Scouse Eddie Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Day 122 of the inquest and though i refrained from posting on the TAMB about this, today was time for the copper in charge on the day to face the jury Mr David Duckenfield. Though i mentioned many times on here when people have asked the question what do we mean by Justice for the 96, i have always said the decisions on the day that were made, were all wrong but with hindsight which is a great thing may never be repeated. What i am unable to accept is the lies and the blame which many in all authorities laid on the fans. Today the biggest lying corrupt of them all had to explain the TRUTH and i have took the following off the BBC website. .The match commander at Hillsborough has told a jury he "was probably not the best man for the job on the day". Former Ch Supt David Duckenfield was in charge of policing at Sheffield Wednesday's stadium when 96 Liverpool fans were fatally crushed in 1989. The new inquests have also heard he had had "no recent experience" of policing at the ground before the disaster. Mr Duckenfield, now 70, said, with the benefit of hindsight, it was a "serious mistake" to take the commander role. 'Limited' experience When the disaster happened, Mr Duckenfield had one season's experience at Hillsborough as a chief inspector, the jury heard. Previously, the court heard about 2,000 fans entered through an exit gate at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium after Mr Duckenfield gave the order to open it. Many of them ended up in the central terrace pens where the disaster unfolded. Giving evidence for the first time at the new inquests, Mr Duckenfield, who first visited the ground two weeks before the match, said he had had "no anxiety or hesitation" about taking command. But, although "delighted at the promotion", he later came to think he "probably was not the best man for the job on the day". David Duckenfield told the inquests he had "no anxiety or hesitation" in taking the match commander job Mr Duckenfield, dressed in a dark grey suit and purple tie, replied: "With hindsight, I should have thought about my limited knowledge of the role of a commander in a major event, that was an all-ticket, sell-out, when I had not been responsible, or in that responsible position previously." But at the time he was confident he was able to do it, and was assured he had an experienced team around him. "I did know what the job involved, but no-one, including me, knew what might evolve on the day and what difficulties we may face," he explained. During further questioning, Mr Duckenfield also conceded: He was unaware of crowd capacities at Hillsborough set out in the safety certificate He failed to recognise the risk of overcrowding caused by the existence of pens at the Leppings Lane terraces Everyone in the police control box, including him, had a "good view" of the pens [in Leppings Lane] His orders did not mention monitoring the pens, "I signed the order so I must accept responsibility" He only found out about the fans "finding their own level" on the terraces on the day of the disaster He had not heard of the "Freeman Tactic" of closing the tunnel leading to the central pens once the pens were full He "should have been more flexible" about the idea of delaying kick-off Operational police orders placed "more emphasis on preventing disorder than public safety" Mr Duckenfield told the jury he was adamant his predecessor, Ch Supt Brian Mole, did not offer to help him in his new role, as had been claimed earlier in the inquests. He described how he was expecting a "full-day" meeting with Mr Mole, including introductions to Sheffield Wednesday staff as he prepared to take over. But he stated: "Sadly for whatever reason, that didn't take place. "I went to see Mr Mole, expecting to have a whole day with him and he seemed, shall we say, in my view disappointed to be moving, wanting to clear his desk, jealously guarding his relationship, I thought, with Sheffield Wednesday, and offered me little or no advice." 'Ground was safe' Mr Duckenfield said he was not told about a previous crush at Hillsborough during the 1981 FA Cup semi-final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Had he known about what had happened at that game, he said more attention could have been paid to the Leppings Lane terraces. He said action could have been taken to "monitor very closely the pens and the influx of supporters to those pens." Mr Duckenfield told the jury: "Prior to the game, every piece of information I received was 'the ground's safe, the Operational Order caters for our needs, the staff are efficient, you have no concerns, whatsoever'. Because of that, I didn't go searching for something because I didn't know it existed." Ch Supt Duckenfield (far left) admitted he should have been 'more flexible' about delaying the match kick off Earlier in the inquests, former Supt Roger Marshall told the jury he may have mentioned the 1981 crush to Mr Duckenfield. But Mr Duckenfield denied this, adding: "If he had brought it to my attention prior to the match, I'm sure I would have focused on that and taken the necessary action." He confirmed to the jury he was familiar with the Green Guide - the government-issued sports ground safety manual. Mr Duckenfield said he "had knowledge" of South Yorkshire Police's major incident plan but not the codeword to initiate it. "My knowledge of the codeword - well, I didn't know the name and I'm surprised if any of my colleagues did." He added: "From my point of view, and I'm not being dismissive of the document, the better way, and it's just my way, is: 'this is a major incident' full stop, which means the same and it's better in my view." The hearing, being held in Warrington, Cheshire, continues. Every day of the inquest has been to the families and survivors advantage regarding their fight for Justice. Long may it continue and to every corrupt lying involved in the biggest cover up in the judicial system may you all rot in hell. Justice for the 96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHTOWER 1314 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) What an absolute clown of a man who took no responsibility for what happened instead he perpetrated the lies that it was the liverpool fans fault.His handling of hillsbrough that day was a disgrace and how he can say after all these years that he probably wasnt the best man for the job is beyond reason.Why did he take it in the first place.YNWA JFT 96 Edited March 10, 2015 by HIGHTOWER 1314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Astounding. Simply, astounding. Where's the clown who gave him the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 His handling of hillsbrough that day was a disgrace and how he can say after all these years that he probably wasnt the best man for the job is beyond reason.Why did he take it in the first place.YNWA JFT 96 I would never dream of defending the cover up and actions after the event, BUT I can understand why someone confident in their own ability and ambitious would take on a job that they thought could be a bit beyond them in an attempt to prove themselves. Obviously there has been a catalogue of errors that have resulted in this disaster and in hindsight he shouldn't have been given the task, but of all the things to condemn him for, actually accepting the position isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Can't recall the name of the book (Eddie?) but it gave an account of the events leading up to Duckenfield being placed in charge which are astonishing in themselves and say a lot about the culture within the Police in those days. I wasn't actually aware that he had a whole seasons experience of working at the ground, I was under impression this was his first time there, so that makes things even worse, if that's possible. He should just admit he lied about the fans forcing the gate cos that first lie led to a succession of more lies and cover-ups which have gone round in circles for years and only led to nothing but heartbreak for families and friends of those who died. If, as I believe, he opened the external gate in good faith to prevent injuries/loss of life, then this unfortunately led directly to the tragedy as he didn't, but should have, forseen the consequences of so many fans entering at the same time. I only pray that the families are allowed to finally grieve properly after all this and it brings closure to them. R.I.P the 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Day 122 of the inquest and though i refrained from posting on the TAMB about this, today was time for the copper in charge on the day to face the jury Mr David Duckenfield. Though i mentioned many times on here when people have asked the question what do we mean by Justice for the 96, i have always said the decisions on the day that were made, were all wrong but with hindsight which is a great thing may never be repeated. What i am unable to accept is the lies and the blame which many in all authorities laid on the fans. Today the biggest lying corrupt of them all had to explain the TRUTH and i have took the following off the BBC website. .The match commander at Hillsborough has told a jury he "was probably not the best man for the job on the day". Former Ch Supt David Duckenfield was in charge of policing at Sheffield Wednesday's stadium when 96 Liverpool fans were fatally crushed in 1989. The new inquests have also heard he had had "no recent experience" of policing at the ground before the disaster. Mr Duckenfield, now 70, said, with the benefit of hindsight, it was a "serious mistake" to take the commander role. 'Limited' experience When the disaster happened, Mr Duckenfield had one season's experience at Hillsborough as a chief inspector, the jury heard. Previously, the court heard about 2,000 fans entered through an exit gate at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium after Mr Duckenfield gave the order to open it. Many of them ended up in the central terrace pens where the disaster unfolded. Giving evidence for the first time at the new inquests, Mr Duckenfield, who first visited the ground two weeks before the match, said he had had "no anxiety or hesitation" about taking command. But, although "delighted at the promotion", he later came to think he "probably was not the best man for the job on the day". David Duckenfield told the inquests he had "no anxiety or hesitation" in taking the match commander job Mr Duckenfield, dressed in a dark grey suit and purple tie, replied: "With hindsight, I should have thought about my limited knowledge of the role of a commander in a major event, that was an all-ticket, sell-out, when I had not been responsible, or in that responsible position previously." But at the time he was confident he was able to do it, and was assured he had an experienced team around him. "I did know what the job involved, but no-one, including me, knew what might evolve on the day and what difficulties we may face," he explained. During further questioning, Mr Duckenfield also conceded: He was unaware of crowd capacities at Hillsborough set out in the safety certificate He failed to recognise the risk of overcrowding caused by the existence of pens at the Leppings Lane terraces Everyone in the police control box, including him, had a "good view" of the pens [in Leppings Lane] His orders did not mention monitoring the pens, "I signed the order so I must accept responsibility" He only found out about the fans "finding their own level" on the terraces on the day of the disaster He had not heard of the "Freeman Tactic" of closing the tunnel leading to the central pens once the pens were full He "should have been more flexible" about the idea of delaying kick-off Operational police orders placed "more emphasis on preventing disorder than public safety" Mr Duckenfield told the jury he was adamant his predecessor, Ch Supt Brian Mole, did not offer to help him in his new role, as had been claimed earlier in the inquests. He described how he was expecting a "full-day" meeting with Mr Mole, including introductions to Sheffield Wednesday staff as he prepared to take over. But he stated: "Sadly for whatever reason, that didn't take place. "I went to see Mr Mole, expecting to have a whole day with him and he seemed, shall we say, in my view disappointed to be moving, wanting to clear his desk, jealously guarding his relationship, I thought, with Sheffield Wednesday, and offered me little or no advice." 'Ground was safe' Mr Duckenfield said he was not told about a previous crush at Hillsborough during the 1981 FA Cup semi-final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Had he known about what had happened at that game, he said more attention could have been paid to the Leppings Lane terraces. He said action could have been taken to "monitor very closely the pens and the influx of supporters to those pens." Mr Duckenfield told the jury: "Prior to the game, every piece of information I received was 'the ground's safe, the Operational Order caters for our needs, the staff are efficient, you have no concerns, whatsoever'. Because of that, I didn't go searching for something because I didn't know it existed." Ch Supt Duckenfield (far left) admitted he should have been 'more flexible' about delaying the match kick off Earlier in the inquests, former Supt Roger Marshall told the jury he may have mentioned the 1981 crush to Mr Duckenfield. But Mr Duckenfield denied this, adding: "If he had brought it to my attention prior to the match, I'm sure I would have focused on that and taken the necessary action." He confirmed to the jury he was familiar with the Green Guide - the government-issued sports ground safety manual. Mr Duckenfield said he "had knowledge" of South Yorkshire Police's major incident plan but not the codeword to initiate it. "My knowledge of the codeword - well, I didn't know the name and I'm surprised if any of my colleagues did." He added: "From my point of view, and I'm not being dismissive of the document, the better way, and it's just my way, is: 'this is a major incident' full stop, which means the same and it's better in my view." The hearing, being held in Warrington, Cheshire, continues. Every day of the inquest has been to the families and survivors advantage regarding their fight for Justice. Long may it continue and to every corrupt lying involved in the biggest cover up in the judicial system may you all rot in hell. Justice for the 96 If there was a cover up and it can be proved laws were broken those responsible should be prosecuted. However nothing will change what happened. The police played their part, the FA played their part and so did the fans and 96 people didnt come home from a football match. Learn the lessons and make sure it doesnt happen again. 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John_B81 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 His incompetence on the day and subsequent cover-up afterwards should be enough to prosecute him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 It's taken him 25 years to admit the truth. What a coward...he used his position, his power, and the protection he knew he'd receive from his colleagues and government to cover his lies, and put the families through hell for years. What a disgusting individual. I'd love to see him prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbruman Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 should be prosecuted perverting the course of justice at least. Would be even better if the whole pack of lies and cover up from the police and government was exposed. To me - he has to take responsibility for the deaths - any normal human being would have opened the gates on the fences to allow people to spill on to pitch. But was indicative of the disdain with which police treated any football supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofoi Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It's taken him 25 years to admit the truth. What a coward...he used his position, his power, and the protection he knew he'd receive from his colleagues and government to cover his lies, and put the families through hell for years. What a disgusting individual. I'd love to see him prosecuted. Cowardice is spot on. That is the exact description. Today he is claiming he has PTSD. What a terrible burden putting your career and reputation ahead of humanity and incompetence. His evidence alone should lead to him being prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Cowardice is spot on. That is the exact description. Today he is claiming he has PTSD. What a terrible burden putting your career and reputation ahead of humanity and incompetence. His evidence alone should lead to him being prosecuted. He's got PTSD?!?!?! What about the families of the 96? What about the people who were caught in the crush and survived? i think he'll find that they've suffered more trauma over the years than he has. If he's traumatised, then I personally have no sympathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofoi Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 He's got PTSD?!?!?! What about the families of the 96? What about the people who were caught in the crush and survived? i think he'll find that they've suffered more trauma over the years than he has. If he's traumatised, then I personally have no sympathy News reports said there were audible gasps in court from the families when he said that. Defence QCs putting it on him that his first lie set the whole conspiracy in motion. Whilst admitting his lie yesterday, today he denies he was responsible for the cover up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Am just curious Has anyone who showed up late at the game without a ticket ever come forward and put their hands up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Am just curious Has anyone who showed up late at the game without a ticket ever come forward and put their hands up For what? Put there hands up for what? the inquest found that was pretty much exaggerated propaganda. "LJ Taylor found no evidence to demonstrate that there was a 'very significant body of ticketless fans in the crowd which built up'. He also dismissed the 'slender evidence' on which the 'suggestion that fans without tickets conspired to arrive late and create such trouble as would force the police to admit them to the match' was based,"" So glad this has came out, considering the way some folk used to talk about it. Edited March 12, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofoi Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Am just curious Has anyone who showed up late at the game without a ticket ever come forward and put their hands up What do you mean? At this game? At any game? Think the damage was done before late arrivals after kick off. Equally look how many people are still outside hampden in queues after kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bzzzz Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 So he admits he lied but he didn't cover anything up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy North Croy Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 His lie about fans forcing the outside gates led to a chain of further lies and cover-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 His lie about fans forcing the outside gates led to a chain of further lies and cover-ups. Surely he is guilty of perjury and a custodial sentence awaits. Better late than never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse Eddie Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Day 4 for Duckenfield Hillsborough chief David Duckenfield 'buried head in sand' David Duckenfield was in charge when a crush developed in terraced pens on 15 April 1989 Continue reading the main story Hillsborough Inquests Chief says 'mistakes caused disaster' Police boss admits Hillsborough lie Police boss 'not best man for job' Police chief quizzed over statement The Hillsborough police match commander has made an emotional apology to the families of the victims, telling them: "It's now dawned on me what it means to you." David Duckenfield also said he had to seek medical help after being unable to "bear the word 'Hillsborough'". The former chief superintendent was in charge on the day of the disaster which led to the deaths of 96 football fans. He said he had "buried his head in the sand" but now wanted to tell the truth. Mr Duckenfield, now aged 70, was giving evidence for a fourth day at the new inquests into the deaths stemming from the 1989 FA Cup semi-final. Some relatives of the Liverpool fans who died were in tears as the retired officer spoke, while others walked out of the courtroom in Warrington, Cheshire. Earlier this week, he agreed he was incompetent and that his "mistakes" and "oversight" had contributed to the disaster. Who were the 96 victims? BBC News: Profiles of all those who died Addressing the jury as dozens of relatives looked on from the public gallery, Mr Duckenfield said: "When the [Hillsborough Independent Panel] report was published [in 2012] I hid myself away and could not bear the word 'Hillsborough' and could not bear to think about it. "I hope you understand this. I hoped it would go away." He continued: "But then, two years ago, I had to force myself to look at matters and, as a result, I could only do so with the assistance of doctors. "Over this period, I have come to terms with reality, and that is why, over the period, you might say I dug my head in the sand, didn't admit things to myself. "But I am now very much older, very much wiser and very much more understanding of the events of the day and have decided to tell the whole truth." 'Tragic circumstances' The former South Yorkshire Police officer was being questioned by Michael Mansfield QC, who represents a group of the Hillsborough families. Mr Duckenfield said he had watched a video of families saying goodbye to their loved ones on a gymnasium floor. He described it as "the most moving thing I've ever seen". "For the first time, I have seen what it means to a mother to lose a loved one. Not only in these tragic circumstances, but to have to say their goodbyes so unexpectedly in a gymnasium, on a dirty floor, cuddling that person tearfully, and you can't share with that person your grief, your sorrow and your sadness. "It struck me that if it was my child or grandchild, I would have hoped there could have been some more privacy, some more care, and some more support, because there must be nothing more undignified. "To the families, I say this: I'm terribly sorry. It's now dawned on me what it means to you and I'm dreadfully sorry." Rajiv Menon QC, also representing a group of victims' families, had earlier put it to Mr Duckenfield that his leadership on the day of the disaster was "woefully inadequate from start to finish". The retired officer defended his record but conceded that "the buck stops with me". Mr Duckenfield will continue giving evidence to the inquests on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Although the buck stops with Duckenfield, I'd love to see the likes of Paul Middup, the then secretary of the Police Federation, being hauled up before this inquest and ask if he would care to continue to back up his assertions that tanked up fans, as he put it, were still responsible for this awful tragedy. Perhaps assisted by the odious Bernard Ingham, one of Thatchers henchman, who had the audacity to respond to one of the mothers that drunk Liverpool fans contributed to her son's death. At long last, this inquest has opened a Pandora's Box. And it ain't being shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHTOWER 1314 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Pandoras box is fully open and it will never shut not until all the corrupt lying twats are locked up where they belong and that includes that odious person kelvin mackenzie.A man so despised for what he said that even his family dont like him and he would need a bodyguard if he ever ventured into liverpool. Edited March 15, 2015 by HIGHTOWER 1314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Just a pity thatcher is buried. Just like Jimmy Saville she would have a few awkward questions to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHTOWER 1314 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 As far as i am concerned she has got off lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_B81 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Although the buck stops with Duckenfield, I'd love to see the likes of Paul Middup, the then secretary of the Police Federation, being hauled up before this inquest and ask if he would care to continue to back up his assertions that tanked up fans, as he put it, were still responsible for this awful tragedy. Perhaps assisted by the odious Bernard Ingham, one of Thatchers henchman, who had the audacity to respond to one of the mothers that drunk Liverpool fans contributed to her son's death. At long last, this inquest has opened a Pandora's Box. And it ain't being shut. Agree that there should be more than Duckenfield who gets convicted over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I find Duckenfield's pathetic pleas for sympathy to be absolutely disgusting, and incredibly insulting to the families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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