SNP leadership election

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-human-torpedo/

But secondly, Humza Yousaf’s comments completely blow the entire foundation of the Gender Recognition Reform bill out of the water, and would be thrown back in his face by the UK government were he to become First Minister and then be so foolish as to challenge the UK’s Section 35 blocking of the bill in court.

Because under the terms of the GRR, neither Humza Yousaf nor anyone else has the right to declare that Isla Bryson is “at it”, or that he’s “not a real transwoman”.

Yes, it’s all about the GRR bill.

[PapofGlencoe]

55 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Are you sure that is part of the GRR bill?

If the GRR Scotland de-medicalises the process which I believe was a key part of the pitch does it becomes self declared ID?  I think that's the debatable point and got Nicola into a fankle.

..

 

29 pages later..😃

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, PapofGlencoe said:

If the GRR Scotland de-medicalises the process which I believe was a key part of the pitch does it becomes self declared ID?  I think that's the debatable point and got Nicola into a fankle.

..

 

29 pages later..😃

How does the GRR bill stop Humza saying "Isla Bryson is at it, and not a real transwoman", though?

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

How does the GRR bill stop Humza saying "Isla Bryson is at it, and not a real transwoman", though?

It doesn’t, wings is a cunt

[Ally Bongo]

[Ally Bongo]

12 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

How does the GRR bill stop Humza saying "Isla Bryson is at it, and not a real transwoman", though?

The entire point of self-ID, as legislated by the bill and as the term suggests, is that nobody else gets a say in the matter. If Bryson or anyone else SAYS they’re a woman, they ARE one, and disputing that is – under the Hate Crime Bill forced into law by none other than Humza Yousaf – a criminal offence.

[Orraloon]

Just now, aaid said:

It doesn’t, wings is a cunt

Exactly. The GRR Bill says nothing about that.

And, some folk are still trying to pretend that the GRR Scotland Bill has already been passed into law. It obviously hasn't and the law is still the same as it was this time last year. The Isla Bryson thing has got fuk all to do with the GRR Bill, and these people know it. He has managed to persuade enough useful idiots to go along with him though.

[Orraloon]

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The entire point of self-ID, as legislated by the bill and as the term suggests, is that nobody else gets a say in the matter. If Bryson or anyone else SAYS they’re a woman, they ARE one, and disputing that is – under the Hate Crime Bill forced into law by none other than Humza Yousaf – a criminal offence.

So, it's the Hate Crime Bill you have a problem with, then? Fair enough.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Orraloon

[aaid]

17 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The entire point of self-ID, as legislated by the bill and as the term suggests, is that nobody else gets a say in the matter. If Bryson or anyone else SAYS they’re a woman, they ARE one, and disputing that is – under the Hate Crime Bill forced into law by none other than Humza Yousaf – a criminal offence.

You do know that the Hate Crime bill isn’t in force yet - is that another lie from Wings that you’ve swallowed?

[PapofGlencoe]

seems to me those claiming GRR caused Isla Bryson and those claiming all GRR does is let people get birth and death ceificates are both misleading the public.

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, phart said:

Lizz Trust was all the "Free market" "Libertarians" "Game-theory" bro's policies acted out at once and the very markets they loved tanked them out.

I've not paid much attention to the race so my uneducated thoughts are Humza is same sort of course candidate, Kate is more fiscal and social conservative, we've seen one budget from her and gives a wee hint into her thinking. We have a parliament so her personal views are tempered by the mechanisms of that.

Regan is more the Truss candidate got radical ideas which might crash violently with reality if she get's a chance to enact them.

My general thoughts are apathy to them. None are going to last long, this is a transition leader. However it's not like i've been studying the situation closely so there's probably an even bigger chance i'm havering pish. I've found a good thread to do so though.

I agree with this. ( not the pish part 🙂) And the fact an MSP has told me they also feel it will be an transition leader adds even more weight. 

I really wanted to vote for Ash Regan as my only goal is independence and I feel she is the only one who really comes over with that as their main objective . But she is nowhere near ready , this is not going to be a job for someone to learn as they go along.    The best we can hope for is that someone steadies the ship IMO and I think Kate Forbes is the only likely candidate. 

[TDYER63]

Had hoped we had moved on from GRR 🙁

[PapofGlencoe]

24 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

While I don't think Peter Murrell should be the CEO, I don't like this inference that he's going to be stuffing fake votes for a preferred candidate. It's zoomer stuff.

The fact he's on more than £120k is what calls to question the integrity in my eyes.  It's not an NHS trust he's leading.  He's the admin of a political party, whose fortunes are not based on his actions but by the politicians.  I think it's a disgrace quite frankly..

 

[hampden_loon2878]

28 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The entire point of self-ID, as legislated by the bill and as the term suggests, is that nobody else gets a say in the matter. If Bryson or anyone else SAYS they’re a woman, they ARE one, and disputing that is – under the Hate Crime Bill forced into law by none other than Humza Yousaf – a criminal offence.

Correct, everyone else is branded bigots 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Had hoped we had moved on from GRR 🙁

It’s all about the GRR bill for some people.  

 

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

seems to me those claiming GRR caused Isla Bryson and those claiming all GRR does is let people get birth and death ceificates are both misleading the public.

You’re mistaken. Your original birth certificate cannot be changed.  All the GRR bill does is to make it easier to obtain a GRC which then allows your acquired gender to be that which is recorded on your death certificate.

[Ally Bongo]

34 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

So, it's the Hate Crime Bill you have a problem with, then? Fair enough.

 

19 minutes ago, aaid said:

You do know that the Hate Crime bill isn’t in force yet - is that another lie from Wings that you’ve swallowed?

It means absolutely nothing to me

The point is that Humza is going to take on Westminster to fight them blocking it

                                       And

If after millions of pounds spent fighting it , The SG under Humza somehow wins and it becomes law,  then it would be illegal to call Isla Bryson a man

Is Wings wrong ?

[Orraloon]

 

21 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

seems to me those claiming GRR caused Isla Bryson and those claiming all GRR does is let people get birth and death ceificates are both misleading the public.

Who is claiming that?

I know this might sound patronising, but it would seem that it needs to be repeated over, and over again. The GRR Scotland Bill has not been enacted yet.

And it probably never will be.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Orraloon

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Is Wings wrong ?

Yes 

[hampden_loon2878]

4 hours ago, Orraloon said:

He can't possibly do the same damage that she did. He (or any other First Minister) doesn't have the power to inflict that amount of damage. 

Yes the damage caused would be far less but I was more getting to the point that the members may vote in someone who everyone on the outside realise is an incompetent idiot 

[Orraloon]

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

 

Is Wings wrong ?

Yes.

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes the damage caused would be far less but I was more getting to the point that the members may vote in someone who everyone on the outside realise is an incompetent idiot 

At least half the population will think that, no matter who wins. 

[Alibi]

12 minutes ago, aaid said:

You’re mistaken. Your original birth certificate cannot be changed.  All the GRR bill does is to make it easier to obtain a GRC which then allows your acquired gender to be that which is recorded on your death certificate.

I don't think that is really a point of great contention.  A simplification of an administrative process to make life simpler for a few people is not something that should get anyone kicking up a fuss.  The problem areas are the self ID nonsense and in particular the ridiculous assertion that anyone can actually change sex just by saying they want to.  If folk want to live life as if they were the opposite sex, let them do so and good luck to them.  However to claim that they actually ARE the opposite sex is ludicrous.  Humans cannot actually change sex, and the bill should have been designed and/or modified to acknowledge that.  As for self ID, that should have been qualified to require some form of gatekeeping that would prevent Isla Bryson situations occurring, no matter under which law they occurred. however NS was having none of that common sense on her watch - her personal obsession.

[Alibi]

20 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

It means absolutely nothing to me

The point is that Humza is going to take on Westminster to fight them blocking it

                                       And

If after millions of pounds spent fighting it , The SG under Humza somehow wins and it becomes law,  then it would be illegal to call Isla Bryson a man

Is Wings wrong ?

Wings has generally been on the button. That's why so many people turned on him when he started posting stuff they didn't like.

[aaid]

Let me attempt to explain why Wings is wrong.

When a bill is passed, particularly one which introduces a new criminal offence, it does not come into force immediately.  There is then a body of work which needs to be carried out by the Crown Office, Police and any other appropriate authorities to actually put the flesh on the bones of the bill.   That will include things like, what sort of behaviour will be covered by the bill and what won’t, sentences, exceptions, etc., etc.

The Hate Crime bill has not been enacted yet and indications are that it won’t be until at least next year.  I suspect that is in part because there’s probably a lot of work to do and recent history has shown how difficult it has become to get law onto the statute books and enacted.   I think this is what Sturgeon was alluding to when she resigned.

Since the bill has not been enacted and since that guidance has not been completed Wings is wrong to state that Humza Yousaf’s claim that Isla Bryson is “at it” would be automatically be considered a crime.   We’ll leave to one side that it definitely isn’t a crime at the moment.

The bill doesn’t go into detail about what exactly constitutes a hate crime.   It includes transgender as one of the impacted categories, it also says that simply discussing transgender issues would not fall within the scope of the law.  There are also freedom of expression exemptions included.

It is very very unlikely that Humza Yousaf or indeed anyone, who claimed that Isla Bryson was “at it” would be prosecuted and here is why.  One of the amendments to the GRR Bill is that Police Scotland can apply for someone’s GRC application to be paused if they are awaiting prosecution for a sex crime.  According to Wings logic, that would mean the police would be prosecuted under the - yet to be enacted - Hate Crime Act.