Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Are you honestly telling me that you've been at a game, heard a song and gone "hmm - is that sectarian?" Indulge us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hardly a wonder bigotry is still so common at Ibrox when their fans seem more intent on making excuses for it then telling folk beside them in the stands to stop acting like scumbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Personally, I don't understand why decent people support Rangers. Rangers ARE sectarian, it's not an adjunct, it's the reason the club is and it's been their lifeblood ever since Celtic came along. This Rangers is the same club as the old Rangers. Same values, same triumphalism, same small minded bigotry. Why support them, unless you're into waving Union Jacks and hating Catholics? There are plenty of other, less toxic football clubs. Just my opinion, I just don't get it. Certainly aint because they are glory hunters. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You're excusing the authorities, the SFA, the SPFL and the clubs' inability to address this issue by suggesting that what is and isn't sectarian is difficult to define. It's easy to define. It's a lack of will to address it and eradicate it that's the problem. I'm not saying it's difficult to define what is sectarian. That's the easy bit. Defining what is offensive is the hard bit. The law has to cover both, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hardly a wonder bigotry is still so common at Ibrox when their fans seem more intent on making excuses for it then telling folk beside them in the stands to stop acting like scumbags.Bollocks! I've done just that and been threatened for it. I got no backup from Stewards or Police so why should I do it again? As you've said these people are scum, so they wouldn't be shy of kicking your head in if they felt like it. The authorities need to take the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not saying it's difficult to define what is sectarian. That's the easy bit. Defining what is offensive is the hard bit. The law has to cover both, don't you think? Surely sectarian and offensive are the same thing to any reasonable person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not saying it's difficult to define what is sectarian. That's the easy bit. Defining what is offensive is the hard bit. The law has to cover both, don't you think? What does the current law stateHonest question ; am not aware of the current wording Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What about songs about child abuse? The Richard Gough chants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Surely sectarian and offensive are the same thing to any reasonable person? Not really. Something can be offensive without being sectarian e.g. homophobic chanting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Not really. Something can be offensive without being sectarian e.g. homophobic chanting. Maybe I misunderstood what Renfrewblue was saying in his post. I thought he meant just because something's sectarian or offensive to one person, it may not be to another. Reading it again, I probably misread it Edited February 9, 2015 by redstevie007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not saying it's difficult to define what is sectarian. That's the easy bit. Defining what is offensive is the hard bit. The law has to cover both, don't you think? No, I don't think the law has to cover both. What's offensive and what's not is highly subjective - having a law on it is fraught with problems and bound to fail. "Offensive" songs are also sung at football grounds around the world. Sectarian singing is a problem peculiar to football grounds in Scotland, its a problem the authorities have been unable or unwilling to address and is far easier to define than what is offensive and what is not. Focus on the sectarian singing and eradicate it, don't get distracted by what may or may not be offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Is there a parallel in saying not to legislate against smoking because alcohol is also an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Not really. Something can be offensive without being sectarian e.g. homophobic chanting. Mind being at a midweek game v hearts at pittodrie where Justin Fashanau was playingWas very little or no stuff aimed at him Not sure if the fans were that accepting 20 yrs back or fact was a dismal 0-0 midweek game , cold night etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbruman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I went to Hearts v Athletico Madrid in a midweek match where Fashanu was playing. He was royally pish. Female three rows in front shouts to the manager Sandy Clark " Haw Sandy - get that big black English poof aff the park" . She probably didn't know whether he was Catholic or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I went to Hearts v Athletico Madrid in a midweek match where Fashanu was playing. He was royally pish. Female three rows in front shouts to the manager Sandy Clark " Haw Sandy - get that big black English poof aff the park" . She probably didn't know whether he was Catholic or not. Such heightism is completely unacceptable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood what Renfrewblue was saying in his post. I thought he meant just because something's sectarian or offensive to one person, it may not be to another. Reading it again, I probably misread it You did misunderstand me but I'm not going to be offended by it. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, I don't think the law has to cover both. What's offensive and what's not is highly subjective - having a law on it is fraught with problems and bound to fail. "Offensive" songs are also sung at football grounds around the world. Sectarian singing is a problem peculiar to football grounds in Scotland, its a problem the authorities have been unable or unwilling to address and is far easier to define than what is offensive and what is not. Focus on the sectarian singing and eradicate it, don't get distracted by what may or may not be offensive. Do you think being called a fenian bassa is somehow worse than being called a paedo bassa? I'm no' keen on either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, I don't think the law has to cover both. What's offensive and what's not is highly subjective - having a law on it is fraught with problems and bound to fail. "Offensive" songs are also sung at football grounds around the world. Sectarian singing is a problem peculiar to football grounds in Scotland, its a problem the authorities have been unable or unwilling to address and is far easier to define than what is offensive and what is not. Focus on the sectarian singing and eradicate it, don't get distracted by what may or may not be offensive. You may be right but I'd like to think it's not beyond the wit of man to define offensive songs and eradicate them as they should be with the sectarian singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think the club or the authorities are going to change people's beliefs, that's something much bigger than football but there's no doubt that people use Rangers as a vehicle to air their bigoted views, in that respect the club and SFA should do everything in their power to stop sectarianism. Something they haven't done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Don't know about other grounds but before every match at Pittodrie there is an announcement made warning about fan behaviour and all the possible consequences for the club which includes a warning of points loss or forfeiting a cup game. Therefore the rules are already in place but it seems there is not yet a willingness to use them. As I have said before UEFA have acted quickly and fairly decisively when incidents have arisen within their jurisdiction. It is up to our authorities to do the same. A few fines & stand closures with the threat of points loss for a further offence should hopefully see a big improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Is there a parallel in saying not to legislate against smoking because alcohol is also an issue? Yes there is. And certain posters are acting like the tobacco companies. "I don't know what's sectarian and what's not and anyway those songs about child abuse are just as bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yes there is. And certain posters are acting like the tobacco companies. "I don't know what's sectarian and what's not and anyway those songs about child abuse are just as bad." Do you think being called a fenian bassa is somehow worse than being called a paedo bassa? I'm no' keen on either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Do you think being called a fenian bassa is somehow worse than being called a paedo bassa? I'm no' keen on either. I've been called worse (a unionist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You may be right but I'd like to think it's not beyond the wit of man to define offensive songs and eradicate them as they should be with the sectarian singing. Do we have to put a hold on dealing with the sectarian songs until you've defined what is and isn't offensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Do you think being called a fenian bassa is somehow worse than being called a paedo bassa? I'm no' keen on either. You've already said that. Same old, same old - deny, deflect and confuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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