13 Years In Afghanistan

[peever1745]

As someone who served in Afghanistan and who's met many ordinary Afghans I don't believe it was for nothing. They now know there's something other than the Taliban or other oppressive regimes - the problem is they're not ready to rid themselves of it and I doubt they will be any time soon.

So how long will it take for the Taliban to gain complete control of the country?Six month to a year maybe? Once they do take over the killing will start again.Villages who were friendly with the occupying forces will be hit hard and will be worse off than they were before the invasion. Afghanistan may go the way Iraq went ie civil war that could last years.I don't think many Afghans will thank Britain and the USA for whats coming their way. When will the UK learn to stay out of other countries politics?These wars such as Iraq and Afghanistan are the reasons I don't wear a poppy.I respect those who fought and died in WW1 and WW2 as they were fighting for a freedom of sorts but all wars there after were for the greed of oil.

[phart]

I was basically just ranting about how I thought the whole war was a front to solidify heroin production and control the supply of it. I was looking for a book on it but I'll get a look at those later.

Cheers.

That paper i posted deals with that precisely also a pret-text for people affecting negatively western/american interests in the region.

[ZoltanBuchan]

Access to the eastern/southern border of Iran where they have had a huge wahhabi terrorist problem for over a decade now.

Am I right in thing that the Wahhabi doctrine is directly spread from Saudi? I do know that the Saudi/Wahhabi influence on young British Muslims, which cannot be understated due to, for example, the funding of madrasas etc, has been blamed by many for the increase in radicalisation in this country. But..the Saudis are our friends!

[Larky Masher]

The Lions Last Roar which was on last two Sundays (so probably still on the i-player) about the British involvement in Afghanistan was excellent.

[ZoltanBuchan]

Britain and the USA were the enemy.They invade other countries with totally different cultures and try and force our values on them. Why can't they leave it to the people of these countries to sort their own shit out?

This is actually the one thing that makes me think the whole 13 years wasn't an unqualified disaster. While I struggle to call it 'emancipation', the lives of Afghan women, from education to the burkha, have undoubtedly been changed for the better. Giving women access to education and removing the obligation to wear the burkha isn't 'forcing our values' on them, it's giving them basic human rights.

Having said that....

So how long will it take for the Taliban to gain complete control of the country?Six month to a year maybe? Once they do take over the killing will start again.

With the Taliban still very much active, I have a terrible feeling it's going to go back to square one almost immediately. The analogy I tend to use is:

Say the boot was on the other foot, and the Taliban invaded this country for 13 years and imposed Sharia Law. Would we keep to it after they left? Or, would the pubs be open 30 seconds after they'd gone?

I'm aware that the Taliban's lunatic take on Islam by no means represents centuries, or even decades, of Afghan culture, but if, and sadly almost certainly when, they're back in charge, it'll be back to how it was pre 2001.

[phart]

Am I right in thing that the Wahhabi doctrine is directly spread from Saudi? I do know that the Saudi/Wahhabi influence on young British Muslims, which cannot be understated due to, for example, the funding of madrasas etc, has been blamed by many for the increase in radicalisation in this country. But..the Saudis are our friends!

Aye that's my basic understanding. Saudi's also arm them, and have with Qatar been arming Free Syrian Army/ISIS/Al Qeada,, have public beheadings , and threatened Tony Blair with a "7/7" if he didn't drop the BAE investigation.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/15/bae.armstrade

[MacTaz]

We were never going to be ALLOWED to win in Afghan. The methods we would have had to have employed would have had the great British public up in arms AND the government were too scared of losing their places in the Westmidden trough. That is the advantage the baddies always have , they are answerable to nobody, whereas we have to operate under sometimes ludicrous restrictions and the threat of going to prison if you deviate in the slightest fro the rule book.

Cameron and Co then compound their incompetence by telling the Taliban that if they just sit tight for a couple of years they can move back in because we will be going home !! add in the fact that the Government then sent troops in inadequately equipped AND did nothing for years to rectify that shameful situation and the result is hardly surprising !! Lions led betrayed by donkeys yet again !!

[Scotty CTA]

it was a war we were never ment to win.

Correct.

Andy and others , no foreign power has ever conquered Afghanistan, ever. It was always a lost cause.

Not if you know what the cause really is.

Well the real answer is we got poppy production up after the Taliban decided selling poppies and was unislamic in 2001 and destroyed most of the crops. 35 times increase in production now than in 2001.

We also got the TAPI Pipeline through which wasn't happening in a taliban led Afghanistan.

We also got access to multi trillion dollars worth of lithium/copper/thorium and all sorts of rare useful elements, hundreds of kilometers of it.

Shit load of natural gas the soviets tapped into it briefly while in Afghanistan.

Access to the eastern/southern border of Iran where they have had a huge wahhabi terrorist problem for over a decade now.

OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM yay

Yep.

If the goal was to free up oil and heroin, then it's been a resounding success

That's the cover. (Keep peeling away at the layers of the onion.)

Pretty well for the most part. They were just as interested in learning about me as I was about them. There was a fear with many of them that to be seen talking to or working with us would mean trouble but most did. Regardless of what anyone may think of us having gone there (and I have my doubts as to motive myself) the guys on the ground did their best to help and protect the ordinary people but we were just too thinly spread. There was no way we were going to 'win' there, but we did what we could to help.

Thank you for serving, Stevie!

(You Are Loved!)

[the lunger]

I came across this quote by General McArthur, it seem quite appropriate.

"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency."

[peever1745]

How many armies have tried to defeat the Afghans in the past few hundred years? How many have won? This was a war that could not be won not was never meant to be won.

[Bristolhibby]

The West had a chance after we backed the mujahideen in kicking the Soviets out.

If the West had have thrown money at Infrastructure, education (for all), employment, subsidising farmers not to grow poppies, we could have "bought" stability.

Instead Americia thought giving the Soviets some payback for Vietnam was enough. It never was.

Building nations is never Americias strong point. Destroying them and holding the people at gunpoint while pillaging their resources is.

And they wonder why half of the world hates them?

J

[broono83]

Building nations is never Americias strong point. Destroying them and holding the people at gunpoint while pillaging their resources is.

And they wonder why half of the world hates them?

J

To be fair this would apply to the british empire for the previous few hundred years too.

[Bristolhibby]

To be fair this would apply to the british empire for the previous few hundred years too.

Absolutely. We were not blameless. Pillaging the sub continent and monopolising trade. But that was the "done thing" in those days. No Twitter or Internet then.

J