding to 29.9%. Nevertheless, the club's chief executive Derek Llambias is an appointee of the Sports Direct owner and Rangers chairman David Somers, together with non-executive director James Easdale, are sympathetic to Ashley's manoeuvrings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 That should keep you happy for a while EK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 That should keep you happy for a while EK! They've been keeping me happy since Feb 14th 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Board are definitely looking for a way out. Currently in talks with King group and Parks to avoid EGM . all these developments could be good news from a point of view of control of the club. but I still cant see why anyone would put money into it when a big portion will go straight out to Green and Ashley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 just guessing - if they are £3m down plus £500k for Jan and there will need to be another loan for Feb operating costs that gets you to £5M easily, maybe £10M is stretching it. But £5m plus whatever Ashley values the rights to sales of merchandise at - he's not going to give that up for less than £5M ? So after you buy the club you walk in the door and you are another £10M down plus £1M/month ? is that closer ? Well you wouldn't buy Ashley's deals from him. You would just have to operate within the parameters of those deals. If that means you have less turnover to work with you cut your cloth accordingly. The summer should see a significant reduction in wages of players, plus a competent board should be able to identify where exactly the club is leaking money. The key period is from now until July, but I don't see that the figures being banded around in terms of debt are disproportionate in comparison with the turnover that rangers could achieve if they were being run properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well you wouldn't buy Ashley's deals from him. You would just have to operate within the parameters of those deals. If that means you have less turnover to work with you cut your cloth accordingly. The summer should see a significant reduction in wages of players, plus a competent board should be able to identify where exactly the club is leaking money. The key period is from now until July, but I don't see that the figures being banded around in terms of debt are disproportionate in comparison with the turnover that rangers could achieve if they were being run properly. Whatever happened to the financial review that was carried out? I take it nothing was implemented to stem the tide. If not the review was a total waste of time and presumably the money it cost? Who was it that did this 'review' again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Whatever happened to the financial review that was carried out? I take it nothing was implemented to stem the tide. If not the review was a total waste of time and presumably the money it cost? Who was it that did this 'review' again? That was done by graham Wallace who appeared to be a powerless chief executive. No doubt it was heavily driven by the rest of the board. It just seemed to be a ploy to avoid answering difficult questions at the agm, which was shortly after Wallace's appointment. Essentially, the review revealed that there were a number of onerous contracts in place that couldn't be avoided and that further funding would be needed. Didn't really say anything not already known by that time. Hopefully a new board can shed some light on those deals as there must be a real suspicion of directors failing to comply with their fiduciary duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Whatever happened to the financial review that was carried out? I take it nothing was implemented to stem the tide. If not the review was a total waste of time and presumably the money it cost? Who was it that did this 'review' again? Graham Wallace, former CEO punted by Ashley. It was a complete and utter waste of time. Was called the 120 day review and I think it took about 140 days to be published. That should have been the first warning sign! The actual detail that was in it was pretty embarrassing and there was no strategy about how they were going to achieve their aims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 No rules broken regarding the NI payments according to SPFL.Lots of spin coming from certain quarters to distract from real issue. Access to funds and change of regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 No rules broken regarding the NI payments according to SPFL.Lots of spin coming from certain quarters to distract from real issue. Access to funds and change of regime.The spfl rules require that the 28 days period after the due date of the debt to hmrc have expired - seems to me that would be unlikely to have happened - well a competent board wouldn't have let it happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal smith Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hearts have been given and additional allocation of tickets taking it from the initial 950 to over 2000 tickets for the game on 16th Jan must be desperate for money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hearts have been given and additional allocation of tickets taking it from the initial 950 to over 2000 tickets for the game on 16th Jan must be desperate for money Well none of our fans are going so we need to get cash in somehow. I actually can't remember the last game I was at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The spfl rules require that the 28 days period after the due date of the debt to hmrc have expired - seems to me that would be unlikely to have happened - well a competent board wouldn't have let it happen... If HMRC issued a "pay up within 7 days or we're winding you up" letter then surely the 28 days would have to have passed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If HMRC issued a "pay up within 7 days or we're winding you up" letter then surely the 28 days would have to have passed? You've got far too much time on yer hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 You've got far too much time on yer hands! It was in the paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 BTW that was the quickest "investigation" in Scottish football history. Well, since the last time they cleared them of something or other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It was in the paper. Cut and paste, or did ye manage tae type it yersel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well none of our fans are going so we need to get cash in somehow. I actually can't remember the last game I was at! Glory hunter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Glory hunter.... That's the first time in nearly 3 years anyone has associated anything to do with Rangers and the word glory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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