Parklife Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Is Delia also still claiming he "knows" Tonev is innocent?!He's claiming there should be some new balance of proof required, rather than the rules all clubs have agreed to. He, like ek Celt, seems to think that different rules should apply to Tonev, rather than the ones which apply to everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) No. TJ is referring to the previous rape accusation. I see delia has already shown that he doesn't know the rules under which the case was judged. Ah I get you. Charges were dropped for that though. Just goes to show how dangerous and damaging stuff like that can be. A Dons fan doesn't want him there because he was accused of doing something that wasn't progressed to court. If he is guity then of course he should be sacked and jailed. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Just read his comments now, regarding 'that's not how a court should work'. I think some folk are forgetting that conclusive proof isn't needed as it's not a court of law. The panel sees the evidence, and they make a judgment on it. Can argue all day if that's a good way to go about things or not I suppose. You got a link to this published document m8? Edited December 16, 2014 by Angus_Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Farrington Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think that's the best (only) solution. I've never thought Logan lied - just that he might have misheard Tonev. We're working on person's word against the other's & from what I've read, Tonev's account isn't the best. I'd side with Logan & I can't see how letting this rumble on will do any good. Hopefyully we put this to be & don't keep digging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Edited December 16, 2014 by Cove_Sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ah I get you. Charges were dropped for that though. Just goes to show how dangerous and damaging stuff like that can be. A Dons fan doesn't want him there because he was accused of doing something that wasn't progressed to court. If he is guity then of course he should be sacked and jailed. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Just read his comments now, regarding 'that's not how a court should work'. I think some folk are forgetting that conclusive proof isn't needed as it's not a court of law. The panel sees the evidence, and they make a judgment on it. Can argue all day if that's a good way to go about things or not I suppose. You got a link to this published document m8? I believe the victim rather than the wealthy footballer with the good lawyer.Me bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I believe the victim rather than the wealthy footballer with the good lawyer.Me bad. Ah I see, he plays fitba, sorry I didn't realise mate, that's me convinced. Thank feck you don't preside over the countries High Court cases, if that's all you need, as way of evidence In all seriousness, if he is guilty of this, I hope he gets his baws chopped off and never kicks a ball again...............might well find out, was reading there that the girl in question has been granted legal aid to sue him and David Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 . No, they thought he was a more credible and reliable witness. Yes, that's what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Disgusting player for a disgusting club with disgusting fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ah I see, he plays fitba, sorry I didn't realise mate, that's me convinced. Thank feck you don't preside over the countries High Court cases, if that's all you need, as way of evidence In all seriousness, if he is guilty of this, I hope he gets his baws chopped off and never kicks a ball again...............might well find out, was reading there that the girl in question has been granted legal aid to sue him and David Robertson. That convinces me there's more to it than meets the eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 She got awarded the highest possible compensation too didn't she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) That convinces me there's more to it than meets the eye You may well be right but it's a hard one IMO. Just need to look at the recent (tragic) Eleanor De Freitas case so see the flip side to things like this. Tragic case all round but you do wonder what would have happened if people had just decided to believe the 'victim'. It does beg the question though, if he is innocent, why not counter sue to clear his name? Not like he doesn't have the money. Probably getting off track now anyway. Guess we will soon see what comes of it and if he is found guilty, I hope he is jailed for a very long time Edited December 16, 2014 by Angus_Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 was the weather slightly overcast when they played each other ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I believe the victim rather than the wealthy footballer with the good lawyer.Me bad. So those not wealthy or without good representation tend to be honest and credible? do you apply that rationale consistently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Disgusting player for a disgusting club with disgusting fans. He's been found guilty of racism,leave the man alone now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No surprise that Celtic are Dejans Scottish club of choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The compliance officer led evidence from Bobby Madden who was the match referee. Madden stated that, around the 55th minute, that he was approached by the Aberdeen captain Mark Reynolds and advised that Logan had been subjected to a racist comment by Mr Tonev. One minute later, Mr Logan approached him, intimated that he had been called a “black ****” and pointed to Tonev. The referee indicated that Logan’s demeanour was "somewhere between upset and angry". Mr. Madden asked Mr Logan to focus on playing football as he would deal with it later. He was then shown video footage of the match and confirmed that at the 56th minute he could be seen in conversation with Logan. Shay Logan's statement Logan gave evidence that around the 52nd minute he was involved in a tackle with Tonev which he accepted was a foul. He made a hand gesture to apologise to the referee and to Tonev for the tackle. This gesture can be seen in the video evidence. Play resumed and the players came together again, within the penalty box. Mr. Logan placed his arm across Tonev's chest. Almost immediately after this, Tonev was claimed to have said “don’t touch me you black ****”. Logan said he looked at him and then he made some comment along the lines of “are you sure?” and Tonev replied “yes, yes”. Logan indicated he wanted to get the attention of someone, either the referee or his captain. He saw his captain and went over to speak to him. He informed Mark Reynolds of what had been said – this was within one minute of the offensive remark being made, and as soon as there was no real danger of the opponent scoring. Thereafter, at the first opportunity he spoke to the referee and informed him of the racist remark made by Tonev. In the 60th minute David Goodwillie scored for the Dons to make it 2-1 and Logan went to speak to boss Derek McInnes and advised him of what had been said. Later in the game, Logan spoke to Tonev again and asked him if he still thought that he was "a black ****" and stated that he would “see him in the tunnel”. On being asked by the compliance officer if he could be mistaken he replied “one million per cent no". He said that he would never try to tarnish anyone’s career and that he knew "what the word black sounds like". He further stated that during his playing career he had previously been a victim of a racial abuse on the football park when playing for Manchester City reserves against Bolton. He did not require to report this, as the referee was standing right next to him. After the game Celtic assistant Collins also asked him if he was sure of what was said and he replied “one million percent”. When asked by the compliance officer if he had any reason to make up the allegation he replied: “I would never do that. This was the first time I had met him during this game. I have no reason to lie”. He went on to say: “I know it will have a damaging effect on the player but I would never choose to put that on anyone unless it was true”. Video clips back up Logan’s reaction, showing him speaking to Reynolds, Reynolds talking to the referee, Logan not celebrating the Dons goal and speaking to McInnes. During cross examination it was put to Logan that he had simply misheard what Tonev had said. In reply Logan said: “You can suggest it but I know what he said”. Mr O’Donnell then put to him that perhaps what he had said to him was "get off me" or maybe "don’t touch me". Mr Logan stated that Mr Tonev said “don’t touch me you black ****”. Mark Reynolds' statement The next witness was Mark Reynolds, the Aberdeen captain. He gave evidence that around the 54th or 55th minute that Logan had approached him and stated that Tonev had called him (Logan) a black ****. Mr. Logan was clearly agitated and a couple of minutes later he saw Mr Logan speak to the referee. Mr Reynolds spoke to the faraway side linesman. Logan’s demeanour indicated that he was annoyed and from Logan’s body language you could tell that it was serious. Reynolds said that Logan was not a player that was easily ruffled and it was very unusual to see him like that. Reynolds did not heard what was said between Logan and Tonev. Derek McInnes’ statement The Dons boss gave evidence that, immediately after Aberdeen had scored, he had been approached by Logan who had said that Tonev had called him a ‘black ****’. Logan was not celebrating the goal. McInnes could see that his player appeared annoyed but asked him to keep his discipline throughout the match. McInnes reported the matter to the match officials but also to John Collins. McInnes confirmed he had not heard what Tonev said to Logan when cross-examined. John Collins’ statement He stated that during the match he had been advised by McInnes of the incident. He spoke to Tonev who appeared to be shocked and bemused when the allegation was put to him. Collins had said to Tonev that he should apologise if he had said something "in a moment of madness". However, Tonev was adamant that he had not made the remark complained of. Aleksandar Tonev’s statement Tonev claims he only said “get your hands off me” when Logan had taken hold of him. He denied calling him a black ****. Tonev claims he did not know that the word **** meant and denied ever saying it. He also stated that there was no further discussion between the players on the pitch. He said the first time he was aware of the phrase being used was when John Collins spoke to him. He told the panel that he had played football with many black players and would not use language of this kind. He accepted that there was no place for racism in football. Decision The panel believed that Logan’s account was, on the balance of probabilities, more probable than that of Tonev’s and that the circumstantial evidence supported Logan’s version as being true and reliable. Logan was said to have given his evidence in a clear fashion and he had no motive to lie. They also found the video footage clearly showed Logan interact with, Reynolds, McInnes and Madden and his demeanour supported his credibility. The panel stated: “Accordingly, and taking into account the largely uncontested evidence of the other witnesses and video evidence, we found on the balance of probabilities that Mr Tonev did say to Mr Logan ‘Get your hands off me you black ****’. “In light of the concessions made by parties, we also found that this amounted to the use of offensive, insulting and abusive language of a racist nature in breach of rule 202.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I am really struggling to comprehend why the Celtic QC suggested the weather might be a cause for "mishearing" what Tonev said. Now having never seen any footage of this incident whatsoever but reading a bit on here, which suggests they were next to each other when the incident occurred, I am thinking Scott of the Antarctic type weather on the day of the match, you know, when they are sort of wandering around in blizzard conditions and its blowing a force 10 gale. Did that weather affect the game at all?! "the weather conditions" - FFS!! He has been found guilty and his appeal has failed, time for him to be sent back to Villa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 So those not wealthy or without good representation tend to be honest and credible? do you apply that rationale consistently? when a girl has been "allegedly" raped by someone wealthy I probably would apply it consistently Oh I see , you thought I used the same rationale when talking about serial offenders with not a pot to piss in who are up in court every other week ? I can see how you could make that massive leap from one to the other to put words in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This will prove helpful, I'm sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This will prove helpful, I'm sure... He should be fined by Aberdeen FC for that .What a complete and utter ####in tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 He should be fined by Aberdeen FC for that .What a complete and utter ####in tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoltanBuchan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I get called a "tartan sweaty sock" down in England quite a lot, I suppose depending on your tartan that could cover many colours ? But i don't give a !!! Good for you. Maybe you would 'give a phuk' though, if Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech had been about Scots, not black people. If boarding houses in London used to have signs in the window saying "No Scots, no Irish, no dogs", " instead of "No blacks, no Irish, no dogs". If Stephen Lawrence had been murdered for being Scottish, not black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Disappointed in Logan posting that. He has obviously been placed under a huge amount of scrutiny and pressure but he'd have been better advised to keep a low profile on this. That said he's not used any inappropriate language and a wee word in his shell-like should suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Very poor. Hasn't done himself any favours with that crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'll give Evens on this thread having more posts criticising Logan for posting a daft photo, than posts criticising Tonev for calling someone a black c**t. It's the nature of the TA Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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