Indyref 2 (2)

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, scotlad said:

Nae bother.

I'm still not so sure, but if you're right, the SNP truly are in a bad place.  I mean, have you seen the wee dweeb that Labour are fielding?  If they can't at the very least run him close then they're in trouble.

I am a bit unsure about the best thing to do in  this seat. The SNP need a wake up call but putting up a non SNP unity candidate , if successful, would perhaps just make them think that any independence candidate would have won. 

Alternatively , if a unity candidate was put up and actually had a mare  it would reflect badly on the desire for independence. I have no concerns about the demand for independence out there but there is a definite malaise just now and people may just not turn out. If the SNP lost the seat you could perhaps blame it, rightly or wrongly,  on Margaret Ferrier, but if an unblemished unity candidate lost it then it would be easy to point the finger and say nobody wants independence  

Maybe it needs Labour to win convincingly , if the guy is shit he will soon be found out. Either way it will give the SNP a shake. 

[TDYER63]

6 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

by no means would a good old leaflet do the trick but I cant remember the last time we received any marketing from the SNP or pro-independence for that matter.  You used to get more 20 years ago than you do now.  I don't know how that is possible given the uptick in subs.  would it not have been a good idea to re-assemble a joint scotland independence campaign purely to bombard people with material and billboards to keep the issue at least visible.  i recall hearing a certain journalist aghast at the Yes posters and visibility years ago as a real threat.

In catalonia they have the national assembly separate to the parties.  There are not loads of ideas to take from their campagin but, to me, this is one of them.

I was listening to the founder of Saatchi and Saatchi the other day and it got me thinking the SNP need a rebrand.  

Give us ten reasons for independence and blanket market every home Scotland.  How can CR Smith do it and we can't haha.

 

I have organised distribution of 8000 independence leaflet from the SNP in our area. The leaflet is there for every branch of the party if they were interested. I have no idea how many were taken up. Some folk think leafleting is a waste of time, my branch is very traditional and still encourage leafleting. 

The leaflet is, IMO, a bit meh. But its better than nothing. I feel they could have been a bit more adventurous. There was no need for Humzas  face to take up almost 1/4 of the front page. 

One house I delivered to had Union Jack flags and wee Charles and Camilla gnomes everywhere in the garden 😂 I was at the next house when I heard the unionists door open and they threw the leaflet out. Onto their own garden path 🙄

Its still gonna be there tomorrow for you to pick up mate 👍 

The leaflet..

[aaid]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I am a bit unsure about the best thing to do in  this seat. The SNP need a wake up call but putting up a non SNP unity candidate , if successful, would perhaps just make them think that any independence candidate would have won. 

Alternatively , if a unity candidate was put up and actually had a mare  it would reflect badly on the desire for independence. I have no concerns about the demand for independence out there but there is a definite malaise just now and people may just not turn out. If the SNP lost the seat you could perhaps blame it, rightly or wrongly,  on Margaret Ferrier, but if an unblemished unity candidate lost it then it would be easy to point the finger and say nobody wants independence  

Maybe it needs Labour to win convincingly , if the guy is shit he will soon be found out. Either way it will give the SNP a shake. 

The other thing to remember is that R&HW is very much a marginal seat, it is not some rock solid safe SNP seat.  It’s flipped between the SNP and Labour in 2015, 2017 and 2019.

This has been tipped to flip for the last couple of years.  

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

This has been tipped to flip for the last couple of years.  

Why would that be ?

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Why would that be ?

When the SNP vote was relatively static but Labour was making inroads into the Tory vote because of Boris Johnson. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

When the SNP vote was relatively static but Labour was making inroads into the Tory vote because of Boris Johnson. 

Scottish Labour offer nothing to the Scottish Electorate compared to the SNP and they have already more or less said they will reign back on many SNP progressive policies that currently benefit the majority of the electorate 

So again - why would Labour be 1/9 shots to retake any seat in Scotland ?

I'll wait

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Scottish Labour offer nothing to the Scottish Electorate compared to the SNP and they have already more or less said they will reign back on many SNP progressive policies that currently benefit the majority of the electorate 

So again - why would Labour be 1/9 shots to retake any seat in Scotland ?

I'll wait

Do you really want me to give you the dummy’s guide to polls and relative swings?  I’ll give you a clue, it’s all about numbers and not about policies.

[Ally Bongo]

Just now, aaid said:

Do you really want me to give you the dummy’s guide to polls and relative swings?  I’ll give you a clue, it’s all about numbers and not about policies.

So it's definitely nothing to do with the SNP then ?

Thought not ...

[PapofGlencoe]

15 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I have organised distribution of 8000 independence leaflet from the SNP in our area. The leaflet is there for every branch of the party if they were interested. I have no idea how many were taken up. Some folk think leafleting is a waste of time, my branch is very traditional and still encourage leafleting. 

The leaflet is, IMO, a bit meh. But its better than nothing. I feel they could have been a bit more adventurous. There was no need for Humzas  face to take up almost 1/4 of the front page. 

One house I delivered to had Union Jack flags and wee Charles and Camilla gnomes everywhere in the garden 😂 I was at the next house when I heard the unionists door open and they threw the leaflet out. Onto their own garden path 🙄

Its still gonna be there tomorrow for you to pick up mate 👍 

The leaflet..

That's ...actually good to hear. 👍

exactly the sort of thing they should be doing. 

to my Saatchi and Saatchi point, the leaflet itself could be better right enough.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

KF calling for a revote on the bute house agreement,, common sense if you ask me 

[Ally Bongo]

At a fringe event Mhairi Black called those that are gender critical "50 year old Karens"

She also compared those that are gender critical to white supremacists

When Humza Yousaf was asked about the first smear he said he did not know what it meant & apologised for "being out of the loop" on such things

This is the current SNP - a party that wanked themselves silly to throw a hard working Independence MP under the bus and hand her seat to Unionists -  yet more or less deems these comments acceptable

The SNP are not just a barrier to Independence but a complete liability

[Ally Bongo]

https://www.barrheadboy.com/infiltration-of-the-snp/

A Guest Post by Campbell Martin.

 

I’m Campbell Martin. I’m a journalist and author, and a former Member of the Scottish Parliament.

 

I recently had a conversation with Roddy MacLeod, Barrhead Boy of Through A Scottish Prism. Roddy reminded me of a time when some people considered me to be a rising star of the Scottish National Party, which, in turn, reminded me of an article in a newspaper from when I was an MSP. The article stated: “Martin is spoken of as a possible future leader of the SNP,” but it concluded with a quote from an unnamed SNP parliamentary colleague, which said: “Yeah, but there are a number of us who will do whatever it takes to make sure that never happens” – and they did.

I was elected as an SNP MSP in 2003…and expelled by the party in 2004. That has to be some sort of a record. It only took them a year to decide they had to get rid of me. I was the first SNP parliamentarian to be expelled by the party and the first MSP of any party to be expelled.

 

My ‘offence’ that led to my expulsion was to have publicly criticised the ‘leadership’ of John Swinney – the Doyen of Devolution – and to have argued that the SNP should be demanding ‘independence, nothing less’, rather than seeking to manage the devolved Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom.

My time at the Scottish Parliament actually started in its first days, in 1999. I was employed as the Parliamentary Assistant to the legendary Kay Ullrich. In addition to constituency work, I helped Kay in her role as the SNP Shadow Minister for Health and Community Care. In 2000, when Kay became the SNP Chief Whip, I moved with her to the Whips Office and took on the role of SNP Whips Administrator. This position meant I was privy to a lot of sensitive information about SNP MSPs. In my autobiography – Was It Something I Said? – I set-out some of the issues we had to deal with in the Whips Office. I’ll refer to all three of my books at the end of this piece.

 

Back in those very early days of the Scottish Parliament, I remember having a conversation with a few SNP MSPs about how many people on the SNP floor of the parliamentary offices would actually be working for the other side, for the British State. It seemed to us to be a certainty that there would be British State assets amongst us, both MSPs and staffers. It was, and remains, insane to think that the British State would not have infiltrated the SNP, a political party that claimed to have as its raison d’etre the break-up of the British State.

The difference between those early days of the Scottish Parliament and today, is that the British State assets in the SNP have, over the intervening years, risen-through the ranks and now hold senior positions that have allowed them to influence party policies and direction, such as adopting a lack of urgency in delivering independence…and that’s putting it mildly.

 

John Swinney has always been a devolutionist. He once told me he admired what Tony Blair had done with the Labour Party, and his ambition was to re-create that transformation with the SNP, to create New SNP. His plan was for the SNP to copy New Labour by moving the party from its traditional, moderate left-of-centre position to adopting a moderate, right-of-centre position. As happened with New Labour, Swinney’s vision was for New SNP to become a Tory-lite party, and that is what happened when he succeeded Alex Salmond as party leader in 2000.

Swinney almost killed the SNP, which was why I spoke-out publicly, calling for him to resign and for Alex Salmond to return as party leader.

 

I was expelled in 2004, just before Swinney resigned as leader. He orchestrated my expulsion, which he demanded should happen before he tendered his resignation. Within a couple of weeks, Alex Salmond returned and saved the SNP.

 

I was approached about re-joining the party, but I asked why I would want to be a member of a political party that had broken its own constitution and rules in order to expel me, and I declined the invitation. I served the remaining three-years of the parliamentary term as an Independent MSP, sitting beside a legend of the independence movement who also found herself outside of the SNP, a woman who became a great friend of mine, Margo MacDonald.

Having saved the SNP, Alex Salmond turned around the party’s fortunes and took Scotland to the brink of independence in the 2014 referendum. Sadly, the immediate aftermath of the referendum saw what I believe was a rare error on Alex’s part: he decided he should stand down as leader. I don’t think he had to stand down, but as a man of integrity he probably felt he failed to deliver for the independence movement. I think that judgement was too harsh. If Alex had remained leader of the SNP in 2014, I firmly believe Scotland would be an independent country today.

 

What we got, though, when Alex stood down, was a return to devolutionist leadership of the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon was the new leader, but Devo-John (Swinney) was back in a very influential position. This also brings us back to British State infiltration of the SNP.

 

Within espionage circles there are four accepted reasons for why people betray a cause. The acronym for those reasons is M-I-C-E (Mice), which stands for: M – money; I – ideology; C- compromise; and E – ego. Compromise is, essentially, blackmail. I’ll leave it to others to decide who within the SNP might fall into each category.

It’s also worth mentioning that there are different types of traitors. Not everyone is an agent of MI5 or Special Branch: some are known as ‘assets’. Their job is simply to listen to what they hear from colleagues or party members, and pass-back anything they think would be of interest to the British State. Agents are different: they have been placed within an organisation, such as the SNP, and have been given specific tasks to carry out. Tasks such as undermining the organisation and neutralising its effectiveness in challenging the control of the British State.

 

How many British State agents and assets are there within the SNP? Who knows? Well, obviously, the British State knows. I will say, though, that I remember reading a statement made by a former Special Branch agent who had infiltrated the Socialist Workers Party. The SWP was a tiny left-wing political party, but it had been so heavily infiltrated that the agent recorded in his statement that he felt when he attended some meetings most people there were either MI5 or Special Branch. Agents and Assets didn’t know each other, they were all carrying out their roles independently.

 

If the British State had so heavily infiltrated a tiny socialist party, how much attention would it have directed to a Scottish political party that had risen to the brink of power?

Today, after all that has happened, I still see some SNP loyalists claiming the party has not been infiltrated. That assertion is just insane.

 

During ‘the troubles’ in the north of Ireland, the British State had infiltrated the IRA to such an extent that one its agents was a man called Freddie Scapiticci, codenamed ‘Steaknife’. Scapiticci was the IRA’s Head of Internal Security, and he was an MI5 agent.

 

In the 1970s, when British governments feared powerful trade unions, particularly the National Union of Mineworkers, a Special Branch agent was a man called Joe Gormley: he was the National President of the Mineworkers Union. You can’t get higher than National President, and he was a Special Branch asset.

 

In the bitter, year-long Miners’ Strike of 1984-85, papers prepared for then Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher showed MI5 were receiving reports from one of their agents called Roger Windsor. Windsor was the Chief Executive of the NUM.

Still, though, SNP loyalists argue the British State has not infiltrated the party.

 

In 1984, a woman called Cathy Massiter went public about her former work as an MI5 officer. One of the reasons Cathy Massiter gave for leaving MI5 was that the job had changed, she said it had become more political. She added that the role of MI5 had changed from counter-espionage to domestic surveillance.

 

Recently, I spoke with a senior serving-officer of Police Scotland. They spoke on condition of anonymity and stated there were some questions they would not answer.

I started the interview with the core question: has Police Scotland infiltrated the SNP? The officer replied that they could not answer that question. Before I said anything more, the officer added, ‘Although, by giving that answer, I have probably told you what you want to know’.

 

Police Scotland does not actually have a Special Branch, but if you press them on the matter, they do admit to having officers who carry out duties that are normally associated with the work of a Special Branch.

 

One other thing the Police Scotland officer said chimed with what Cathy Massiter said when she left MI5. The officer said that since the creation of Police Scotland, the job had become much more political. They felt that the most senior officers in the force were taking direction from politicians and Civil Servants. They also offered the opinion that the same relationships existed in the Crown Office Procurator Fiscal Service.

If that is the case, it certainly explains some recent prosecutions in Scotland. It would also throw light onto the comment by outgoing Police Scotland Chief Constable Iain Livingstone, when he told The Times newspaper that, “our close relationship with Nicola Sturgeon complicated the criminal investigation into the SNP’s finances”.

 

I used to know Nicola well. We are both from North Ayrshire and cut our political-teeth fighting a dominant Labour Party in our local area. We also later served together as SNP MSPs, albeit for only a year, before the party expelled me.

 

Nicola’s leadership of the SNP – with the input of Devo-John Swinney and Angus ‘BBC World Service’ Robertson – has returned the party to the brink of disaster. Back in the mists of time, I once suggested that Swinney and his clique were not interested in independence. They would take it if it fell into their laps, but they were never going to fight for it. All they wanted was to get their backsides onto the back-seats of Ministerial Mondeos and to be ‘important’ Government Ministers in a devolved Scottish government within the British Union.

How captured the SNP has become was encapsulated for me in the final letter Nicola Sturgeon wrote as First Minister of Scotland. It was a letter of resignation to the English King, Charles III. The final sentence of the letter, just above Nicola Sturgeon’s signature, read: ‘I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Majesty’s humble and obedient servant’.

 

No-one who sees Scotland as a progressive, potentially independent country, could have signed their name to such a grovelling letter to the pinnacle of the English/British establishment. To also see Nicola and then Humza Yousaf bow their heads to the English King confirmed the total capture of the SNP by the British State.

 

When I saw Nicola’s letter and the bowing and scraping to the English King, I was reminded of an incident that took place in Ireland in 1916, shortly after the Easter Rising by Irish freedom-fighters.

Edinburgh-born James Connolly was the Commander of the Irish Citizens Army at the rising. He had been so badly wounded during the fighting that the British had to strap him to a chair in order to execute him by firing squad.

 

A few days later, Lillie Connolly, James’ widow, went to the British headquarters to retrieve her husband’s effects. She was met by the man who had ordered James’ execution, Major General Sir John Maxwell, who held out his hand as Lillie approached him. Lillie held his gaze and her hands remained firmly behind her back.

 

One of the many messages Scots need to learn from Ireland is the actions of Lillie Connolly. Some things do not deserve civility or respect or obedience. She faced-down the authority and power of the English. While Scotland has leaders who bow to the English King, and who sign letters as the King’s ‘humble and obedient servant’, Scotland will never be an independent country.

The SNP is completely compromised, it has been captured and controlled by the British State. I’m now in my sixties and for the first time in my life I am thinking that I might not see independence. In the last two years, four of my best friends have died. They all supported independence and voted SNP. They never lived to see the sun rise on the morning of Independence Day. I know all of us have lost such friends who fought so hard over the years for independence, but never lived to see it.

 

The reality we face means we may have to go back to square-one and start all over again, build the independence movement all over again, through the Alba Party led by Alex Salmond. There are so many of us who built the SNP from a party on the fringes of the political spectrum to a party the people of Scotland trusted sufficiently to put them into government. If we have to do it all over again, we can. This time, though, we need to look out for those whose loyalties lie not with the interests of Scotland, but in maintaining British State control of our people and assets.

You have to hand it to the British State, it has played a blinder: today’s SNP is so corrupted by British agents that it has sidelined independence and embraced gender policies that make the party unelectable. For the British State that is job done.

 

However, the people of Scotland are the sovereign power, not the SNP. In terms of the Independence Movement, the SNP is the past. The future is Scotland United for Independence. One pro-independence candidate in each constituency that the people can unite behind.

 

Despite the SNP, independence is still achievable.

Finally, I mentioned my books. My life-story is covered in my first book – Was It Something I Said? – including my time in politics and what actually happened during my time in the SNP Whips Office, and as a Member of the Scottish Parliament. My two other books, Outspoken – Part One and Outspoken – Part Two, take us through the eventful last ten-years of Scottish and UK politics, from the Independence Referendum to the present day and the British State capture of the SNP.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

time for us true snp members to take a stand before it really is too late

[Hertsscot]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://www.barrheadboy.com/infiltration-of-the-snp/

A Guest Post by Campbell Martin.

 

I’m Campbell Martin. I’m a journalist and author, and a former Member of the Scottish Parliament.

 

I recently had a conversation with Roddy MacLeod, Barrhead Boy of Through A Scottish Prism. Roddy reminded me of a time when some people considered me to be a rising star of the Scottish National Party, which, in turn, reminded me of an article in a newspaper from when I was an MSP. The article stated: “Martin is spoken of as a possible future leader of the SNP,” but it concluded with a quote from an unnamed SNP parliamentary colleague, which said: “Yeah, but there are a number of us who will do whatever it takes to make sure that never happens” – and they did.

I was elected as an SNP MSP in 2003…and expelled by the party in 2004. That has to be some sort of a record. It only took them a year to decide they had to get rid of me. I was the first SNP parliamentarian to be expelled by the party and the first MSP of any party to be expelled.

 

My ‘offence’ that led to my expulsion was to have publicly criticised the ‘leadership’ of John Swinney – the Doyen of Devolution – and to have argued that the SNP should be demanding ‘independence, nothing less’, rather than seeking to manage the devolved Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom.

My time at the Scottish Parliament actually started in its first days, in 1999. I was employed as the Parliamentary Assistant to the legendary Kay Ullrich. In addition to constituency work, I helped Kay in her role as the SNP Shadow Minister for Health and Community Care. In 2000, when Kay became the SNP Chief Whip, I moved with her to the Whips Office and took on the role of SNP Whips Administrator. This position meant I was privy to a lot of sensitive information about SNP MSPs. In my autobiography – Was It Something I Said? – I set-out some of the issues we had to deal with in the Whips Office. I’ll refer to all three of my books at the end of this piece.

 

Back in those very early days of the Scottish Parliament, I remember having a conversation with a few SNP MSPs about how many people on the SNP floor of the parliamentary offices would actually be working for the other side, for the British State. It seemed to us to be a certainty that there would be British State assets amongst us, both MSPs and staffers. It was, and remains, insane to think that the British State would not have infiltrated the SNP, a political party that claimed to have as its raison d’etre the break-up of the British State.

The difference between those early days of the Scottish Parliament and today, is that the British State assets in the SNP have, over the intervening years, risen-through the ranks and now hold senior positions that have allowed them to influence party policies and direction, such as adopting a lack of urgency in delivering independence…and that’s putting it mildly.

 

John Swinney has always been a devolutionist. He once told me he admired what Tony Blair had done with the Labour Party, and his ambition was to re-create that transformation with the SNP, to create New SNP. His plan was for the SNP to copy New Labour by moving the party from its traditional, moderate left-of-centre position to adopting a moderate, right-of-centre position. As happened with New Labour, Swinney’s vision was for New SNP to become a Tory-lite party, and that is what happened when he succeeded Alex Salmond as party leader in 2000.

Swinney almost killed the SNP, which was why I spoke-out publicly, calling for him to resign and for Alex Salmond to return as party leader.

 

I was expelled in 2004, just before Swinney resigned as leader. He orchestrated my expulsion, which he demanded should happen before he tendered his resignation. Within a couple of weeks, Alex Salmond returned and saved the SNP.

 

I was approached about re-joining the party, but I asked why I would want to be a member of a political party that had broken its own constitution and rules in order to expel me, and I declined the invitation. I served the remaining three-years of the parliamentary term as an Independent MSP, sitting beside a legend of the independence movement who also found herself outside of the SNP, a woman who became a great friend of mine, Margo MacDonald.

Having saved the SNP, Alex Salmond turned around the party’s fortunes and took Scotland to the brink of independence in the 2014 referendum. Sadly, the immediate aftermath of the referendum saw what I believe was a rare error on Alex’s part: he decided he should stand down as leader. I don’t think he had to stand down, but as a man of integrity he probably felt he failed to deliver for the independence movement. I think that judgement was too harsh. If Alex had remained leader of the SNP in 2014, I firmly believe Scotland would be an independent country today.

 

What we got, though, when Alex stood down, was a return to devolutionist leadership of the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon was the new leader, but Devo-John (Swinney) was back in a very influential position. This also brings us back to British State infiltration of the SNP.

 

Within espionage circles there are four accepted reasons for why people betray a cause. The acronym for those reasons is M-I-C-E (Mice), which stands for: M – money; I – ideology; C- compromise; and E – ego. Compromise is, essentially, blackmail. I’ll leave it to others to decide who within the SNP might fall into each category.

It’s also worth mentioning that there are different types of traitors. Not everyone is an agent of MI5 or Special Branch: some are known as ‘assets’. Their job is simply to listen to what they hear from colleagues or party members, and pass-back anything they think would be of interest to the British State. Agents are different: they have been placed within an organisation, such as the SNP, and have been given specific tasks to carry out. Tasks such as undermining the organisation and neutralising its effectiveness in challenging the control of the British State.

 

How many British State agents and assets are there within the SNP? Who knows? Well, obviously, the British State knows. I will say, though, that I remember reading a statement made by a former Special Branch agent who had infiltrated the Socialist Workers Party. The SWP was a tiny left-wing political party, but it had been so heavily infiltrated that the agent recorded in his statement that he felt when he attended some meetings most people there were either MI5 or Special Branch. Agents and Assets didn’t know each other, they were all carrying out their roles independently.

 

If the British State had so heavily infiltrated a tiny socialist party, how much attention would it have directed to a Scottish political party that had risen to the brink of power?

Today, after all that has happened, I still see some SNP loyalists claiming the party has not been infiltrated. That assertion is just insane.

 

During ‘the troubles’ in the north of Ireland, the British State had infiltrated the IRA to such an extent that one its agents was a man called Freddie Scapiticci, codenamed ‘Steaknife’. Scapiticci was the IRA’s Head of Internal Security, and he was an MI5 agent.

 

In the 1970s, when British governments feared powerful trade unions, particularly the National Union of Mineworkers, a Special Branch agent was a man called Joe Gormley: he was the National President of the Mineworkers Union. You can’t get higher than National President, and he was a Special Branch asset.

 

In the bitter, year-long Miners’ Strike of 1984-85, papers prepared for then Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher showed MI5 were receiving reports from one of their agents called Roger Windsor. Windsor was the Chief Executive of the NUM.

Still, though, SNP loyalists argue the British State has not infiltrated the party.

 

In 1984, a woman called Cathy Massiter went public about her former work as an MI5 officer. One of the reasons Cathy Massiter gave for leaving MI5 was that the job had changed, she said it had become more political. She added that the role of MI5 had changed from counter-espionage to domestic surveillance.

 

Recently, I spoke with a senior serving-officer of Police Scotland. They spoke on condition of anonymity and stated there were some questions they would not answer.

I started the interview with the core question: has Police Scotland infiltrated the SNP? The officer replied that they could not answer that question. Before I said anything more, the officer added, ‘Although, by giving that answer, I have probably told you what you want to know’.

 

Police Scotland does not actually have a Special Branch, but if you press them on the matter, they do admit to having officers who carry out duties that are normally associated with the work of a Special Branch.

 

One other thing the Police Scotland officer said chimed with what Cathy Massiter said when she left MI5. The officer said that since the creation of Police Scotland, the job had become much more political. They felt that the most senior officers in the force were taking direction from politicians and Civil Servants. They also offered the opinion that the same relationships existed in the Crown Office Procurator Fiscal Service.

If that is the case, it certainly explains some recent prosecutions in Scotland. It would also throw light onto the comment by outgoing Police Scotland Chief Constable Iain Livingstone, when he told The Times newspaper that, “our close relationship with Nicola Sturgeon complicated the criminal investigation into the SNP’s finances”.

 

I used to know Nicola well. We are both from North Ayrshire and cut our political-teeth fighting a dominant Labour Party in our local area. We also later served together as SNP MSPs, albeit for only a year, before the party expelled me.

 

Nicola’s leadership of the SNP – with the input of Devo-John Swinney and Angus ‘BBC World Service’ Robertson – has returned the party to the brink of disaster. Back in the mists of time, I once suggested that Swinney and his clique were not interested in independence. They would take it if it fell into their laps, but they were never going to fight for it. All they wanted was to get their backsides onto the back-seats of Ministerial Mondeos and to be ‘important’ Government Ministers in a devolved Scottish government within the British Union.

How captured the SNP has become was encapsulated for me in the final letter Nicola Sturgeon wrote as First Minister of Scotland. It was a letter of resignation to the English King, Charles III. The final sentence of the letter, just above Nicola Sturgeon’s signature, read: ‘I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Majesty’s humble and obedient servant’.

 

No-one who sees Scotland as a progressive, potentially independent country, could have signed their name to such a grovelling letter to the pinnacle of the English/British establishment. To also see Nicola and then Humza Yousaf bow their heads to the English King confirmed the total capture of the SNP by the British State.

 

When I saw Nicola’s letter and the bowing and scraping to the English King, I was reminded of an incident that took place in Ireland in 1916, shortly after the Easter Rising by Irish freedom-fighters.

Edinburgh-born James Connolly was the Commander of the Irish Citizens Army at the rising. He had been so badly wounded during the fighting that the British had to strap him to a chair in order to execute him by firing squad.

 

A few days later, Lillie Connolly, James’ widow, went to the British headquarters to retrieve her husband’s effects. She was met by the man who had ordered James’ execution, Major General Sir John Maxwell, who held out his hand as Lillie approached him. Lillie held his gaze and her hands remained firmly behind her back.

 

One of the many messages Scots need to learn from Ireland is the actions of Lillie Connolly. Some things do not deserve civility or respect or obedience. She faced-down the authority and power of the English. While Scotland has leaders who bow to the English King, and who sign letters as the King’s ‘humble and obedient servant’, Scotland will never be an independent country.

The SNP is completely compromised, it has been captured and controlled by the British State. I’m now in my sixties and for the first time in my life I am thinking that I might not see independence. In the last two years, four of my best friends have died. They all supported independence and voted SNP. They never lived to see the sun rise on the morning of Independence Day. I know all of us have lost such friends who fought so hard over the years for independence, but never lived to see it.

 

The reality we face means we may have to go back to square-one and start all over again, build the independence movement all over again, through the Alba Party led by Alex Salmond. There are so many of us who built the SNP from a party on the fringes of the political spectrum to a party the people of Scotland trusted sufficiently to put them into government. If we have to do it all over again, we can. This time, though, we need to look out for those whose loyalties lie not with the interests of Scotland, but in maintaining British State control of our people and assets.

You have to hand it to the British State, it has played a blinder: today’s SNP is so corrupted by British agents that it has sidelined independence and embraced gender policies that make the party unelectable. For the British State that is job done.

 

However, the people of Scotland are the sovereign power, not the SNP. In terms of the Independence Movement, the SNP is the past. The future is Scotland United for Independence. One pro-independence candidate in each constituency that the people can unite behind.

 

Despite the SNP, independence is still achievable.

Finally, I mentioned my books. My life-story is covered in my first book – Was It Something I Said? – including my time in politics and what actually happened during my time in the SNP Whips Office, and as a Member of the Scottish Parliament. My two other books, Outspoken – Part One and Outspoken – Part Two, take us through the eventful last ten-years of Scottish and UK politics, from the Independence Referendum to the present day and the British State capture of the SNP.

 

It's certainly not impossible that SNP have been compromised but the same has also be said about some of the extreme anti-SNP voices who seem to spend more of their time slagging off the SNP than telling us why we should be leaving the Union.

I guess that just leaves the rest of us Indy supporters of whatever party trying to do our best, trying to tone down the vitriol against other indy supporters, not always thinking the worst of one another, ignoring those who are constantly trying to stir up muck and remembering that 'divide and conquer' is the Empire's way. When we're at one another's throats, there's only one cause that wins-and it's not independence.

[Alibi]

3 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

It's certainly not impossible that SNP have been compromised but the same has also be said about some of the extreme anti-SNP voices who seem to spend more of their time slagging off the SNP than telling us why we should be leaving the Union.

I guess that just leaves the rest of us Indy supporters of whatever party trying to do our best, trying to tone down the vitriol against other indy supporters, not always thinking the worst of one another, ignoring those who are constantly trying to stir up muck and remembering that 'divide and conquer' is the Empire's way. When we're at one another's throats, there's only one cause that wins-and it's not independence.

I have no doubt that a lot of the extreme anti-SNP voices are British state actors.  However there are a lot of remaining SNP members who are genuinely appalled at what the leadership has become since about 2017.  It's as if the leadership is trying to destroy the party from within by coming up with unpopular policies and daft ideas - the greens are a big part of the problem but that article  above rings true.

[Ally Bongo]

https://kennymacaskillmp.scot/turkeys-voting-for-an-early-xmas-10-august-2023

Back in 1979 when the SNP voted to bring down Jim Callaghan’s Government, the then Prime Minister described them as “turkey’s voting for an early Christmas”. His administration fell through deeper factors than the confidence vote, but he was right in his prophesy as SNP were mauled in the election.

In helping bring about the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election the SNP leadership are doing likewise decades on and will again face a thrashing. Blame can’t all be laid at Humza Yousaf’s door as the actions against Margaret Ferrier were initiated by his predecessor, but he did nothing to hold back party attack dogs.

Labour clamouring for a by-election was to be expected. But the glee with which SNP leadership pursued Margaret Ferrier was shameful and lacking in any tactical nous. For sure she had done wrong, but she admitted it, was heavily punished by the courts, and when numerous others faced either no charge or simply fixed penalties.

She was a dedicated and extremely hard-working MP and despite the monstering in the press that seems vindicated in the recall petition. Despite six weeks of a multi-party campaign to have folk sign up for her demise, including a direct mailshot from the council, the threshold of 10% was only just surpassed. And significantly more voted for her than ever sought to recall her. The frenzy of politicians wasn’t reflected in the wider public. But it’s done now.

The SNP’s positioning was morally reprehensible in its treatment of someone who had been a Party stalwart whilst the sins of colleagues were either ignored or treated lightly. As ever in the Sturgeon regime it was whether you were part of the “in-crowd” and she certainly wasn’t. Beyond that though its simply political self-harm of a gargantuan nature for the SNP.

By-elections are a referendum on the government but in Scotland we have two. This may be for Westminster but as many will be voting against the SNP/Green administration as Sunak’s. Holyrods closer and politics is local. The unionist vote will coalesce around Labour to give both the Holyrood administration and independence a kicking.

Meanwhile the SNP will struggle to mobilise it’s support, let alone galvanise that of the wider Yes Movement. Many who supported Margaret Ferrier will be disgusted and stay at home. Portraying Labour as Tory lite is correct but justifies not voting Labour, as opposed to supporting SNP.

Of course, the wider movement largely supports the radical calls and rightly disdains Starmer. The government and opposition in Westminster may swap benches but life in Scotland will remain the same. That’s misery and penury for many, which’s why the real motivation for the movement’s independence.

But seeking support for it in a by-election when you previously promised a “No Ifs, No Buts” referendum that same month rings hollow. Worsening that the Supreme Court considering the GRA in the run up to the vote will simply highlight where the SNP focus has been under Sturgeon.

As the landslide of 2015 was her inheritance, largely delivered by her predecessor, this by-election gubbing will be her legacy, even if inherited by her successor. If Yousaf want’s to avoid the debacle he can sign up for Scotland United, otherwise the electorate I sense will deliver a harsh judgment on Sturgeons legacy and Continuity SNP.   

[PapofGlencoe]

I can't agree Ferrier should have been spared to be honest.  

Covering up for their own is the type of thing Scottish Labour would have done back in the day.  Point of SNP and MPs, in general, is we expect a higher level of conduct.

How would it have looked if Ferrier had been allowed to remain?  Not good.

 

Interesting article from Campbell Martin.  It's hard to disagree with the idea the state would infiltrate the SNP given the factual events of the past.  If that's a given, it does make you wonder.  But I really struggle to understand why Swinney would be mentioned.  People seem to be forgetting the power of work Swinney, Sturgeon, Robertson, Salmond did during 2012-2014 - i.e. when it mattered most.  They went up against the entire British state and gave them a bloody nose.

It's also as possible they're simply listening to phones and emails as per pegaus in Catalonia and Spanish secret police.  Highly doubt Britain is above that kind of thing.

The ones sniping obsessively at the SNP and attempting to turn the movement in on itself are as likely candidates as any too.

[AlfieMoon]

5 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I can't agree Ferrier should have been spared to be honest.  

Covering up for their own is the type of thing Scottish Labour would have done back in the day.  Point of SNP and MPs, in general, is we expect a higher level of conduct.

How would it have looked if Ferrier had been allowed to remain?  Not good.

 

Interesting article from Campbell Martin.  It's hard to disagree with the idea the state would infiltrate the SNP given the factual events of the past.  If that's a given, it does make you wonder.  But I really struggle to understand why Swinney would be mentioned.  People seem to be forgetting the power of work Swinney, Sturgeon, Robertson, Salmond did during 2012-2014 - i.e. when it mattered most.  They went up against the entire British state and gave them a bloody nose.

It's also as possible they're simply listening to phones and emails as per pegaus in Catalonia and Spanish secret police.  Highly doubt Britain is above that kind of thing.

The ones sniping obsessively at the SNP and attempting to turn the movement in on itself are as likely candidates as any too.

I don’t disagree with you, but the interesting conundrum that this brings is that the more successful a party becomes, the more they grow in numbers/seats and more scrutiny and more media exposure comes with it. Human nature being what it is, folk will always do stupid things and politicians are no exception - even if we, the public, want to hold them to greater accountability. 
 

That all tells us that even ‘good’ political parties will end up on the back foot time and again. The question is then a matter of how they handle it and how it damages their short/mid/long term ambitions. 
 

Rightly or wrongly, I look at the way the Tories almost always close ranks and deflect everything - and does it genuinely damage them to any great extent when most stuff blows over?? If a party is repeatedly making concessions and throwing its own under the bus to remain whiter than white, it at least needs to be recognised that there is at least some balancing impact as that doesn’t project power. 

[PapofGlencoe]

3 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

I don’t disagree with you, but the interesting conundrum that this brings is that the more successful a party becomes, the more they grow in numbers/seats and more scrutiny and more media exposure comes with it. Human nature being what it is, folk will always do stupid things and politicians are no exception - even if we, the public, want to hold them to greater accountability. 
 

That all tells us that even ‘good’ political parties will end up on the back foot time and again. The question is then a matter of how they handle it and how it damages their short/mid/long term ambitions. 
 

Rightly or wrongly, I look at the way the Tories almost always close ranks and deflect everything - and does it genuinely damage them to any great extent when most stuff blows over?? If a party is repeatedly making concessions and throwing its own under the bus to remain whiter than white, it at least needs to be recognised that there is at least some balancing impact as that doesn’t project power. 

I know what you're saying but I dont think this case merited it.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I can't agree Ferrier should have been spared to be honest.  

Covering up for their own is the type of thing Scottish Labour would have done back in the day.  Point of SNP and MPs, in general, is we expect a higher level of conduct.

How would it have looked if Ferrier had been allowed to remain?  Not good.

 

Interesting article from Campbell Martin.  It's hard to disagree with the idea the state would infiltrate the SNP given the factual events of the past.  If that's a given, it does make you wonder.  But I really struggle to understand why Swinney would be mentioned.  People seem to be forgetting the power of work Swinney, Sturgeon, Robertson, Salmond did during 2012-2014 - i.e. when it mattered most.  They went up against the entire British state and gave them a bloody nose.

It's also as possible they're simply listening to phones and emails as per pegaus in Catalonia and Spanish secret police.  Highly doubt Britain is above that kind of thing.

The ones sniping obsessively at the SNP and attempting to turn the movement in on itself are as likely candidates as any too.

Interesting you should say that .............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66465466

Nicola Sturgeon rules out reconciliation with Alex Salmond

[aaid]

2 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I can't agree Ferrier should have been spared to be honest.  

Covering up for their own is the type of thing Scottish Labour would have done back in the day.  Point of SNP and MPs, in general, is we expect a higher level of conduct.

How would it have looked if Ferrier had been allowed to remain?  Not good.

 

Interesting article from Campbell Martin.  It's hard to disagree with the idea the state would infiltrate the SNP given the factual events of the past.  If that's a given, it does make you wonder.  But I really struggle to understand why Swinney would be mentioned.  People seem to be forgetting the power of work Swinney, Sturgeon, Robertson, Salmond did during 2012-2014 - i.e. when it mattered most.  They went up against the entire British state and gave them a bloody nose.

It's also as possible they're simply listening to phones and emails as per pegaus in Catalonia and Spanish secret police.  Highly doubt Britain is above that kind of thing.

The ones sniping obsessively at the SNP and attempting to turn the movement in on itself are as likely candidates as any too.

Why would Swinney be picked out.  Maybe the author holds a grudge as he was thrown out the SNP in 2004 for repeatedly criticising John Swinney while he was leader.  

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Interesting you should say that .............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66465466

Nicola Sturgeon rules out reconciliation with Alex Salmond

That’s nothing new.  She was asked when she was FM could she ever see a situation arise where she’d speak to him again. The answer, a curt No.

I wonder if her book will cover “what Alex Salmond to me in my kitchen” which seems to be a game changer in how she viewed him. 

[Ally Bongo]

14 minutes ago, aaid said:

That’s nothing new.  She was asked when she was FM could she ever see a situation arise where she’d speak to him again. The answer, a curt No.

I wonder if her book will cover “what Alex Salmond to me in my kitchen” which seems to be a game changer in how she viewed him. 

Maybe just once Independence could be bigger than any one person or party ?

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Maybe just once Independence could be bigger than any one person or party ?

Why would she have to have anything to do with him?

[Ally Bongo]

42 minutes ago, aaid said:

Why would she have to have anything to do with him?

Because ...wait for it ... Independence is bigger than any one person or party

It is obvious to anyone taking notice that the current SNP do not believe that and haven't for some time