Tonev The Racist

[AberdeenAngus]

Predictable response.

Can see this going to 30 pages by the weekend.

[Maq]

"The members of the tribunal adjourned to consider the evidence and have now published a 3,500-word document outlining how they came to their decision."

Have they released this?

[Rossy]

So there we have it, one man's word against another is enough to get you a 7 match ban in Scotland.

I didn't realise you were part of the panel and heard all of the evidence.

Why didn't you vote to acquit ?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Rossy

[Maq]

@STVGrant: "Tribunal found Mr Logan to be an impressive witness. He gave his evidence in a careful and measured manner."

@STVGrant: "The tribunal considered that Tonev gave his evidence in a guarded and hesitant manner."

@STVGrant: His evidence amounted to a denial that the words used by him had included the phrase black c***".

@STVGrant: His [Tonev] evidence on his understanding of the language said to have been used, was particularly unsatisfactory.

@STVGrant: Tribunal: "On the central issue in the case we were unable to accept [Tonev] as either credible or reliable."

@STVGrant: "Tribunal preferred the evidence of Logan on what was said to him by Tonev."

@STVGrant: Tribunal: "Found on the balance of probabilities that Tonev did say to Logan 'Get your hands off me you black c***'."

@STVGrant: Celtic statement: "Celtic Football Club will be approaching the Scottish FA to seek to address this issue."

@STVGrant: Celtic QC: "Even after the Tribunal had found Logan to be a credible and

reliable witness, a number of questions remained to be addressed."

@STVGrant: Celtic QC: "such as how the weather

conditions may have affected Logans ability to hear what was said..."

@STVGrant: Celtic QC: "Fact that the

appellant is Bulgarian and English not his first language, & the unusual & improbable nature of the complaint."

@STVGrant: Aberdeen QC: "case was simple and straightforward, invited the Appellate Tribunal to apply common sense and their experience of football."

[Rossy]

I'm delighted for Shay Logan.

He's been consistent, quiet and dignified throughout this shambles....unlike Celtic FC, their players and their manager.... and despite the constant attempts by Celtic to smear him as a liar, the right result has been reached.

:ok:

[scoobydoo]

Can't be right that it is one players word against another and they judge on how they present their case. Mickey mouse verdict from a mickey mouse organisation.

[Maq]

@STVGrant: Aberdeen QC: "The only challenge to Logans account had been that he was mistaken as to the words

used."

@STVGrant: Decision: "In this situation... it is not a question of deciding which on balance is the more likely version."

@STVGrant: Decision: "Body making the determination must be satisfied that it is more likely than not the

act of misconduct alleged committed."

@STVGrant: Decision: "That is what proving an allegation on the balance of probabilities means."

@STVGrant: Decision: "Crucial finding in case was finding Logan was not only a credible witness but more particularly he was also a reliable witness."

[Maq]

@STVGrant: Logan evidence: During game "Logan placed his arm across Tonev's chest." Tonev said to Logan "dont touch me you black c***'."

@STVGrant: Logan said that he would never try and tarnish anyones career and that he knew "what the word black sounds like".

[Cove_Sheep]

"The members of the tribunal adjourned to consider the evidence and have now published a 3,500-word document outlining how they came to their decision."

Have they released this?

Original hearing

Appeal

[Maq]

@STVGrant: Tonev in his evidence did not offer any alternative explanation for what he may have said. He simply denied saying "black c***".

So there it is. Not, "I said....... and he must have misheard me", just "I never said that"

"Well what did you say?"

(whistles)

[Cove_Sheep]

There's a wee error in the original hearing claiming Logan came on loan from Aston Villa before signing a contract with Aberdeen.

[Maq]

@leomiklasz: Who can say how much racism goes unheard because of Scotland's tempestuous climate?

[Cove_Sheep]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 2m2 minutes ago

A correction. Tonev said he said to Logan: "get your hands off me". He then denied adding on to that "black c***".

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 2m2 minutes ago

Logan said Tonev said: "Don’t touch me you black c***". The tribunal ruled Tonev said: "Get your hands off me you black c***".

[hannibal smith]

@leomiklasz: Who can say how much racism goes unheard because of Scotland's tempestuous climate?

[phart]

So Logan is a reliable witness but he got 75% of the words wrong in the eyes of the panel.

I sincerely doubt a miscarriage has been done here, but the reasoning is immense feckwittery.

Spending ages saying how reliable a witness is, then putting out they only got 2 out of the 8 words correct and the non-reiable one, saying they got 6 out of 8 words correct.

Just devoid of intelligence, again though, that's not to say the wrong destination was reached just made a meal getting it there.

[Scotty CTA]

If it were suggested that both parties involved AGREE to accept the results of a polygraph then Tonev would either decline or fail if he went through with it.

Delighted for Shay Logan, and embarrassed for Celtic.

[johnnie x]

@STVGrant: Celtic QC: "such as how the weather

conditions may have affected Logans ability to hear what was said..."

Lose all credibility with this desperate line

However to balance things up when Logan says he is 1 million percent sure he loses all credibility too.

[stocky]

So Logan is a reliable witness but he got 75% of the words wrong in the eyes of the panel.

I sincerely doubt a miscarriage has been done here, but the reasoning is immense feckwittery.

Spending ages saying how reliable a witness is, then putting out they only got 2 out of the 8 words correct and the non-reiable one, saying they got 6 out of 8 words correct.

Just devoid of intelligence, again though, that's not to say the wrong destination was reached just made a meal getting it there.

aye but it was the TWO words that mattered really.............. all the others are harmless....

[phart]

If it were suggested that both parties involved AGREE to accept the results of a polygraph then Tonev would either decline or fail if he went through with it.

Delighted for Shay Logan, and embarrassed for Celtic.

Polygraphs have no basis in real science.

[phart]

aye but it was the TWO words that mattered really.............. all the others are harmless....

Of course, it looks stupid though if you end up saying that a sentence was said that No one said was said.

In other words there are 3 stories. what Tonev said happened, what Logan said happened and what the SFA said happened. None of them agree, although as you point out there is agreement on the important words. Why do they believe Logan on "black bastdard" but not "Don’t touch me" while disbelieving tonev on "Black " but believing him on "Get your hands off me"

Edited December 16, 2014 by phart

[dipped flake]

so will celtic do the decent thing and finally accept this or will they just go in full mope mode again

[Scotty CTA]

So Logan is a reliable witness but he got 75% of the words wrong in the eyes of the panel.

I sincerely doubt a miscarriage has been done here, but the reasoning is immense feckwittery.

Spending ages saying how reliable a witness is, then putting out they only got 2 out of the 8 words correct and the non-reiable one, saying they got 6 out of 8 words correct.

Just devoid of intelligence, again though, that's not to say the wrong destination was reached just made a meal getting it there.

It's not math.

If you ever get the chance to walk around in a black skin you'd note that words like "black c*unt" and "n*gger" carry a lot more weight.

[phart]

It's not math.

If you ever get the chance to walk around in a black skin you'd note that words like "black c*unt" and "n*gger" carry a lot more weight.

This is just a straw-man, no one claimed it was math(s), nor were any comments made on walking about in a "black skin", what point is it you think you're making Scotty?

EDIT: when did you ever get a chance to walk about in black skin, like? Spare me the white knight schtick.

Edited December 16, 2014 by phart

[DeeRus]

so will celtic do the decent thing and finally accept this or will they just go in full mope mode again

Continuing on their Moped - had said on the Tuesday (of the week the original appeal was due to be heard on that Thursday) they'd be appealing to the CAS .......................

[Scotty CTA]

Polygraphs have no basis in real science.

I know that they aren't used in court that's why I said if both sides agreed to go by the result regardless.

Firstly, it would be an alternative to "it's one person's word against the other", and secondly it would be telling how Tonev would react faced with a 'no-win' scenario.