Andy North Croy Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Well, after 13 years and over 400 UK troops killed in Afghanistan, Britain leaves today with swathes of the country still occupied by "the enemy"........................... ....Discuss....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Good programme on State Broadcaster 2 the now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 it was a war we were never ment to win. the book called "the circuit" by bob sheperd gives a very good account of how the allies should have done things if they were serious about subduing the stan. buy moving out of an area after it was pacified and the projects completed it let the taliban come straight back in thus meaning that the taliban would always be moving and nor worrying about static bases wich they would need to defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Remember seeing an interview on telly with an ex-Soviet general who was talking just after the US/Britain went into Afghanistan. He went on about how it would achieve nothing and any war there was un-winnable. Sadly no-one took a blind bit of notice of him or learned from the Soviet's mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Andy and others , no foreign power has ever conquered Afghanistan, ever. It was always a lost cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Well, after 13 years and over 400 UK troops killed in Afghanistan, Britain leaves today with swathes of the country still occupied by "the enemy"........................... ....Discuss....... I would like to know how many civilians were killed - directly by the westerns forces, and overall in the conflict That's just in Afghanistan. Not to mention the fallout from Guantanamo Bay... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/08/28/once-again-militants-use-guantanamos-orange-jumpsuit-in-an-execution/ Edited October 26, 2014 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I would like to know how many civilians were killed - directly by the westerns forces, and overall in the conflict That's just in Afghanistan. Not to mention the fallout from Guantanamo Bay... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/08/28/once-again-militants-use-guantanamos-orange-jumpsuit-in-an-execution/ I'm sure you'll get your wish. Now we're out the enquiries will begin and I've a feeling it won't be pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Let's hope so Stevie........but I seriously doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I would like to know how many civilians were killed - directly by the westerns forces, and overall in the conflict That's just in Afghanistan. Not to mention the fallout from Guantanamo Bay... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/08/28/once-again-militants-use-guantanamos-orange-jumpsuit-in-an-execution/ 20,000 just quoted on the news. Tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Well the real answer is we got poppy production up after the Taliban decided selling poppies and was unislamic in 2001 and destroyed most of the crops. 35 times increase in production now than in 2001. We also got the TAPI Pipeline through which wasn't happening in a taliban led Afghanistan. We also got access to multi trillion dollars worth of lithium/copper/thorium and all sorts of rare useful elements, hundreds of kilometers of it. Shit load of natural gas the soviets tapped into it briefly while in Afghanistan. Access to the eastern/southern border of Iran where they have had a huge wahhabi terrorist problem for over a decade now. OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM yay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 If the goal was to free up oil and heroin, then it's been a resounding success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 oh i forgot installation of a puppet regime as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Waste of time and life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 20,000 just quoted on the news. Tragic. Presumably the US could have 'taken out' the al Qaeda training camps (the original reason for invasion) without UK support. By that reckoning UK involvement was militarily optional and ultimately political - part of being seen to belong to the club of the 'big powers' or rather 'America's friends'. So you could see the British 400 military deaths as the price paid for UK to be seen to belong to that club. 20, 000 Afghans paid the price, for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKScot Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 13 Years A Slave To Democracy Capitalism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peever1745 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well, after 13 years and over 400 UK troops killed in Afghanistan, Britain leaves today with swathes of the country still occupied by "the enemy"........................... ....Discuss....... Britain and the USA were the enemy.They invade other countries with totally different cultures and try and force our values on them. Why can't they leave it to the people of these countries to sort their own shit out? Oh aye oil pipeline.What we have is another glorious defeat with 400 dead for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Britain and the USA were the enemy.They invade other countries with totally different cultures and try and force our values on them. Why can't they leave it to the people of these countries to sort their own shit out? Oh aye oil pipeline.What we have is another glorious defeat with 400 dead for nothing. As someone who served in Afghanistan and who's met many ordinary Afghans I don't believe it was for nothing. They now know there's something other than the Taliban or other oppressive regimes - the problem is they're not ready to rid themselves of it and I doubt they will be any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 As someone who served in Afghanistan and who's met many ordinary Afghans I don't believe it was for nothing. They now know there's something other than the Taliban or other oppressive regimes - the problem is they're not ready to rid themselves of it and I doubt they will be any time soon. Stevie how were you recieved by the ordinary Afghans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stevie how were you recieved by the ordinary Afghans? Pretty well for the most part. They were just as interested in learning about me as I was about them. There was a fear with many of them that to be seen talking to or working with us would mean trouble but most did. Regardless of what anyone may think of us having gone there (and I have my doubts as to motive myself) the guys on the ground did their best to help and protect the ordinary people but we were just too thinly spread. There was no way we were going to 'win' there, but we did what we could to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Cutler Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Well the real answer is we got poppy production up after the Taliban decided selling poppies and was unislamic in 2001 and destroyed most of the crops. 35 times increase in production now than in 2001. We also got the TAPI Pipeline through which wasn't happening in a taliban led Afghanistan. We also got access to multi trillion dollars worth of lithium/copper/thorium and all sorts of rare useful elements, hundreds of kilometers of it. Shit load of natural gas the soviets tapped into it briefly while in Afghanistan. Access to the eastern/southern border of Iran where they have had a huge wahhabi terrorist problem for over a decade now. OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM yay Recommended read - Taliban - Story of the Afghan Warlords - Ahmed Rashid from 2002 covers the same subject. Currently the Afghan army have already surrendered Sangin, due to massive loss of life in the past summer, more than the Britiish army suffered in the whole Afghan occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Recommended read - Taliban - Story of the Afghan Warlords - Ahmed Rashid from 2002 covers the same subject. Currently the Afghan army have already surrendered Sangin, due to massive loss of life in the past summer, more than the Britiish army suffered in the whole Afghan occupation. Cheers not read that will get a hold of it now. It was only £6.17 for kindle so just went and bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broono83 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well the real answer is we got poppy production up after the Taliban decided selling poppies and was unislamic in 2001 and destroyed most of the crops. 35 times increase in production now than in 2001. We also got the TAPI Pipeline through which wasn't happening in a taliban led Afghanistan. We also got access to multi trillion dollars worth of lithium/copper/thorium and all sorts of rare useful elements, hundreds of kilometers of it. Shit load of natural gas the soviets tapped into it briefly while in Afghanistan. Access to the eastern/southern border of Iran where they have had a huge wahhabi terrorist problem for over a decade now. OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM yay I was just saying to my mate the other day I wanted to read up on this exact subject. Any links, John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I was just saying to my mate the other day I wanted to read up on this exact subject. Any links, John? It's such a diverse subject Chris what sort of things are you looking for specifically? http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-gold-discovered-in-afghanistan/ Is about the mining, it dates back to 2007, however folk have found articles describing the minerals that pre-date this by decades so it was maybe "newly" discovered but the russians were talking about it as were the world in the 1970's whne they openly discussed how to exploit them. http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0610/Afghanistans_mineral_find_and_the_Washington_clock.html?showall here's some articles on the pipeline starting back in 1998 http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html here's a small chronology of heroin production in the golden triangle, it goes back thousands of years so scroll down. graph from BBC Some info on wahhabism http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cleo-paskal/expert-global-grand-allia_b_5520637.html Here's a thoprough academic article published in a journal on the drug war in Afghanistan, very detailed. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/14672715.2011.570569 Need anything specific let me know Chris, it's a big subject and i'm far from expert on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broono83 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I was basically just ranting about how I thought the whole war was a front to solidify heroin production and control the supply of it. I was looking for a book on it but I'll get a look at those later. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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