Strachan remains

[radian_13]

Are players aren't mentally tough enough and the same ones that fail get picked again, would love to be wrong but Strachan won't take us to a tournament.  Even getting lucky with the Euro 2020 qualifying draw I'd honestly still expect us to f*** it up.  

[Caledonian Craig]

37 minutes ago, radian_13 said:

Are players aren't mentally tough enough and the same ones that fail get picked again, would love to be wrong but Strachan won't take us to a tournament.  Even getting lucky with the Euro 2020 qualifying draw I'd honestly still expect us to f*** it up.  

Strachan is a small part of the reason we are failing at present.

The bigger picture says our players are not good enough at international level. The signs are there and you know that by reading posts here alone. Posts such as Griffiths and Rhodes being depicted as the answer to our problems yet both can't even hold down a first team spot at their clubs. We then put far too much faith in youth players thinking they are our next world class players and they sink without trace. We then get players who play one impressive match for their club being recommended for the Scotland squad. It all smacks of desperation. Until we can start producing a hard core string of 20+ players playing regular first team football at a high level we are going nowhere regardless of the manager.

[ceudmilefailte]

Any competent manager should be able to get some sort of performance out of a group of players that are worth tens of millions of pounds on thousands of pounds in wages. Our players might not be the best in the world but Strachan has to get the best out of them. This is were he has failed.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Any competent manager should be able to get some sort of performance out of a group of players that are worth tens of millions of pounds on thousands of pounds in wages. Our players might not be the best in the world but Strachan has to get the best out of them. This is were he has failed.

Don't let transfer fees cloudy the issue. They have been at a ridiculous level for years now - over-inflated. At the end of the day I judge them on achievements and not one of the squad is playing at the highest level (not counting SPL) and gewtting regular first team football. That sums up the real standard of the players available to us. Strachan should have been punted months ago but I hold out no hope for whatever new manager comes in to turn us into qualifiers. You simply cannot polish a turd.

[Rude Gullit]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Strachan is a small part of the reason we are failing at present.

The bigger picture says our players are not good enough at international level. The signs are there and you know that by reading posts here alone. Posts such as Griffiths and Rhodes being depicted as the answer to our problems yet both can't even hold down a first team spot at their clubs. We then put far too much faith in youth players thinking they are our next world class players and they sink without trace. We then get players who play one impressive match for their club being recommended for the Scotland squad. It all smacks of desperation. Until we can start producing a hard core string of 20+ players playing regular first team football at a high level we are going nowhere regardless of the manager.

I don't think we need anything like 20+ players playing regularly at a high level. Wales are a good example of a squad with, what, 1 world class llayer, 1-2 players at the top end of the EPL, another 5 or 6 at mid-lower EPL level and the rest are second tier/second rate, and they are doing brilliantly with that mix.

I'd say Belgium are in the 20+ high level regulars category. Be great to be at that level but maybe a more realistic aspiration would be Wales.

[Bino's]

8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Don't let transfer fees cloudy the issue. They have been at a ridiculous level for years now - over-inflated. At the end of the day I judge them on achievements and not one of the squad is playing at the highest level (not counting SPL) and gewtting regular first team football. That sums up the real standard of the players available to us. Strachan should have been punted months ago but I hold out no hope for whatever new manager comes in to turn us into qualifiers. You simply cannot polish a turd.

Michael O'Neil polished his turds until they were gleaming

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Bino's said:

Michael O'Neil polished his turds until they were gleaming

Totally different background there and I'd say they have more players playing regular first team football than us as well. Northern Ireland have been at a decent level now for 7 or 8 years now and building on that plus have had manager stability. We have stumbled from manager to manager with disquiet amongst supporters and various team unrest at times. We have had a long run of managers now from varying backgrounds who have all failed to get us to a major tournament with a smattering of jaw-dropping flops. That knocks self-belief and confidence and makes turds even less polishable.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 hours ago, Rude Gullit said:

I don't think we need anything like 20+ players playing regularly at a high level. Wales are a good example of a squad with, what, 1 world class llayer, 1-2 players at the top end of the EPL, another 5 or 6 at mid-lower EPL level and the rest are second tier/second rate, and they are doing brilliantly with that mix.

I'd say Belgium are in the 20+ high level regulars category. Be great to be at that level but maybe a more realistic aspiration would be Wales.

Wales actually have about 50% of their squad alone playing in the EPL and most are regulars(unlike ours) and then there is Gareth Bale who is light years ahead of anything we have. Sure they have players from the second tier as well but again I'd guess they are first team regulars whilst some of ours are not ie Naysmith, Fletcher etc. Again like Northern Ireland they had slowly been on the rise in international football for a fair few years prior to finally qualifying so confidence has been good be that under speed or Coleman. We, on the other hand, have been stumbling from one calamity to another for a decade now and been on a downer. Confidence and self-belief are on a much lower level than Wales and Northern Ireland.

[Rude Gullit]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Wales actually have about 50% of their squad alone playing in the EPL and most are regulars(unlike ours) and then there is Gareth Bale who is light years ahead of anything we have. Sure they have players from the second tier as well but again I'd guess they are first team regulars whilst some of ours are not ie Naysmith, Fletcher etc. Again like Northern Ireland they had slowly been on the rise in international football for a fair few years prior to finally qualifying so confidence has been good be that under speed or Coleman. We, on the other hand, have been stumbling from one calamity to another for a decade now and been on a downer. Confidence and self-belief are on a much lower level than Wales and Northern Ireland.

Just going by the latest squad, only 8 of 23 in the EPL, and only really Aaron Ramsey out of them could be considered elite, with Ashley Williams the next closest. The other 6 are all WBA, Burnley etc (mid-lower) and the rest of the squad are all championship and even league one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team#Current_squad

ETA: but I agree entirely that self belief is virtually zero with our lot.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rude Gullit

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, Rude Gullit said:

Just going by the latest squad, only 8 of 23 in the EPL, and only really Aaron Ramsey out of them could be considered elite, with Ashley Williams the next closest. The other 6 are all WBA, Burnley etc (mid-lower) and the rest of the squad are all championship and even league one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team#Current_squad

Going by latest squad is dodgy going due to you are over-looking the likes of those missed out due to injury who would have been in squad such as Collins (West Ham) and Davies (Tottenham). We have seen the evidence enough in our past meetings (under different managers) that Wales are better than us. Where they have been building momentum for years we have been languishing for years. Mentally we are punch drunk whereas Welsh team have their dander up.

[ProudScot]

36 minutes ago, Rude Gullit said:

Just going by the latest squad, only 8 of 23 in the EPL, and only really Aaron Ramsey out of them could be considered elite, with Ashley Williams the next closest. The other 6 are all WBA, Burnley etc (mid-lower) and the rest of the squad are all championship and even league one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team#Current_squad

ETA: but I agree entirely that self belief is virtually zero with our lot.

 

AShley Williams is a top level EPL centre half.

Our best centre half is on a championship teams bench.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

AShley Williams is a top level EPL centre half.

Our best centre half is on a championship teams bench.

Precisely. And they have a world class player who can turn games for them in Gareth Bale. We have barely international class players who are more likely to turn an ankle.

[Rude Gullit]

Williams is quality, but I wouldn't say he's quite at the level of Ramsey (different positions entirely, I realise).  Of course we would take Williams in an instant though.

I did look at the 'recent call-ups' of that Wikipedia page, expecting to see a swathe of other EPL guys that would invalidate my argument, but apart from Davies and Collins - neither of whom are regular starters for their clubs (Davies only played 6 games this season for Spurs) - that's it. Wales do have a better overall 'standard' than us, but not by as much as some claim. That's why I think it is a realistic aspiration to lift ourselves to their level. The Gareth Bale thing skews it a bit, but if we had, say, Ryan Fraser signing for Spurs and Tierney for Arsenal, that could shine a very different light on our squad.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rude Gullit

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, Rude Gullit said:

Williams is quality, but I wouldn't say he's quite at the level of Ramsey (different positions entirely, I realise).  Of course we would take Williams in an instant though.

I did look at the 'recent call-ups' of that Wikipedia page, expecting to see a swathe of other EPL guys that would invalidate my argument, but apart from Davies and Collins - neither of whom are regular starters for their clubs (Davies only played 6 games this season for Spurs) - that's it. Wales do have a better overall 'standard' than us, but not by as much as some claim. That's why I think it is a realistic aspiration to lift ourselves to their level. The Gareth Bale thing skews it a bit, but if we had, say, Ryan Fraser signing for Spurs and Tierney for Arsenal, that could shine a very different light on our squad.

No it wouldn't as I'd say they'd be bench-warmers at best and would soon be farmed out on loan or sold to a Championship side. The Bale thing puts Wales onto a different level from us as he is world class and changes matches - we don't have anybody that comes even close. He has the magic that ours don't. It is a bit liking him to Andy Murray and us to Kyle Edmund in tennis terms. One can produce moments of magic to turn matches on its head whilst the other isn't at that level and is unlikely to ever be.

[Parklife]

Caledonian Craig - You've made me laugh a lot this week, both in here and in the AOB forum. 

Thanks  

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Caledonian Craig - You've made me laugh a lot this week, both in here and in the AOB forum. 

Thanks  

Well it's good to laugh. 

[Bino's]

forget comparing us to Wales

 

they have spine of Williams, Allen, Ramsey & Bale - which is miles better than ours

 

we, N Ireland and the Republic have similar squads.  No top level players and players chosen from lower half premiership clubs and championship clubs, some worse in N Irelands case

 

You say Craig above its nothing to do with managers and that you cant polish a turd but then say that chopping and changing managers has made us worse

 

the real answer is we haven't had a decent manager since Smith left

 

Laagerback was a big miss for me, as whilst we all acknowledge we are nowhere near what we were, or what Wales are, we should be getting to 'some' play offs and then agonisingly being out out in them

 

 

[Return of Yermaw]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Caledonian Craig - You've made me laugh a lot this week, both in here and in the AOB forum. 

Thanks  

ha - thought it was just me. each Post purpotedly offers exacting insight into the problems of our national team but when asked to compare to smaller neighbours, each subsequent post contradicts the previous one. 

[Caledonian Craig]

49 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

ha - thought it was just me. each Post purpotedly offers exacting insight into the problems of our national team but when asked to compare to smaller neighbours, each subsequent post contradicts the previous one. 

Nothing like sticking your head in the sand I suppose.

Fact No 1 - We have stumbled through calamitous results to calamitous results over the last decade and not just under Strachan supporting the evidence we are shit.

Fact No 2 - Whilst we have been doing that Northern Ireland and Wales have been building momentum and confidence getting great results boosting confidence and team moral.

I've had enough of the pretence of blame the manager and change him and all will be well. That cycle has been completed time and time again in the last decade or two and nothing has changed and yes Strachan should have been sacked months ago but that does not change the crap standard that willbe left behind. I am of the mind that like junkies you cannot help them until they admit they have a problem - much like us in football terms. Until people here admit how dire we are and stop kidding themselves that we get Sir Alex and we become qualifiers then there is no helping us.

[GordyA88]

17 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Strachan is a small part of the reason we are failing at present.

The bigger picture says our players are not good enough at international level. The signs are there and you know that by reading posts here alone. Posts such as Griffiths and Rhodes being depicted as the answer to our problems yet both can't even hold down a first team spot at their clubs. We then put far too much faith in youth players thinking they are our next world class players and they sink without trace. We then get players who play one impressive match for their club being recommended for the Scotland squad. It all smacks of desperation. Until we can start producing a hard core string of 20+ players playing regular first team football at a high level we are going nowhere regardless of the manager.

A manager who knows what he's doing and has a team of lesser players who work hard and execute a game plan will never achieve anything then? 

Mind that time Leicester won the EPL? I suppose Wes Morgan is a world class centre back then. ?

[ProudScot]

22 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nothing like sticking your head in the sand I suppose.

Fact No 1 - We have stumbled through calamitous results to calamitous results over the last decade and not just under Strachan supporting the evidence we are shit.

Fact No 2 - Whilst we have been doing that Northern Ireland and Wales have been building momentum and confidence getting great results boosting confidence and team moral.

I've had enough of the pretence of blame the manager and change him and all will be well. That cycle has been completed time and time again in the last decade or two and nothing has changed and yes Strachan should have been sacked months ago but that does not change the crap standard that willbe left behind. I am of the mind that like junkies you cannot help them until they admit they have a problem - much like us in football terms. Until people here admit how dire we are and stop kidding themselves that we get Sir Alex and we become qualifiers then there is no helping us.

Nobody thinks a change of manager will turn us into qualifiers

Improvement is all we are asking for, will a change of manager achieve that? If we get a semi capable one, yes it will.

Edited March 3, 2017 by ProudScot

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, GordyA88 said:

A manager who knows what he's doing and has a team of lesser players who work hard and execute a game plan will never achieve anything then? 

Mind that time Leicester won the EPL? I suppose Wes Morgan is a world class centre back then. ?

So are you denying we are horse shit?

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, ProudScot said:

Nobody thinks a change of manager will turn us into qualifiers

Improvmeent is all we are asking for, will a change of manager achieve that? If we get a semi capable one, yes it will.

Define semi-capable though? A manager who wins titles? If so Walter Smith, McLeish and Strachan have all done that and failed. Heck Berti won titles at international level and failed.

[ProudScot]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Define semi-capable though? A manager who wins titles? If so Walter Smith, McLeish and Strachan have all done that and failed. Heck Berti won titles at international level and failed.

Someone better at selecting a squad, picking a team, justifying his decisions and talking to the media than Gordon Strachan is.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Someone better at selecting a squad, picking a team, justifying his decisions and talking to the media than Gordon Strachan is.

Like Smith and McLeish perhaps? Both of whom failed to get us to a major tournament as well. That is the bottom line here - turning us into qualifiers. The last time a manager of ours did that was in the last millennium.

My end point is I have had my fill of kidding myself we are something we are not. We stumble along with sub-standard players, fans pinning hopes on huge white elephants that fail to produce then a young pretender comes along and is said to be our next Dalglish and promptly sinks without trace. All demoralising after an extended period.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Caledonian Craig