Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 For avoidance of doubt, that post was absolutely dripping with sarcasm. Dreeping with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 A socialist elected to a pro business, pro capitalism, pro EU party. If she is indeed a socialist she'll find herself disciplined many... Many times. Are you basing this view on the past SNP leadership? or are you sure that this is the current position of the SNP with it's new wideranging membership? Strikes me that the type of hardline approach that you are alluding to would not go down very well. Is this actually just your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Explain what? The SNP are a business and capitalism first party. That's never been disputed... By anyone. Ever. The statement you made makes the SNP sound like a right-wing party - business and capitalism over workers and equality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Are you basing this view on the past SNP leadership? or are you sure that this is the current position of the SNP with it's new wideranging membership? Strikes me that the type of hardline approach that you are alluding to would not go down very well. Is this actually just your opinion? No I'm basing it on current leadership. Westminster and Holyrood Parliamentary members who disagree with leadership will be disciplined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) The statement you made makes the SNP sound like a right-wing party - business and capitalism over workers and equality...I've read your blog, you're a switched on guy. Do the research. Edit: Start with the Dundee porter strike as its current. Edited May 24, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 For avoidance of doubt, that post was absolutely dripping with sarcasm. Dreeping with it. Denying that Mhairi Black is a socialist, from a socialist background, would really just make you look silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Denying that Mhairi Black is a socialist, from a socialist background, would really just make you look silly Time will tell if she's a socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I think we need to give a lot of the SNP candidates time, socialists or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 No I'm basing it on current leadership. Westminster and Holyrood Parliamentary members who disagree with leadership will be disciplined. No I'm basing it on current leadership. Westminster and Holyrood Parliamentary members who disagree with leadership will be disciplined. Unless you can give concrete examples of this, then it's just conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Time will tell if she's a socialist. Exactly And rather than being cynical you should maybe take an alternative approach and see her being selected as a candidate as a sign of where the SNP are today and the direction they may be gradually heading to that of the Tartan Tories of 35 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I've read your blog, you're a switched on guy. Do the research. The SNP are centre-left (but more left-wing under Sturgeon than Salmond), Greens left-wing, SSP are left of the Greens. I'm probably not best placed in the SNP politically - I'm to the left of the SNP. I considered joining the Greens and SSP, but I feel the SNP is the fastest way to get independence. I didn't agree with the referendum policy of lowering corporation tax, but I can understand why it was in the white paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Unless you can give concrete examples of this, then it's just conjecture. It's the SNP's standing orders. It was voted through at the conference this year . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Exactly And rather than being cynical you should maybe take an alternative approach and see her being selected as a candidate as a sign of where the SNP are today and the direction they may be gradually heading to that of the Tartan Tories of 35 years ago I try not to be. But they just keep upsetting me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 The statement you made makes the SNP sound like a right-wing party - business and capitalism over workers and equality... Folk need to stop using 1 dimensional measuring sticks to measure a reality that has several dimensions. Left and Right are such crude approximations they're hardly useful these days. They have Authoritarian leanings, via the gender equality and named person policies, and are pro business as they want corporations to be taxed less than individuals. However it's hard to judge for me personally as it's always better to look at what a partry actually does, rather than what it says, and with limited power not all actions are visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 The SNP are centre-left (but more left-wing under Sturgeon than Salmond), Greens left-wing, SSP are left of the Greens. I'm probably not best placed in the SNP politically - I'm to the left of the SNP. I considered joining the Greens and SSP, but I feel the SNP is the fastest way to get independence. I didn't agree with the referendum policy of lowering corporation tax, but I can understand why it was in the white paper. left of what? Some arbitrary line? What units are left and right in? Is it Left=good Right =bad? It's a false dichotomy, left wing, right wing? Same Capitalist Bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 left of what? Some arbitrary line? What units are left and right in? Is it Left=good Right =bad? It's a false dichotomy, left wing, right wing? Same Capitalist Bird. Left - support for social equality. Right - regard social inequality as inevitable. Centre being the balance between social equality and social hierarchies. Folk need to stop using 1 dimensional measuring sticks to measure a reality that has several dimensions. Left and Right are such crude approximations they're hardly useful these days. They have Authoritarian leanings, via the gender equality and named person policies, and are pro business as they want corporations to be taxed less than individuals. However it's hard to judge for me personally as it's always better to look at what a partry actually does, rather than what it says, and with limited power not all actions are visible. Sturgeon has stated that under her leadership the SNP don't want corporations to be taxed less. SNP - Centre-Left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Left - support for social equality. Right - regard social inequality as inevitable. Centre being the balance between social equality and social hierarchies. Sturgeon has stated that under her leadership the SNP don't want corporations to be taxed less. SNP - Centre-Left. When did she say that? What she said is that she didn't want a flat rate reduction... She wants to reduce and raise when needed. But mostly reduce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-31700448 Targeted cuts to corporation tax to encourage investment in specific industries and / or locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 When did she say that? What she said is that she didn't want a flat rate reduction... She wants to reduce and raise when needed. But mostly reduce. I haven't seen her say explicitly she'd want to reduce the rate - I know she said she didn't want a flat rate reduction though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-31700448 Targeted cuts to corporation tax to encourage investment in specific industries and / or locations. Brainstorming for that one: 1. Electorate are horrified by corp tax reductions. 2. Everyone and their dug knows corp tax cuts don't promote growth, but increase inequality and poverty. 3. Let's tell everycünt we'll reduce it for a wee bit then raise it again when growth has been achieved... Cos our corporate masters won't object to that. 4. Profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Left - support for social equality. Right - regard social inequality as inevitable. Centre being the balance between social equality and social hierarchies. Sturgeon has stated that under her leadership the SNP don't want corporations to be taxed less. SNP - Centre-Left. Ah a 2 dimensional Cartesian Coordinate system(well two dimensions certainly allow much more description than one, but still woefully inadequate), I understand what you're saying, I don't need it explained i'm stating it's an ineffective metric mainly cause of it's over-simplification. I'm not asking anyone to explain it. I reckon the reason folk use it is it's extremely easy to understand, it's a woefully inaccurate model though. Incidentally i appear about two boxes in from both bottom and lefthandside, The problem with the definitions is they require further definiton, for example: Social equality: do you mean total equality as everyone provided the same measure by the state regardless of context, do you mean "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" like Louis Blanc and Karl Marx? Do you mean regarding social rights. Is it everyone will be afforded the same opportunities from birth then up to them what to do with it. In political theory there are loads of different types of inequality. Also some on the right just assume we live in a meritocracy and it's water finding it's level, i.e. it's society that is fair all ready and folk just need to work harder or "get on their bikes looking for work" as some Tory said. It's much better to discuss the individual policies on merit rather than just label things left or right. Anyway i'm rambling on, i recognise my own politics are vastly in the minority anyway and very much fringe, so occasionally i end up moaning about someone elses politics just to have something to talk about. Cheers for all the info on polls etc in the lead up to the referendum it was certainly interesting. Edited May 24, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 This is Shafi and Kitty Kat Boyds baby, both not SSP, if they've any sense they'll keep Colin Fox away from the media. Luckily, they have, which means if this project gets off the ground we won't hear much from the fudtastic Mr Fox. This article quite neatly highlights the man's buffoonery: http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/the-middle-classes-in-scotland-are-complacent-they-pay-lip-service-to-pover.25053495 Which social class does he think tends to read the Sunday Herald anyway? Clown. But yes, Cat and Jonathan should definitely take the lead in this new venture: young, bright, charismatic and ethical, they would be a welcome shot in the arm for left-wing politics in Scotland. Don't know how effective another socialist party would be Its potential, I feel, would be stilted until Scotland obtains the powers necessary to affect real social change, e.g. control over taxation, social security, the minimum wage and workers rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 It's not really is it? There absolutely does need to be a challenge to the left of the SNP and a coalition is the logical way to do so. The SNP are not welcoming to socialists and any attempt to establish a left group within the party is quickly closed down by leadership. It makes me sad that you took my wee Life of Brian joke seriously enough to type the above paragraph Splitter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Left - support for social equality. Right - regard social inequality as inevitable. Centre being the balance between social equality and social hierarchies. Sturgeon has stated that under her leadership the SNP don't want corporations to be taxed less. SNP - Centre-Left. Why are there no parties in the purple box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I think that when discussing politics the word "socialist" is pretty irrelevant. Most folk don't know what it means and have little, or no, interest in finding out. The folk who think they know what it means have about 1000 different definitions of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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