Can we break the hoodoo?

[Texas Pete]

55 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Blame Nicola she opened the pubs

Any way the fact that I think failure to get out of the group is poor suggests I expect to do at least that. 

Yes I get that but you are basing that on absolutely nothing except we qualified for the finals in 1996 as far as I can see. 

Expecting to get out of a group which contains 3 other teams that are better than Scotland seems a little odd to me. Especially when we need to finish above 2 of the teams to guarantee progression.

We are not in the top 16 European teams so I’m not sure why you feel we should get to the last 16.

I definitely think we can get out of the group but there’s no way I expect it to happen. We will need to play at our best and probably get a good bit of luck in the three games if we are to qualify. 

[Taylor1996]

20 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Yet you yourself have compared Turnbull to McAllister; Gilmour will be the equal of McCall at least I would say. Think we have good options in mf.

I did say a young McAllister. 

Gilmour could very well eclipse all of them.

[Texas Pete]

32 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Ah think we will win the whole fuckin thing !!!! Yasssssssssssssssss🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

That’s the spirit. 

Might be time to stop drinking again though? 😂

[Taylor1996]

6 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Yes I get that but you are basing that on absolutely nothing except we qualified for the finals in 1996 as far as I can see. 

Expecting to get out of a group which contains 3 other teams that are better than Scotland seems a little odd to me. Especially when we need to finish above 2 of the teams to guarantee progression.

We are not in the top 16 European teams so I’m not sure why you feel we should get to the last 16.

I definitely think we can get out of the group but there’s no way I expect it to happen. We will need to play at our best and probably get a good bit of luck in the three games if we are to qualify. 

Do you ever take a day off?

In the past few days you've called a guy fat, you've lambasted an England supporter for talking about England's players (even though someone else brought up the topic of England players), you've accused me of saying that I didn't want us to qualify via the Playoffs (wrongly) and now you've accusing ceudmilefailt of being on the booze.

Do I agree with ceudmilefailt on this? No. But I admire his optimism.

The hospital called, they're ready to give you a sense of humour transplant.

[Texas Pete]

59 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I can look at it two ways.

We are in a much tougher group than we have had barring Mexico '86 at a major tournament so to expect us to rock up and qualify is stretching it. Yes you could technically say we are at home but COVID has totally negated that.

I can see us getting results though that could see us through. We tend to raise our levels when playing the better teams so the group we are in could work in our failure.

Yes, just now, we may have a weaker squad than Euro 96 but a month from now it could be better if we get to the second phase. That Euro 96 squad was ageing and a number were nearing the end of their international careers. Our current squad has a number of young talents in our squad who could have a decade in front of them.

I’m not sure our group is much tougher than Euro 96. The Czechs are possibly better than Switzerland were in 96 but apart from that I would say both groups are similar in standard. 

It will obviously be easier to get of this group though as third place might be enough. 

[Texas Pete]

6 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Do you ever take a day off?

In the past few days you've called a guy fat, you've lambasted an England supporter for talking about England's players (even though someone else brought up the topic of England players), you've accused me of saying that I didn't want us to qualify via the Playoffs (wrongly) and now you've accusing ceudmilefailt of being on the booze.

Do I agree with ceudmilefailt on this? No. But I admire his optimism.

The hospital called, they're ready to give you a sense of humour transplant.

I called nobody fat you horrible little man. 

Isn’t it time you were banned again? 

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

Football has completely evolved in the last 20-25 years. It is very hard to compare footballers from different generations. 

Football is much more tactically, technically and physically nuanced than it was 25 years ago.

Much less entertaining now though in my opinion. 

[Caledonian Craig]

18 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I’m not sure our group is much tougher than Euro 96. The Czechs are possibly better than Switzerland were in 96 but apart from that I would say both groups are similar in standard. 

It will obviously be easier to get of this group though as third place might be enough. 

Yes it is all subjective.

It is all a case of wait and see. If we give a good account of ourselves in all three games but narrowly miss out on the second round it will be disappointing but hey ho getting to our first major finals of this century is a step forward.

If we take a caning in all three games and lose them all then it is back to the drawing board and we will have to pick ourselves up for crucial World Cup qualifiers early next season.

If we manage to make it through to the Second Round it will be the biggest achievement by any Scotland team in history and will instill some extra confidence and boost interest in the national team even more at all levels.

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes it is all subjective.

It is all a case of wait and see. If we give a good account of ourselves in all three games but narrowly miss out on the second round it will be disappointing but hey ho getting to our first major finals of this century is a step forward.

If we take a caning in all three games and lose them all then it is back to the drawing board and we will have to pick ourselves up for crucial World Cup qualifiers early next season.

If we manage to make it through to the Second Round it will be the biggest achievement by any Scotland team in history and will instill some extra confidence and boost interest in the national team even more at all levels.

The main thing for me is we are actually there. You can’t get into the second round if you don’t qualify in the first place. 

Our first game is huge in terms of getting out the group. Defeat will give us next to no chance, a draw and we’ll have a small chance but we’ll probably need to beat either England or Croatia and a win will give us a brilliant chance. 

I can’t wait for the 14th of June now. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

41 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

That’s the spirit. 

Might be time to stop drinking again though? 😂

🤣🤣🍺🍺🍺👍👍👍👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Taylor1996]

The Euro 96 group was stronger than this one:

The England team was better in 96 (and Venables was a better manager than Southgate.)

The Dutch squad had the likes the De Boers, Seedorf, Blind, Stam, Davids, Bergkamp, Kluivert, etc.

The Croatia may have Modric and Perisic and Rebic but that's it. They are a good team.

Switzerland are pretty much the same as the Czechs... but Vogel and Chapuisat gives the Swiss the edge.

As for Scotland, 9 of the starting XI at Euro 96 would get into our current team.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Taylor1996

[Caledonian Craig]

27 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

 

As for Scotland, 9 of the starting XI at Euro 96 would get into our current team.

Only nine of that squad would get into our squad. For me it had higher top end quality but there is more strength in depth in the current squad.

[Taylor1996]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Only nine of that squad would get into our squad. For me it had higher top end quality but there is more strength in depth in the current squad.

Having just looked at the squad from 96. I'd say about 15 from the 96 squad would get into this squad:

Leighton; Goram; Hendry; Boyd; Calderwood; McKimmie; Collins; McAllister; McCall; Burley; McCoist; Durie; Gallagher; Jackson and Spencer. 

Factor in Goram and Leighton, the lack of a RWB and the lack of depth up front. Plus the midfield trio at Euro 96. 

The squad back then was 22. 

 

[Taylor1996]

1 hour ago, Taylor1996 said:

Do I agree with ceudmilefailt on this? No. But I admire his optimism.

To clarify, I disagree with him about the squad strength, but I do agree that we can make it as far as we want to.

As far as our group goes, we can win it. If Maguire is out for England, we should target their defence with Dykes, we can beat England, too.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes it is all subjective.

It is all a case of wait and see. If we give a good account of ourselves in all three games but narrowly miss out on the second round it will be disappointing but hey ho getting to our first major finals of this century is a step forward.

If we take a caning in all three games and lose them all then it is back to the drawing board and we will have to pick ourselves up for crucial World Cup qualifiers early next season.

If we manage to make it through to the Second Round it will be the biggest achievement by any Scotland team in history and will instill some extra confidence and boost interest in the national team even more at all levels.

You think possibly finishing in 3rd to qualify would be more of an achievement than being unbeaten in 74 or beating the losing finalists in 78.

And they were world cups not some 24 team Euro's were 16  "qualify" for the latter stages.

Topping the group or reaching the last 8 would probably count as our greatest achievement.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

You think possibly finishing in 3rd to qualify would be more of an achievement than being unbeaten in 74 or beating the losing finalists in 78.

And they were world cups not some 24 team Euro's were 16  "qualify" for the latter stages.

Topping the group or reaching the last 8 would probably count as our greatest achievement.

Yes I do.

It means we get out of the First Round ever and are not the first team flying home. To me its immaterial how many teams were competing in the tournament because if you wish to turn it around there are also more teams in qualifying and far fewer pushover fixtures today. Look at 74 and we exited for failing to leather Zaire which was a failing. In 78 we beat Netherlands but embarrassed ourselves against Iran and got spanked by Peru. And lets just bear in mind we went there with Scotland legends in our squads too.

In any sport you want to see signs of progress for your team or favourite player etc and us getting into the Second Round would be progress.

[Texas Pete]

13 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I do.

It means we get out of the First Round ever and are not the first team flying home. To me its immaterial how many teams were competing in the tournament because if you wish to turn it around there are also more teams in qualifying and far fewer pushover fixtures today. Look at 74 and we exited for failing to leather Zaire which was a failing. In 78 we beat Netherlands but embarrassed ourselves against Iran and got spanked by Peru. And lets just bear in mind we went there with Scotland legends in our squads too.

In any sport you want to see signs of progress for your team or favourite player etc and us getting into the Second Round would be progress.

Yeah and I think we should take the standard of opposition and our own current standing in world football into consideration. 

If we were top seeds and had an easy group and scraped through to the second round in third place then it wouldn’t be much of an achievement. Finishing second or third in a group where we are bottom seeds and getting in to the second round would be a great achievement. 

Would it be our greatest achievement? Probably since we haven’t really ever achieved anything much at all at a tournament before. 

[Morrisandmoo]

We should be confident about getting past this group. It the best chance we might ever have,with two games at home and another vs England. 

I think we will do it, despite being the underdogs. 

[Toepoke]

33 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

We should be confident about getting past this group. It the best chance we might ever have,with two games at home and another vs England. 

I think we will do it, despite being the underdogs. 

Agree with this, very favourable conditions for us. We always seem to find a way to arse it up though

 

[hamilton wanderer]

A decent chance to get out of the group in my opinion. Italia ‘90 was the same format and I remember that we nearly didn’t get on the plane to come home as we had a decent chance to qualify (potentially by a drawing of lots) with only 3 points. Lost out on goal difference again but nearly made it.

the thing is you need a win and it’s fortunate for us that the most winnable game is up first.

[Texas Pete]

2 minutes ago, hamilton wanderer said:

A decent chance to get out of the group in my opinion. Italia ‘90 was the same format and I remember that we nearly didn’t get on the plane to come home as we had a decent chance to qualify (potentially by a drawing of lots) with only 3 points. Lost out on goal difference again but nearly made it.

the thing is you need a win and it’s fortunate for us that the most winnable game is up first.

You don’t actually need a win to get out the group. Portugal got into the second round in 2016 with three draws. 

A win against the Czechs would be huge though and would set us up nicely for Wembley. 

[ProudScot]

Surprise package & we will get to the 1/4 final...

[Texas Pete]

24 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Surprise package & we will get to the 1/4 final...

That would do nicely. 

Only 11/2 with the bookies as well which seems a bit stingy to me. 

[roverboy]

3 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

To clarify, I disagree with him about the squad strength, but I do agree that we can make it as far as we want to.

As far as our group goes, we can win it. If Maguire is out for England, we should target their defence with Dykes, we can beat England, too.

Please do win it. All of England is behind you. Then we can avoid France Germany Portugal 

[Taylor1996]

21 minutes ago, roverboy said:

Please do win it. All of England is behind you. Then we can avoid France Germany Portugal 

Why stop there?

We'll win the entire thing.