Reflections on the campaign

[wanderer]

45 minutes ago, GroundsKeeper said:

Haaland was never scoring in open play. He was helped by the ref. 

Dodgy / Soft/ Cheating

Not as dodgy as Seville though but still a helping hand.

I think Ryan Porteous helped him a lot more than the ref when he tugged at his shirt.......

What was dodgy in Seville?

Its been proven that we had a player in a off side position when we scored.

No idea where you are scraping the under side of the barrel for some big conspiracy that is simply not there.....

[StirlingEgg]

23 hours ago, Burj_Alba said:

This just came up on my You tube Scottish National Team feed.

Cracking video

 

 

👍I think it's Kenny McLean's reaction that does it for me 🥲

The wider effect on next year such as  kids getting excited should be great. I was walking behind some boys on the way to school the other day, maybe p5/6 and they were talking animatedly about what teams they wanted us to get. Saying things like "I want Slovakia and Romania"! I'm looking forward to getting the wee man a sticker album although it's not Panini doing it. Which Scotland player could match the 2014 Messi £115,000 rarity I wonder...Handsome Craig Gordon's swansong 😀

I don't know if the tv is already in place but really hope we're not watching it through England tinted specs. 

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, GroundsKeeper said:

Serbia play off.

Clarke takes Mcginn off and Serbia run over the top of us and equalise.

Penalties and Marshall saves his bacon.

I am a big Clarke fan and ofcourse he is tactically aware and deserves lot of credit.

But he's a lucky manger.

We got a dong in Dublin and were 1 down in Armenia.

Their best player gets sent off. Scotland win comfortably.

Another fortunate event. Again lucky is good and I hope the luck keeps running.

We were the better team against Serbia. They didn't look like scoring the whole match whereas we created plenty of chances.

Serbia were lucky that it went to extra time and penalties. 

Clarke and the team got what they deserved out that match.

Your perspective is pretty negative if you think we/clarke are constantly lucky and don't deserve our victories. 

I am usually first on here to admit when we are lucky but Clarke overall hasn't relied on luck. He's been patient and has built up a strong foundation that makes us hard to beat meanwhile playing some decent football as well.

What's us getting a doing against Ireland got to with Clarke being lucky. 

Can't remember the Armenia sending off but if he deserved to be sent off then I don't see how that's luck.

We relied on Armstrong putting in a big performance to beat Armenia which is why he's in the squad. He's a good player who has been relatively successful in the epl and at Celtic. Clarke recognises this and picks him because he's a good player. A manager picks the players he thinks will perform and Clarke mostly gets it right with his player selection. 

 

[wanderer]

31 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

We were the better team against Serbia. They didn't look like scoring the whole match whereas we created plenty of chances.

Serbia were lucky that it went to extra time and penalties. 

Clarke and the team got what they deserved out that match.

Serbia had clearly done their home work that in the last 5 minutes we would bring on McBurnie, and he would be instructed to try waste time with the ball down at the corner flag, as no wonder they put men on him straight away and as soon as one of them got the ball it was straight up the park, where they got a resulting corner kick as a result.

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

We were the better team against Serbia. They didn't look like scoring the whole match whereas we created plenty of chances.

Serbia were lucky that it went to extra time and penalties. 

Clarke and the team got what they deserved out that match.

Your perspective is pretty negative if you think we/clarke are constantly lucky and don't deserve our victories. 

I am usually first on here to admit when we are lucky but Clarke overall hasn't relied on luck. He's been patient and has built up a strong foundation that makes us hard to beat meanwhile playing some decent football as well.

What's us getting a doing against Ireland got to with Clarke being lucky. 

Can't remember the Armenia sending off but if he deserved to be sent off then I don't see how that's luck.

We relied on Armstrong putting in a big performance to beat Armenia which is why he's in the squad. He's a good player who has been relatively successful in the epl and at Celtic. Clarke recognises this and picks him because he's a good player. A manager picks the players he thinks will perform and Clarke mostly gets it right with his player selection. 

 

Spot on.

[BryanBlessed]

I wouldn't say we were lucky in the campaign but up until the disallowed McTominay goal (which had to be disallowed once he looked at VAR) everything went for us.  I'll take that as there have been times when nothing has gone for us. Don't get me wrong, we outplayed Spain, beat the teams we should beat (until we qualified at least) but the Norway result wasn't really a reflection of the game. Plus, you need luck to do well in any tournament.

It should also be noted that Clarke's had better players at his disposal than any manager has had since the early 90's. That obviously makes a massive difference and if you look at how we played up until and including the last Euros, it's clear that Clarke is no genius. Would he have done better than previous managers given the players they had to work with? I'm not so sure.

It's often been mooted that you could take an English championship side and put them in an international tournament and they'd do pretty well because they're training and playing together all year.  Clarke's main achievement has been creating that club atmosphere and it also probably explains his loyalty to certain players and reluctance to bring many new members into the squad.

 

[killiefaetheferry]

I still think he'll bring Doak into the squad. I get that the guy is still developing but now at 18, with more appearances than Bobb, who are we to ignore raw talent like that? Lots of our goals have come from scrappy second balls after Dykes or whoever has created a bit of chaos. Not from high balls, but Doak can take the ball and spin well, run the channels, drive at defenders. At the very least he'll get us up the pitch with direct running, holding the ball for 9-10 seconds to allow the whole team to advance. It's what Clarke had Jordan Jones do for Killie and it was very effective, even if Jones didn't have much in the way of end product.

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, BryanBlessed said:

I wouldn't say we were lucky in the campaign but up until the disallowed McTominay goal (which had to be disallowed once he looked at VAR) everything went for us.  I'll take that as there have been times when nothing has gone for us. Don't get me wrong, we outplayed Spain, beat the teams we should beat (until we qualified at least) but the Norway result wasn't really a reflection of the game. Plus, you need luck to do well in any tournament.

It should also be noted that Clarke's had better players at his disposal than any manager has had since the early 90's. That obviously makes a massive difference and if you look at how we played up until and including the last Euros, it's clear that Clarke is no genius. Would he have done better than previous managers given the players they had to work with? I'm not so sure.

It's often been mooted that you could take an English championship side and put them in an international tournament and they'd do pretty well because they're training and playing together all year.  Clarke's main achievement has been creating that club atmosphere and it also probably explains his loyalty to certain players and reluctance to bring many new members into the squad.

 

What went for us? I don't remember any dodgy decisions that we got.  We also got slightly fucked over with the Norway pen as well although they maybe deserved it based on an earlier incident. 

The Norway away win is the only bit of luck we got imo and even then it wasn't from dodgy decisions or the ref giving us favours. We snatched a victory from the jaws of defeat with a bit of luck and well worked goal and that can sometimes happen in football.

I also think it's a slight myth that Clarke has significantly better players. We quite often line up with three guys who play English championship. Dykes isn't even a particularly great striker at that level either. I think our teams that lined up 15 years ago were not that much weaker. Miller was a better striker on paper than dykes. You had midfielders like Ferguson, brown and fletcher. David Weir was a better centre back than anything we have now and a young Craig Gordon was probably better than Angus Gunn. Hutton at that time was arguably better than hickey and Patterson although I think those two might end up being better eventually. Then you had the likes of Naismith, Maloney and mcfadden. Those three would make our squads today.

That squad wasnt far behind today's squad imo.

If the current team were struggling under Clarke then the excuses of not having quality players would come flooding out. I remember making those excuses for Clarke after the euros and our poor start to the world cup campaign. I was vocal on here about how we relied on championship and spl players like dykes, McKenna, marshall etc and how Clarke can only make do with what is available.

Clarke is the main reason we are doing well imo, our squad isn't better on paper than Norway's yet we have totally destroyed them in this group. Serbia were probably slightly stronger than us on paper yet we dominated them away from home and qualified. 

Ukraine are probably equal to us in squad strength and we managed to beat them and win our nations league group.

I don't think any English championship sides would consistently do well in the euros or world cup except the ones that get promoted to the epl. Northern Ireland did well in 2016 with alot of English championship players but I can't think of many sides with such a poor squad getting out of the groups in a tournament.

Northern Ireland and Iceland are the only countries I can think of that have achieved success in modern times with really weak squads. Maybe theres one or two others but it's still a rarity for squads like that to achieve anything.

[todd]

On 11/24/2023 at 1:48 PM, wanderer said:

I think Ryan Porteous helped him a lot more than the ref when he tugged at his shirt.......

What was dodgy in Seville?

Its been proven that we had a player in a off side position when we scored.

No idea where you are scraping the under side of the barrel for some big conspiracy that is simply not there.....

Proven? Has it really? Depends which cartoon graphic you go by.  Besides, apparently it was a foul at first, fuckin farce of a decision 🙄 

Not that I'm letting it eat away at me or anything mind 😁

Edited November 25, 2023 by todd

[BryanBlessed]

On 11/25/2023 at 10:54 AM, mccaughey85 said:

What went for us? I don't remember any dodgy decisions that we got.  We also got slightly fucked over with the Norway pen as well although they maybe deserved it based on an earlier incident. 

The Norway away win is the only bit of luck we got imo and even then it wasn't from dodgy decisions or the ref giving us favours. We snatched a victory from the jaws of defeat with a bit of luck and well worked goal and that can sometimes happen in football.

I also think it's a slight myth that Clarke has significantly better players. We quite often line up with three guys who play English championship. Dykes isn't even a particularly great striker at that level either. I think our teams that lined up 15 years ago were not that much weaker. Miller was a better striker on paper than dykes. You had midfielders like Ferguson, brown and fletcher. David Weir was a better centre back than anything we have now and a young Craig Gordon was probably better than Angus Gunn. Hutton at that time was arguably better than hickey and Patterson although I think those two might end up being better eventually. Then you had the likes of Naismith, Maloney and mcfadden. Those three would make our squads today.

That squad wasnt far behind today's squad imo.

If the current team were struggling under Clarke then the excuses of not having quality players would come flooding out. I remember making those excuses for Clarke after the euros and our poor start to the world cup campaign. I was vocal on here about how we relied on championship and spl players like dykes, McKenna, marshall etc and how Clarke can only make do with what is available.

Clarke is the main reason we are doing well imo, our squad isn't better on paper than Norway's yet we have totally destroyed them in this group. Serbia were probably slightly stronger than us on paper yet we dominated them away from home and qualified. 

Ukraine are probably equal to us in squad strength and we managed to beat them and win our nations league group.

I don't think any English championship sides would consistently do well in the euros or world cup except the ones that get promoted to the epl. Northern Ireland did well in 2016 with alot of English championship players but I can't think of many sides with such a poor squad getting out of the groups in a tournament.

Northern Ireland and Iceland are the only countries I can think of that have achieved success in modern times with really weak squads. Maybe theres one or two others but it's still a rarity for squads like that to achieve anything.

What went for us? The Porro slip at Hampden that let Andy Robertson get past him and quite a few close calls up until the second half of that game. Robertson was also lucky not to be shown a red. The moment of madness from Ostigard that let Dykes in.

 

Yeah, Miller probably was a better striker than Dykes but Dykes suits the way we play for now. I'd like an upgrade but it doesn't look like that'll happen.  I'll give you Fletcher but I don't think Brown and Ferguson would be an upgrade on anything we have right now. Hickey is already a better player than Hutton but I'd take Hutton over Patterson. We've had noone nearly as good as Robertson, Hickey and Tierney for years. Not convinced David Weir was really any better than what we've got now.

 

 

I didn't mean championship-level players. I meant the fact that the team would be training together and playing together all year.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

40 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

What went for us? The Porro slip at Hampden that let Andy Robertson get past him and quite a few close calls up until the second half of that game. Robertson was also lucky not to be shown a red. The moment of madness from Ostigard that let Dykes in.

Well Porro's slip was nowhere near as unlucky as Hickey's which gifted their second goal. Hickey had no other player within 5 yards of him whereas Robertson was hounding Porro and you could say he forced the slip.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

What went for us? The Porro slip at Hampden that let Andy Robertson get past him and quite a few close calls up until the second half of that game. Robertson was also lucky not to be shown a red. The moment of madness from Ostigard that let Dykes in.

 

Yeah, Miller probably was a better striker than Dykes but Dykes suits the way we play for now. I'd like an upgrade but it doesn't look like that'll happen.  I'll give you Fletcher but I don't think Brown and Ferguson would be an upgrade on anything we have right now. Hickey is already a better player than Hutton but I'd take Hutton over Patterson. We've had noone nearly as good as Robertson, Hickey and Tierney for years. Not convinced David Weir was really any better than what we've got now.

 

 

I didn't mean championship-level players. I meant the fact that the team would be training together and playing together all year.

 

I think your clutching at straws. These things happen in football. Lots of countries benefit from slips or defensive errors. 

Every country gets lucky moments but overall we have deserved everything we got from the campaign. 

Perhaps we should look at what went against us like the Georgia and Norway penalties. Not sure either were penalties. Mctominays goal v Spain that was chalked off. 

The point I was making with the squad comparisons was that our current squad isn't that far ahead of what we have now. 

Darren Fletcher was a regular for a great man utd side. I reckon brown and Ferguson were similar level to McGregor and gilmour although I think gilmour could be better in the future. The main point is that overall our midfield options today isn't a world away from that 2008 squad. I would say our midfielders today have more goals in them which is probably the big difference between the 2.

David Weir was easily a cut above anything we have today. He was a epl regular for years and played in a decent rangers team that reached a European final. 

Not sure hickey is currently better than Hutton, I think he might eventually be better with time but Hutton was seriously gifted as a full back and he pretty much pissed his career down the pan. When he was at rangers he was brilliant and could easily have had a better career than what he had.

I would argue that Darren Fletcher was up there with robbo and Tierney and he was a long way better than hickey currently is.

If you factor in we had Naismith and mcfadden doing quite well at Everton and Maloney who was Celtics best player then that squad wasn't too far behind overall.

Clarkes the main reason we get results and what hes built is pretty impressive considering our squad limitations. 

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

What went for us? The Porro slip at Hampden that let Andy Robertson get past him and quite a few close calls up until the second half of that game. Robertson was also lucky not to be shown a red. The moment of madness from Ostigard that let Dykes in.

 

Yeah, Miller probably was a better striker than Dykes but Dykes suits the way we play for now. I'd like an upgrade but it doesn't look like that'll happen.  I'll give you Fletcher but I don't think Brown and Ferguson would be an upgrade on anything we have right now. Hickey is already a better player than Hutton but I'd take Hutton over Patterson. We've had noone nearly as good as Robertson, Hickey and Tierney for years. Not convinced David Weir was really any better than what we've got now.

 

 

I didn't mean championship-level players. I meant the fact that the team would be training together and playing together all year.

 

Had a look at our 2014 match day squad that played Poland and I would argue it's similar in standard to todays squad. 

Theres about 10/11 epl regulars in there and about 2 or 3 star Celtic and rangers players. Probably better strikers on paper in Griffith's, fletcher, McCormack and Naismith. Midfielders are scott brown, charlie adams, Darren Fletcher. You have defenders and full backs like Bardsley, Hutton and Russel Martin who all played epl on and off. Andy Robertson comes off the bench. James Morrison was a good epl player as well. 

Even the likes of Ross McCormack Barry bannan and ikechi Anya were good players even though they were in the English championship.

It's not exactly a world away from what we have now imo.

Right now we have about 11/12 regular epl/top league players and the rest play English championship or spl.

The difference is good management and a system that suits the players.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Had a look at our 2014 match day squad that played Poland and I would argue it's similar in standard to todays squad. 

Theres about 10/11 epl regulars in there and about 2 or 3 star Celtic and rangers players. Probably better strikers on paper in Griffith's, fletcher, McCormack and Naismith. Midfielders are scott brown, charlie adams, Darren Fletcher. You have defenders and full backs like Bardsley, Hutton and Russel Martin who all played epl on and off. Andy Robertson comes off the bench. James Morrison was a good epl player as well. 

Even the likes of Ross McCormack Barry bannan and ikechi Anya were good players even though they were in the English championship.

It's not exactly a world away from what we have now imo.

Right now we have about 11/12 regular epl/top league players and the rest play English championship or spl.

The difference is good management and a system that suits the players.

You are missing telling points. This squad has midfielders that score goals in McTominay and McGinn. Ferguson, Fletcher and Brown's goals return was paltry. McGinn stands above everyone in the two squads who is destined to do what only four Scots have ever done for us - score 20 goals and that from midfield too. Robertson/Tierney/Hickey too are way above the options we had available on the flanks in our defence. From that squad back then I would take Miller and McFadden to beef up our striking options as both were prollific by Scotland standards. 

In short:-

Goalkeeping options better in 2007.

Wide defensive options much better today. Central defensive options about even I would say.

Midfield options better with current squad for strength in depth.

Strikers better in 2007.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think your clutching at straws. These things happen in football. Lots of countries benefit from slips or defensive errors. 

Every country gets lucky moments but overall we have deserved everything we got from the campaign. 

Perhaps we should look at what went against us like the Georgia and Norway penalties. Not sure either were penalties. Mctominays goal v Spain that was chalked off. 

The point I was making with the squad comparisons was that our current squad isn't that far ahead of what we have now. 

Darren Fletcher was a regular for a great man utd side. I reckon brown and Ferguson were similar level to McGregor and gilmour although I think gilmour could be better in the future. The main point is that overall our midfield options today isn't a world away from that 2008 squad. I would say our midfielders today have more goals in them which is probably the big difference between the 2.

David Weir was easily a cut above anything we have today. He was a epl regular for years and played in a decent rangers team that reached a European final. 

Not sure hickey is currently better than Hutton, I think he might eventually be better with time but Hutton was seriously gifted as a full back and he pretty much pissed his career down the pan. When he was at rangers he was brilliant and could easily have had a better career than what he had.

I would argue that Darren Fletcher was up there with robbo and Tierney and he was a long way better than hickey currently is.

If you factor in we had Naismith and mcfadden doing quite well at Everton and Maloney who was Celtics best player then that squad wasn't too far behind overall.

Clarkes the main reason we get results and what hes built is pretty impressive considering our squad limitations. 

I dont think our squad is much better now than in 2008 however the main difference is the formation and style that Clarke has implemented. 

In 2008 we setup to be hard to beat, hit on the counter and score from set pieces. That helped us against the likes of Italy and France but was a major crutch when playing lower seeded teams. 

Purely as players both Ferguson and Brown were light years ahead of McGregor and dare I say it probably McGinn however Clarke has found a role for McGinn that plays to his strengths and others cover for his weaknesses. If McGinn was still playing in the 1st bank of 2 (ie where McGreggor and Gilmour play then he would have very mixed fortunes with Scotland as per alot of his initial caps. 

Credit to Clarke and McGinn though, he is now a huge player for us and now plays in a similar position for Villa.

I think Hickey will go onto become our best modern era defender. Defensively he is solid, comfortable with both feet. He just needs to work on attacking side of game and a top top club will snap him up.

 

 

[mccaughey85]

50 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You are missing telling points. This squad has midfielders that score goals in McTominay and McGinn. Ferguson, Fletcher and Brown's goals return was paltry. McGinn stands above everyone in the two squads who is destined to do what only four Scots have ever done for us - score 20 goals and that from midfield too. Robertson/Tierney/Hickey too are way above the options we had available on the flanks in our defence. From that squad back then I would take Miller and McFadden to beef up our striking options as both were prollific by Scotland standards. 

In short:-

Goalkeeping options better in 2007.

Wide defensive options much better today. Central defensive options about even I would say.

Midfield options better with current squad for strength in depth.

Strikers better in 2007.

 

I already made the point about our midfielders scoring more goals in a previous post.

That's probably the main difference between the 2 squads and maybe better full backs.

Other than that I think you are more or less agreeing with me? 

[mccaughey85]

42 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont think our squad is much better now than in 2008 however the main difference is the formation and style that Clarke has implemented. 

In 2008 we setup to be hard to beat, hit on the counter and score from set pieces. That helped us against the likes of Italy and France but was a major crutch when playing lower seeded teams. 

Purely as players both Ferguson and Brown were light years ahead of McGregor and dare I say it probably McGinn however Clarke has found a role for McGinn that plays to his strengths and others cover for his weaknesses. If McGinn was still playing in the 1st bank of 2 (ie where McGreggor and Gilmour play then he would have very mixed fortunes with Scotland as per alot of his initial caps. 

Credit to Clarke and McGinn though, he is now a huge player for us and now plays in a similar position for Villa.

I think Hickey will go onto become our best modern era defender. Defensively he is solid, comfortable with both feet. He just needs to work on attacking side of game and a top top club will snap him up.

 

 

Brown and Ferguson were not light years ahead of McGregor and mcginn.

They are probably on a par, I would say maybe mcginn is slightly better than all three.

They were all mid table epl players imo with mcginn maybe good enough for a top 6 club.

You think hickey will surpass Robertsons achievements? I think that could be tough. 

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I already made the point about our midfielders scoring more goals in a previous post.

That's probably the main difference between the 2 squads and maybe better full backs.

Other than that I think you are more or less agreeing with me? 

Sorry missed the earlier post.

Also this squad has a better mentality. A mentality that can turn around matches and has a better understanding and longevity. Once McLeish left the 2007/08 squad''s results and performances fell right off. The current squad has been on a very good run of results for two or three years now and have achieved qualification twice.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Brown and Ferguson were not light years ahead of McGregor and mcginn.

They are probably on a par, I would say maybe mcginn is slightly better than all three.

They were all mid table epl players imo with mcginn maybe good enough for a top 6 club.

You think hickey will surpass Robertsons achievements? I think that could be tough. 

McGinn is way above Brown and Ferguson in terms of importance to the side, all-round game, goalscoring and standing in the game. Brown never left the safety net of Celtic neither has McGregor. Ferguson never made it big time in the EPL whereas McGinn is skipper and influential player in a high-flying Aston Villa side.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[mccaughey85]

12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McGinn is way above Brown and Ferguson in terms of importance to the side, all-round game, goalscoring and standing in the game. Brown never left the safety net of Celtic neither has McGregor. Ferguson never made it big time in the EPL whereas McGinn is skipper and influential player in a high-flying Aston Villa side.

I would say in terms of Scotland performances mcginn is head and shoulders above all three.

In terms of club careers I would say all four are about the same. Maybe mcginn might edge it slightly especially if he continues his club form over the next couple of years.  I think it's slightly unfair to brown and McGregor to downgrade their careers just because they stayed loyal to Celtic. I think both could have easily played for a mid table epl side in the same way mcginn has. James mccarthur did and he was nothing special.

Ferguson was a good player as well who was unlucky with a leg break at Blackburn. He was a key player in rangers teams that were stronger than most epl sides at the time. Especially in the early 00s.

[Orraloon]

20 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Brown never left the safety net of Celtic neither has McGregor. 

That has got nothing to do with their abilities as football players. 

[Caledonian Craig]

28 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

That has got nothing to do with their abilities as football players. 

True it doesn't but it does say no big EPL clubs rated him enough to put a big bid on the table for him so he remained a big fish in a small pond. McGregor looks like he will remain too. Brown and McGregor are assured of their status as Celtic legends but they passed up that chance of career progression. By that Iean a chance to test yourself in a stronger league against stronger sides.

[Diamond Scot]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Brown and Ferguson were not light years ahead of McGregor and mcginn.

They are probably on a par, I would say maybe mcginn is slightly better than all three.

They were all mid table epl players imo with mcginn maybe good enough for a top 6 club.

You think hickey will surpass Robertsons achievements? I think that could be tough. 

Brown was better than McGreggor. I think you would struggle to find a Celtic fan who would disagree. McGreggor is a very tidy player but Brown raised the game of others around him and was a very good player himself. Similar to Roy Keane but obviously not at the same level.

Ferguson was a brilliant midfielder who was only held back by his inability to move away from Glasgow. If Ferguson had real ambition he could have easily have played for a top 6 club.

I think Hickey will win more than Robertson and also be regarded as a better player when they both retire. If you look at Hickeys physique he is very similar to Bale at the same age. I think he will add a few yards of pace to his game and as I say it wouldnt surprise me if he signed for a Man City / Bayern Munich standard.

[mccaughey85]

48 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Brown was better than McGreggor. I think you would struggle to find a Celtic fan who would disagree. McGreggor is a very tidy player but Brown raised the game of others around him and was a very good player himself. Similar to Roy Keane but obviously not at the same level.

Ferguson was a brilliant midfielder who was only held back by his inability to move away from Glasgow. If Ferguson had real ambition he could have easily have played for a top 6 club.

I think Hickey will win more than Robertson and also be regarded as a better player when they both retire. If you look at Hickeys physique he is very similar to Bale at the same age. I think he will add a few yards of pace to his game and as I say it wouldnt surprise me if he signed for a Man City / Bayern Munich standard.

Yeh but is there a massive gulf in class between the three players? I wouldnt say so. They are all similar level imo. 

Not sure Ferguson was good enough for a top 6 side. If he was then a better team than Blackburn would have signed him.

As much as I like hickey, I am still unsure wether he makes it at a big club. It's also a big prediction that he will win more than robbo. Gotta remember that robbo is top of the epl assist table for full backs as well. He's considered one of the best full backs in the world. Hickeys career will have to be amazing if he's gunna match Robertsons who still has 4 or 5 years at the top competing for trophies.

[Diamond Scot]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh but is there a massive gulf in class between the three players? I wouldnt say so. They are all similar level imo. 

Not sure Ferguson was good enough for a top 6 side. If he was then a better team than Blackburn would have signed him.

As much as I like hickey, I am still unsure wether he makes it at a big club. It's also a big prediction that he will win more than robbo. Gotta remember that robbo is top of the epl assist table for full backs as well. He's considered one of the best full backs in the world. Hickeys career will have to be amazing if he's gunna match Robertsons who still has 4 or 5 years at the top competing for trophies.

I dont think theres a massive gap between the players but I still think talent wise Ferguson was a good bit better. Especially when he broke through. Im pretty sure he won Blackburns player of the year when he was there and that was him with his heart not in it. Ultimately he is another wasted talent so I suppose if you are factoring in mentality McGinn is better.

I know its a bold claim about Hickey, he wont get anywhere near the assists but thats not really his game. This comment has to be taken in context but Robertson hasnt actually won a huge amount of trophys. He has basically won every big trophy once.

Is it stretching the imagination to say that Hickey might win a couple of prem / top 4 league titles and a champions league with a few domestic cups?