Indyref 2 (2)

[Hertsscot]

21 hours ago, Malcolm said:

i have met Kate Forbes on more than one occasion and she is clearly bright and would be far more competent than Humza.  I would be tempted to vote for her if she ditched the greens.

Aside from the additional taxes, the fiscal drag on existing rates and personal allowance are a shocker.  £43k for higher rate tax?  Inflation over the last few years would make that about £35k in real terms old money. State pensioners will soon be taxed.  

I'm no economist but I doubt you can promote growth simply through tax, tax, tax. However over the last 40 odd years there has been a massive growing gulf between the haves and have nots, we are one of the most unequal societies in Europe. Would you not agree that for a cohesive and content society that this ever increasing economic disparity needs to be addressed? 'Progressive' taxation is one obvious way this can be done. The rich had far higher taxation under Thatcher, I'm not suggesting that we go back to those rates but I don't see anything wrong with upping them and those who have benefitted paying a bit more.

[hampden_loon2878]

good poling for independence today

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

good poling for independence today

Worth taking note of IMO

[hampden_loon2878]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Worth taking note of IMO

yet shes resigned and polling is doing better, i dare say that the numbers will have been around the same prior to eck resigning.. 

[hampden_loon2878]

we need more MSP'S like jim fairlie, i really have a lot of time for him

[phart]

On the pension thing it really depends on what the percentage increase is going forward and how the personal allowance.

Worse case scenario, i.e. personal allowance doesn't increase and we take the highest possible percentage increase.

Assuming tax rates are the same. Rough estimates.

They pay £3 a week in tax in 2026.

If we take the mean of increases then we're into the 2030's before we reach that threshold.

If the personal allowance threshold changes then that pushes everything further into the future.

 

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

yet shes resigned and polling is doing better, i dare say that the numbers will have been around the same prior to eck resigning.. 

It gives weight to the British Establishment doing their best to oust her - Operation Branchfarce

Time will tell

[Caledonian Craig]

As I said a week or two ago now I don't think who leads the SNP bears any bearing on the polling of independence. The most favourable leaders in the last two decades have been Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and independence did not poll any higher than it is just now despite having much under-fire Humza Youssuf leading the SNP.

[hampden_loon2878]

13 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

It gives weight to the British Establishment doing their best to oust her - Operation Branchfarce

Time will tell

i think the opposite, sturgeon will be protected 

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i think the opposite, sturgeon will be protected 

Protected? FFS give it up. You said she was a plant yet they are fitting her up. You do not do that to a plant.

[Ally Bongo]

27 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i think the opposite, sturgeon will be protected 

If that was true there wouldnt be an operation branchform lasting 2 years

You cannot have it both ways

[PapofGlencoe]

35 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

As I said a week or two ago now I don't think who leads the SNP bears any bearing on the polling of independence. The most favourable leaders in the last two decades have been Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and independence did not poll any higher than it is just now despite having much under-fire Humza Youssuf leading the SNP.

or independence simply wasn't supported by a majority of Scottish people.  I tend to think the vote was increased and maximised in 2014.  There's no god given right Scottish people actually want independence or that there is a silent majority in favour of it, if only the right leader was in charge.  It could be only about a third wanted it, they convinced more of the wavering third than No but ultimately squeezed every drop and it still wasn't enough. 

The wavering third is now a wavering 5% which is both good and bad.  Good as the Yes side is younger and bad as people's views have entrenched and less likely to shift.

I can't see independence happening without a charismatic leader(s) as something needs to happen to shift the dial from 51/49, and the SNP winning again to even begin talking about it as a realistic prospect.

[Malcolm]

6 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

or independence simply wasn't supported by a majority of Scottish people.  I tend to think the vote was increased and maximised in 2014.  There's no god given right Scottish people actually want independence or that there is a silent majority in favour of it, if only the right leader was in charge.  It could be only about a third wanted it, they convinced more of the wavering third than No but ultimately squeezed every drop and it still wasn't enough. 

The wavering third is now a wavering 5% which is both good and bad.  Good as the Yes side is younger and bad as people's views have entrenched and less likely to shift.

I can't see independence happening without a charismatic leader(s) as something needs to happen to shift the dial from 51/49, and the SNP winning again to even begin talking about it as a realistic prospect.

 

there is always a core support either way and then those like me that are undecided and can be influenced by the competency and charisma of the leader and party leadership in general.  
 

youngsters are generally more radical and up for change but then become more conservative as they get older.  For independence to happen you need the stars to align.  You need a strong core support and then also capture the don’t know, typically moderate voters.  Salmond was close, Humza will never achieve that.  the SNP will never achieve it with the far left agenda they currently have.

 

 

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

The one thing that keeps me very hopeful for Scottish independence sometime in my lifetime is the changes in support in my lifetime. Back in the 70s support was way below 20% and it was generally accepted that Scotland was devoted to the union. That changed in the 80s with Thatcher's Tory government and support for independence began to rise up into the mid 20s and near the 30%. More Tory rule and devolution saw independence support continue to rise and with it the SNP began to make a mark and support for independence continued to rise. We now see support for independence probably around 40 to 45% and there has been no fall in its support. I am certain the days of a big majority of Scots subservient to the union has gone forever and the more right-wing the Tories become and Labour follow then support for independence will only continue to grow. The dam will burst some time.

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Protected? FFS give it up. You said she was a plant yet they are fitting her up. You do not do that to a plant.

they are not fitting her up,, lots more things that i know are true, have still to come out,, she is rotten to the core, and that is why i think she is being protected, if i know then hundreds of folk, including journalists must know..  

[PapofGlencoe]

10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The one thing that keeps me very hopeful for Scottish independence sometime in my lifetime is the changes in support in my lifetime. Back in the 70s support was way below 20% and it was generally accepted that Scotland was devoted to the union. That changed in the 80s with Thatcher's Tory government and support for independence began to rise up into the mid 20s and near the 30%. More Tory rule and devolution saw independence support continue to rise and with it the SNP began to make a mark and support for independence continued to rise. We now see support for independence probably around 40 to 45% and there has been no fall in its support. I am certain the days of a big majority of Scots subservient to the union has gone forever and the more right-wing the Tories become and Labour follow then support for independence will only continue to grow. The dam will burst some time.

it's obviously gone up in support over the decades, that's clear.  Clearly favoured by people in huge numbers the younger they get in a way not seen before.  I think some people will change their minds as they get older but the differences are stark and it's not just 20 year olds.  It's the educated 35-50 year olds who were 25-40 ten years ago who hold the key.  They've largely remained pro Yes and we've seen a corresponding increase in polls from 45 to 48/52/53.  Rarely do you see anything like 39% now as we did in 2013/14.  The Sunday times 51% in favour was one of a few (the only?) to actually show a yes lead.  

All means for nought if the SNP can't convince people they are the vehicle or have the gravitas to shift the dial.  Sturgeon had it, Salmond had it but there's noone coming through.  I just don't see it with Forbes.

[PapofGlencoe]

4 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

they are not fitting her up,, lots more things that i know are true, have still to come out,, she is rotten to the core, and that is why i think she is being protected, if i know then hundreds of folk, including journalists must know..  

do you ever consider, even for a moment, you might have been taken in? 

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

it's obviously gone up in support over the decades, that's clear.  Clearly favoured by people in huge numbers the younger they get in a way not seen before.  I think some people will change their minds as they get older but the differences are stark and it's not just 20 year olds.  It's the educated 35-50 year olds who were 25-40 ten years ago who hold the key.  They've largely remained pro Yes and we've seen a corresponding increase in polls from 45 to 48/52/53.  Rarely do you see anything like 39% now as we did in 2013/14.  The Sunday times 51% in favour was one of a few (the only?) to actually show a yes lead.  

All means for nought if the SNP can't convince people they are the vehicle or have the gravitas to shift the dial.  Sturgeon had it, Salmond had it but there's noone coming through.  I just don't see it with Forbes.

It is not just the SNP voters who back independence - I think that much is clear. There are a modicum of Scottish Labour voters loyal to that party who support independence, even a few Scottish Tory and Lib Dem voters too. I say that as the polls have remained pretty constant even when SNP have dipped in opinion polls of late and not faired as well as expected in elections.

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

do you ever consider, even for a moment, you might have been taken in? 

yes i did to start with however the more i have learned it makes it impossible to ignore or put aside as a coincidence,, have you thought for a second that possibly that you may be looking at it from the wrong angle?

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is not just the SNP voters who back independence - I think that much is clear. There are a modicum of Scottish Labour voters loyal to that party who support independence, even a few Scottish Tory and Lib Dem voters too. I say that as the polls have remained pretty constant even when SNP have dipped in opinion polls of late and not faired as well as expected in elections.

for example me… I will likely vote Tory yet still be pro independence.

 

kate Forbes will have a massive job on her hands to reverse the Humza years.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

they are not fitting her up,, lots more things that i know are true, have still to come out,, she is rotten to the core, and that is why i think she is being protected, if i know then hundreds of folk, including journalists must know..  

That doesn't say a lot about your hero then that he walked out on leadership of the SNP and endorsed someone 'rotten to the core' as his successor.

[PapofGlencoe]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

yes i did to start with however the more i have learned it makes it impossible to ignore or put aside as a coincidence,, have you thought for a second that possibly that you may be looking at it from the wrong angle?

frequently i do yes.  What have you learned specifically and that everyone knows even journalists?  May as well tell us all if it's that widely known.

I don't doubt for a second there are fifth columnists in the SNP ranks, naive to think otherwise, but Sturgeon literally pulled the trigger on a defacto vote last year.  Nobody got on board though and the minute she did the Isla Bryson story went into overdrive...

[StirlingEgg]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

for example me… I will likely vote Tory yet still be pro independence.

 

kate Forbes will have a massive job on her hands to reverse the Humza years.

Why do you only ever say things that are provocative rather than your genuine opinion? I genuinely don't see what purpose it serves. You said before that you're looking for competency and charisma but then negate that by saying you'll be voting Tory. Same for comments like Scottish players not being good enough for the English league...

[vanderark14]

53 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

Why do you only ever say things that are provocative rather than your genuine opinion? I genuinely don't see what purpose it serves. You said before that you're looking for competency and charisma but then negate that by saying you'll be voting Tory. Same for comments like Scottish players not being good enough for the English league...

He is looking for a reaction, like most staunch posters. Thankfully the most staunch posters have long since left here

Not a single serious independence supporter would ever vote for the tories. They are the most anti independence party out there

[mariokempes]

7 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Protected? FFS give it up. You said she was a plant yet they are fitting her up. You do not do that to a plant.

100% she is being protected,  from jail time at least. 

 Sure she's getting flak but that's just a way to get at the snp.  She , personally will be protected.  She just suffers a lot of flying shit for a while, but she'll be well rewarded.