Barry Ferguson

[Parklife]

He rarely let Scotland down,

He was an excellent player but let's not re-write history.

He consistently let Scotland down. He pulled out of almost every friendly we had. He had a Scotland career spanning 11 years yet amassed only 45 caps. This is totally down to him.

That's before we even got on to his actions at Loch Lomond or his subsequent flicking the V's to all and sundry from the bench at the Iceland match. The National team captain sat on the subs bench and was giving folk the fingers.

[At U Peter]

It's quite embarrassing when you think of the emotional hold that the Old Firm has on many Scottish players.

There's nothing embarrassing about a player being attached to a certain club. Strange comment

[wanderer]

Took me a long time to appreciate Ferguson, as to me when he broke through and first few years he was just "Paul McStay Jr" in every sense (and at the time Scotland was not needing another one of these)

Always annoyed me when at Rangers in the early 00's he could boss a game no problem, yet stick him in a Scotland shirt and just did not look interested (I also put this down to trying to stick him and Lambert together.... Lambert by this stage was past it, so neither of them could do the darting runs to get our attacking going) and made all the worst by his call off after call off after call off for friendly matches......

Yet, when he went to Blackburn he seemed to raise his game a bit, and actually started to look really interested in playing for Scotland.

Really wish he had stuck it out down there as I think he would have progressed more, yet seemed to shine under Eck with Scotland (which I think was the only manager to get the most out of him).

[Robbo `81]

Ferguson's performance at Wembley in '99 is the best I have ever seen by a Scotland Midfielder - As others have said a pity his career went the way it did. What I do find refreshing however is the way he takes full responsibility for his actions and, unlike a lot of other footballers, blames no-one but himself for the things he done wrong

[aaid]

He was an excellent player but let's not re-write history.

He consistently let Scotland down. He pulled out of almost every friendly we had. He had a Scotland career spanning 11 years yet amassed only 45 caps. This is totally down to him.

That has to be taken in the context that for a large chunk of his career he played with niggling injuries and on painkillers, for a number of years he always seemed to be scheduled for some form of minor operation at the end of a season.

Of course he would play as many games as possible for his club but then I would expect the vast majority - if not all - professionals would do the same.

Cameron House aside, I can't really remember many occasions that he let us down for qualifying games.

I also remember being 2-0 down away in Toftir when Ferguson and Lambert between them got a hold of it at half time and dug us out of a right hole.

[Daz1982]

Ferguson's performance at Wembley in '99 is the best I have ever seen by a Scotland Midfielder - As others have said a pity his career went the way it did. What I do find refreshing however is the way he takes full responsibility for his actions and, unlike a lot of other footballers, blames no-one but himself for the things he done wrong

We absolutely bossed the game that night from start to finish, could and should have won 3 or 4 nil! The performance from Ferguson, Collins and the rest of the midfield was outstanding! England midfield was strong (on paper) that night too.....scholes, ince, beckham and redknapp i think.

Ironic to think that he probably would not have started had Lambert been fit. Had McCallister not have retired from international football by then he may have been even further down the pecking order.

We had some truelly great midfield players at that time. In my opinion the likes of Scott Brown and others in the squad at the moment are nowhere near the same class of footballer.

Like others have said before me, Ferguson would have been more suited to Italy or Spain rather than the hussle and bussle of the premiership down south.

[Flora MaDonald]

Ferguson was a good player. So was Durrant before he took a dive against Simmy.

[Parklife]

That has to be taken in the context that for a large chunk of his career he played with niggling injuries and on painkillers, for a number of years he always seemed to be scheduled for some form of minor operation at the end of a season.

Of course he would play as many games as possible for his club but then I would expect the vast majority - if not all - professionals would do the same.

Cameron House aside, I can't really remember many occasions that he let us down for qualifying games.

I also remember being 2-0 down away in Toftir when Ferguson and Lambert between them got a hold of it at half time and dug us out of a right hole.

Yup, he did have a lot of injuries. As a Scotland fan though it's frustrating to see him consistently pull out of Scotland squads, yet turn out for Rangers/Blackburn 3 days later.

[John_B81]

Yup, he did have a lot of injuries. As a Scotland fan though it's frustrating to see him consistently pull out of Scotland squads, yet turn out for Rangers/Blackburn 3 days later.

Yep that's the thing that irks some Scotland fans that he'd take painkilling injections to play for Rangers but not do the same for Scotland, bringing in that argument of "the club pays his wages" etc.

Had his moments in a Scotland shirt, game at Wembley, performances during Euro 08 qualifying, but could've done more imo. Still, the lifetime ban was harsh.

[wanderer]

Would not say he pulled out of many Scotland squads when he joined Blackburn, in fact there seemed to be a real spring in his step when playing for Scotland while down there (though he was out for a while when he got a leg injury (dislocated kneecap?) which was unavoidable) as I think he enjoyed playing under Souness there, and only left because Mark Hughes wanted as many of his Welsh players in the team when he took over, especially Robbie Savage)

Would agree though that it would really grind my gears when he would pull out of a midweek Scotland game v Austria midweek, but then on Saturday the media would be praising him to the high heavens for having the courage to take a pain killing injection in order to start against Partick Thistle in the league........

[aaid]

Yup, he did have a lot of injuries. As a Scotland fan though it's frustrating to see him consistently pull out of Scotland squads, yet turn out for Rangers/Blackburn 3 days later.

I've just been looking at his record, he was only at Blackburn for 16 months and was out injured for half a season after he broke his knee at Newcastle. During the time he was at Blackburn - outwith that major injury - he played in every Scotland match, but your point is valid.

In his second spell at Rangers, from what I can see there is only the friendly at home to Croatia which he pulled out of the squad from - along with most of the other Rangers players as there was an OF game the following weekend. In this period, the other friendlies he missed, he was never included in the squad in the first place. This could be for a number of reasons, he could have been injured at the time, the manager may have wanted to use a more experimental squad, he may have agreed with the manager to be left out.

I think its the first spell at Rangers where this all comes from - which also coincides with Berti Vogts being the manager loads of friendlies - a bit more difficult to establish with these if it was genuine enough but there its obviously something that has stuck with him throughout his career.

[1ANDYP]

Why should he take an injection to play in a friendly.can't believe anyone would think he would.he should have been rested at his club to let it clear up.

[Parklife]

I've just been looking at his record, he was only at Blackburn for 16 months and was out injured for half a season after he broke his knee at Newcastle. During the time he was at Blackburn - outwith that major injury - he played in every Scotland match, but your point is valid.

I'm pretty happy laying the blame at Rangers' door

[John_B81]

It wasn't just friendlies, there were a couple of qualifiers (notably Lithuania in 2003) that he also missed but played days later for Rangers and that's what irked some fans though he wasn't the only one guilty at the time.

[aaid]

It wasn't just friendlies, there were a couple of qualifiers (notably Lithuania in 2003) that he also missed but played days later for Rangers and that's what irked some fans though he wasn't the only one guilty at the time.

The game you are talking about, the 1-0 defeat in Kaunas, was the second game in a double header. Ferguson played in the first game withdrew after suffering an aggravation to the pelvic injury he had been playing through. Rangers next game was on the Saturday, he missed that but played in the next game after that which was 10 days after the Iceland game.

I've no doubt that there are plenty of examples of games where he's pulled out of squads and played for his club on the Saturday, I've given one myself, but as you say, he's hardly unusual in that.

I guess it does demonstrate how facts get forgotten as time passes but perceptions are strengthened.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/2908265.stm

[flynnyboy]

A fantastic player. Perhaps his time came just too soon as European football utterly swans over players like him now. His brother was immensely talented as well. Derek wasted his talent through his own misdemeanours, Barry had a mix of bad injuries and too much of a tie to ibrox. Really underrated when he played for us which may have been due to his club side. Was far, far more effective as a player for us than say Darren fletcher who is idiolised by many.

Don't really get the ned references? Yeah he made an arse of things during boozegate but he is in no way a ned. Never has been. He made a mistake, far lesser than many others to have played for our country. Easy to fall into the "only an excuse" portrait of the man.

[er yir macaroon]

A fantastic player. Perhaps his time came just too soon as European football utterly swans over players like him now. His brother was immensely talented as well. Derek wasted his talent through his own misdemeanours, Barry had a mix of bad injuries and too much of a tie to ibrox. Really underrated when he played for us which may have been due to his club side. Was far, far more effective as a player for us than say Darren fletcher who is idiolised by many.

Don't really get the ned references? Yeah he made an arse of things during boozegate but he is in no way a ned. Never has been. He made a mistake, far lesser than many others to have played for our country. Easy to fall into the "only an excuse" portrait of the man.

Spot on.

[er yir macaroon]

A lot of TA have a love in with John Collins. A good player who worked very hard to maximise his talent, but Ferguson had a lot more of it, and ultimately was a better player.

[Angus_Young]

A fantastic player. Perhaps his time came just too soon as European football utterly swans over players like him now. His brother was immensely talented as well. Derek wasted his talent through his own misdemeanours, Barry had a mix of bad injuries and too much of a tie to ibrox. Really underrated when he played for us which may have been due to his club side. Was far, far more effective as a player for us than say Darren fletcher who is idiolised by many.

Don't really get the ned references? Yeah he made an arse of things during boozegate but he is in no way a ned. Never has been. He made a mistake, far lesser than many others to have played for our country. Easy to fall into the "only an excuse" portrait of the man.

Hard to disagree with that. As I said further up the thread though I don't think he did himself any favours at times.

[Angus_Young]

A lot of TA have a love in with John Collins. A good player who worked very hard to maximise his talent, but Ferguson had a lot more of it, and ultimately was a better player.

Have to say I really rated Collins. Even when Celtic were garbage, if he was playing you always felt they had a chance.

[Angus_Young]

I'm pretty happy laying the blame at Rangers' door

Shock

[Robbo `81]

A lot of TA have a love in with John Collins. A good player who worked very hard to maximise his talent, but Ferguson had a lot more of it, and ultimately was a better player.

Interesting point that - I wonder where non OF Fans would stand if asked to choose between Ferguson and Collins at their respective peaks ?

For me, I'm probably siding with Collins - Just.

[Jagtag]

Interesting point that - I wonder where non OF Fans would stand if asked to choose between Ferguson and Collins at their respective peaks ?

For me, I'm probably siding with Collins - Just.

I'd take Collins any day of the week. I'm in the Ferguson was decent and no more camp. Could and should have been so much more but his best game for Scotland was Wembley 99 and never repeated it.

I remember a stat on here about 5 years ago that since he made his debut Scotland had played around 100 games or so and he had played in 45. At that same time Since Fletcher made his debut they had played about 50 and he had played in 46 or so. To me that sums him up. Never really interested in Scotland Unless it was a big game.

[Robbo `81]

Should've clarified - I meant to have 1 play for your club team and basing decision on quality as player only - Appreciate Jagtag, your answer may still be the same

Edited April 11, 2015 by Robbo `81

[er yir macaroon]

Collins had a very good left foot and worked hard but he couldn't control the tempo of a game like Ferguson.