Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 8:48 PM, Chripper said: That's all fine and good but none of them are particularly good. I'm being kind with that... the unkind version is that all seven of them are hopeless. A couple of them are actually key players for their club sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Chripper said: Honestly, I think "hopeless" is still too kind. All of them are Championship/lower half of the EPL standard players. International level is a couple of notches above, which is why our players struggle even against the poorest of teams. Irish national teams pick from the same pool last time I looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Tartan Chris said: A couple of them are actually key players for their club sides. Yes, but at Championship level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Tartan Chris said: Irish national teams pick from the same pool last time I looked. Is that really the gold standard? Yikes. If we're really using the Irish team as a barometer of success then we truly are doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Chripper said: Yes, but at Championship level. Andy Robertson was a key player for Hull in their championship season in 2015-16. Not saying they're all going to be brilliant in the premier league (Rhodes is hardly getting a game for Norwich now so he's one that won't be in the prem next season) but I reckon a couple of them will step up nicely if given a proper chance. Bigger issue here is the negative mentality and mindset around the Scottish game currently which means the NT often play like 11 strangers and lack of commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Chripper said: Is that really the gold standard? Yikes. If we're really using the Irish team as a barometer of success then we truly are doomed. They are much more competitive at least. Make euros from time to time and also world cup play offs so they are at least in the mix for international tournaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chripper said: So, you're citing one match over a period of 18 years? How about when we almost beat England? We've been playing with 4 at the back continuously for 18 years. We've played with 3 at the back for what, five matches in that period? I don't think it's fair to bring up one match, as I could mention 18 years worth of embarrassment. If we had played with a 3/5 at the back for two or three year and we were still hopeless at it, then fine, but we haven't given it a consistent chance. When we almost beat England we were organised and knew what we were doing. I'm hoping the next boss will do the same for us, no matter the formation. You might be pleasantly surprised if it's 4 at the back. With your preference you want to take (arguably) the 2 best left-backs in the UK and play neither of them in their natural position! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chripper said: Is that really the gold standard? Yikes. If we're really using the Irish team as a barometer of success then we truly are doomed. Alright let's try Iceland then who have just had a golden last five years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_national_football_team Cardiff, Burnley, Villa, Darmstadt, Augsburg, Rostov, Brondby provide their regular players.... Difference is their players are full of confidence and believe they'll get results even if they go a goal down as they did to Argentina in the last world cup. As soon as Scotland concede a goal heads drop and the world is expected to end as it pretty much in Astana. Of course more ability is needed but the mentality of the squad is at an all time low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, daviebee said: When we almost beat England we were organised and knew what we were doing. I'm hoping the next boss will do the same for us, no matter the formation. You might be pleasantly surprised if it's 4 at the back. With your preference you want to take (arguably) the 2 best left-backs in the UK and play neither of them in their natural position! Do you see what I mean, though? We've been playing with a four for 18 years. No success. We play with 3 at the back for a few matches, the results don't go our way, so we go back to the tried and failed system. Oh, there's no doubting that the next manager will play 4 at the back. I would play Robertson as an anchorman, as he'd be more involved in that position and I'd play Tierney as a left wingback. Too many people are stuck on the "natural position" thing. I suggest people read the article about David Alaba I posted. He's been left back, anchorman and apparently his best position is as a number 10. Top players are versatile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Alright let's try Iceland then who have just had a golden last five years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_national_football_team Cardiff, Burnley, Villa, Darmstadt, Augsburg, Rostov, Brondby provide their regular players.... Difference is their players are full of confidence and believe they'll get results even if they go a goal down as they did to Argentina in the last world cup. As soon as Scotland concede a goal heads drop and the world is expected to end as it pretty much in Astana. Of course more ability is needed but the mentality of the squad is at an all time low. It's not just about confidence. Have you any idea how many indoor facilities and general pitches they have in Iceland? They're a country of about 300k people and yet they have more proper facilities than we do, both for summer and winter training. If people wonder why we're useless at football, that's one reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Chripper said: It's not just about confidence. Have you any idea how many indoor facilities and general pitches they have in Iceland? They're a country of about 300k people and yet they have more proper facilities than we do, both for summer and winter training. If people wonder why we're useless at football, that's one reason. Fair point although that still dosen't make their core squad of 20 play for better clubs in europe.... More they've had an excellent NT manager for last five years (Lars Lagerback) who could organise them properly and so confidence grew from that. They also had a really good under 21 team in 2009 that qualified for that euros (Glyfi Sigurdsson was part of that) so group of players who've come through the system together and know each others games inside out. Wales in last 10 years have been similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Andy Robertson was a key player for Hull in their championship season in 2015-16. Not saying they're all going to be brilliant in the premier league (Rhodes is hardly getting a game for Norwich now so he's one that won't be in the prem next season) but I reckon a couple of them will step up nicely if given a proper chance. Bigger issue here is the negative mentality and mindset around the Scottish game currently which means the NT often play like 11 strangers and lack of commitment. Andy Robertson is an anomaly. He made it because of his character and because of a steely resolve. The general Scottish player thinks they've made it simply by being a professional player. What makes top players what they are is the continual will to improve. Look at Tony Watt for example, he scored against Barcelona and he his progression stopped as he believed the hype. On the continent they don't just produce top footballers, they also produce top human beings. Just look at Clairefontaine, they don't just teach kids how to play football, they also teach the mind as the schooling goes hand-in-hand with coaching. Meanwhile in Scotland, we're producing human beings like Garry O'Connor and Jason Cummings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Fair point although that still dosen't make their core squad of 20 play for better clubs in europe.... More they've had an excellent NT manager for last five years (Lars Lagerback) who could organise them properly and so confidence grew from that. They also had a really good under 21 team in 2009 that qualified for that euros (Glyfi Sigurdsson was part of that) so group of players who've come through the system together and know each others games inside out. Wales in last 10 years have been similar. I know. In fairness, though, their country is too small to really produce players that are going to play for Real Madrid or Barca, etc. Agreed. I know. Their achievements haven't been an overnight thing. They've been doing the proper things for more than a decade now. They're a country of 300k and they'd probably beat us 4 or 5 nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Odds on Moyes just shortened massively... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chripper said: I know. In fairness, though, their country is too small to really produce players that are going to play for Real Madrid or Barca, etc. Agreed. I know. Their achievements haven't been an overnight thing. They've been doing the proper things for more than a decade now. They're a country of 300k and they'd probably beat us 4 or 5 nil. Would be more of a 1 nil job I think. Bigger worry is Finland are having a similar sort of uplift and had some brilliant results in the nations league. Beat Armenia away 2-0 in euros qualifying who are similar level to Kazhakstan. Would be a tough play off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Tartan Chris said: Would be more of a 1 nil job I think. Bigger worry is Finland are having a similar sort of uplift and had some brilliant results in the nations league. Beat Armenia away 2-0 in euros qualifying who are similar level to Kazhakstan. Would be a tough play off. Kazakhstan beat us 3:0, so I'm guessing it would be larger than 3 nil. I quite like seeing smaller nations getting their act together and pulling in the same direction. It shows that there are FA's out there who really care about their national team. Honestly, our stock is so low that I could only see us beating Faroe Islands and San Marino... anyone else and I'd be worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Believe it or not but Scotland do still win some games at Hampden, two in that nations league thingy, drew 2-2 with England and lost by the odd goal to world champions Germany and Spain in last decade. Always rubbish in the friendlies so scrubbed off the Portugal and Belgium trashings. It's away from home when it al falls apart particularly going a goal down. Just prey for the play off to be home before the final one to be at a neutral venue if I've got that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: Believe it or not but Scotland do still win some games at Hampden, two in that nations league thingy, drew 2-2 with England and lost by the odd goal to world champions Germany and Spain in last decade. Always rubbish in the friendlies so scrubbed off the Portugal and Belgium trashings. It's away from home when it al falls apart particularly going a goal down. Just prey for the play off to be home before the final one to be at a neutral venue if I've got that right. Play off? Are you insane. We won’t even finish top 3 in this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 54 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Play off? Are you insane. We won’t even finish top 3 in this group. We are already in a play off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Chripper said: I know. In fairness, though, their country is too small to really produce players that are going to play for Real Madrid or Barca, etc. Agreed. I know. Their achievements haven't been an overnight thing. They've been doing the proper things for more than a decade now. They're a country of 300k and they'd probably beat us 4 or 5 nil. Hate to be an anorak but they've actually had a player at Barcelona a lot more recently than we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 minute ago, daviebee said: Hate to be an anorak but they've actually had a player at Barcelona a lot more recently than we have. Ah. I forgot about that Eidur Gudjohnsen was with Barcelona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 4 hours ago, vanderark14 said: We are already in a play off Play off from the group I mean, obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Play off from the group I mean, obviously I meant the play off where Scotland are going to be facing one of Norway, Bulgaria, Finland and Serbia and anyone else I've forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 56 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: I meant the play off where Scotland are going to be facing one of Norway, Bulgaria, Finland and Serbia and anyone else I've forgotten. We would lose to all those teams now, even Finland. Probably get smashed by Serbia about 5-0 over two legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 7 hours ago, ProudScot said: Play off from the group I mean, obviously Top two qualify from the group, no one qualifies for a play off via the group stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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