Indyref 2 (2)

[phart]

18 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I can place a bet of any amount that polling and performance of the SNP will go up if KF  becomes leader of the SNP 

Yeah but the argument isn't polling numbers. The argument is getting a referendum with regards to circumstances. Indepenence support has been pretty much static with the+-3% error for ages. There is no avenue for a second referendum regardless who is in charge.

It's politically expedient for people who aren't in power to pretend there is to try and get into power.

[Hertsscot]

4 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Wonder if this will get the same coverage on TV and Radio as the Scottish Government ditching targets - not to mention cunts like Lumsden being doorstepped

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68863796

Chris Stark: Rishi Sunak has set us back, head of climate change watchdog says

Rishi Sunak has "set us back" on climate change and left the UK at risk of falling behind other countries, according to the head of a government watchdog, the Climate Change Committee.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC, Chris Stark said the prime minister had "clearly not made [climate change] as much of a priority as his predecessors".

 

Interesting context from the BBC who are not known for being particularly sympathetic to the SNP:

"Holyrood, parties were trying to outbid each other on how quickly the country could go, eventually settling on a pace far beyond what experts had planned for.

The Scottish Greens - who are now in government with the SNP - proposed aiming to cut emissions by a whopping 80% compared with the baseline year of 1990.

But parliament settled on 75% - still 5% more than recommended - and the Climate Change Bill was agreed by all parties except the Greens, who abstained."

Chris Stark who's the departing head of the CCC has stated that the 2030 target was unrealistic from the start. Iirc he's also said that the 2045 targets are still are liable to be met.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

What a load of shite in this report:-

https://www.gbnews.com/news/scotland-pro-union-demonstrators-rally-against-snp-new-referendum

[Ally Bongo]

 

[Toepoke]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

What a load of shite in this report:-

https://www.gbnews.com/news/scotland-pro-union-demonstrators-rally-against-snp-new-referendum

Could've ended the link at gbnews.com

 

[Caledonian Craig]

26 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Disgraceful. Well that does not do this justice.

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Odd choice of attack vehicle, looks more like a clueless driver.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

3 hours ago, phart said:

Yeah but the argument isn't polling numbers. The argument is getting a referendum with regards to circumstances. Indepenence support has been pretty much static with the+-3% error for ages. There is no avenue for a second referendum regardless who is in charge.

It's politically expedient for people who aren't in power to pretend there is to try and get into power.

Let’s be honest, a referendum is off the table for this parliament and the next, we are looking at the earliest 8years time in MHO. The vehicle for Independence has been taken over by a bunch of lunatics, we will need time to mend this then go from there 

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Let’s be honest, a referendum is off the table for this parliament and the next, we are looking at the earliest 8years time in MHO. The vehicle for Independence has been taken over by a bunch of lunatics, we will need time to mend this then go from there 

A referendum is off the table full stop. Regardless of who is in charge of the SNP or any independence-backing parties. The only way to another referendum is by Westminster agreeing to it and that is not going to happen. 

[Ally Bongo]

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

A referendum is off the table full stop. Regardless of who is in charge of the SNP or any independence-backing parties. The only way to another referendum is by Westminster agreeing to it and that is not going to happen. 

Correct

Everybody and the neighbour's dug knows this

The only way now is through the ballot box at every election there is or a violent uprising

The SNP lose credibility by not acknowledging that

[Caledonian Craig]

10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Correct

Everybody and the neighbour's dug knows this

The only way now is through the ballot box at every election there is or a violent uprising

The SNP lose credibility by not acknowledging that

Big election results will do much more good than bad though so strong SNP or any other independence supporting parties results in elections is far more preferable than not.

Edited April 20 by Caledonian Craig

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

The only way now is through the ballot box at every election there is

I think this is correct.

And even then 50%+1 at an election will only force Westminster to concede a proper legally binding indyref via section 30.

Sturgeon's defacto indyref plan was the right move. Incredibly frustrating that her own and the SNP's implosion has scuppered that.

[Ally Bongo]

[hampden_loon2878]

21 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The tip of the iceberg 

[Hertsscot]

9 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

The tip of the iceberg 

We'll see. Maybe there will be more but maybe not. 

[hampden_loon2878]

31 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

We'll see. Maybe there will be more but maybe not. 

Is there not a perjury investigation running alongside the embezzlement one? 

[Hertsscot]

20 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Is there not a perjury investigation running alongside the embezzlement one? 

Not sure. Who against?

[Ally Bongo]

I'm still waiting to hear what the plan is once the SNP take a hammering at the general election

Everyone hoping that a phoenix rises from the flames might be very disappointed

For a start there will need to be another leadership election if Humza resigns and the Sturgeon loyalists will not be happy about that meaning more civil war

Next you have what's left of the membership are those that actually voted Humza as leader who will be voting on the next leader

Then you have the SNP Holyrood mafia - they will be untouched by a General Election wipeout - and virtually all of them supported Humza

Shona Robison, Karen Adam, Christina McKelvie, Shirley Ann Somerville etc etc

Forbes might not win again

Then you have the 20-30 MPs that are booted out at the GE - they become mainly non entities

 

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Next you have what's left of the membership are those that actually voted Humza as leader who will be voting on the next leader

 

not entirely true. I never voted for him. You have more influence being in the party than out it and pretty much the only reason i am still there. No point in people greetin that their choice of leader has not been elected again , when they have voluntarily cancelled the small part of control they had.  Sometimes you dont get your own way in life, but you at least need to be in it to win it. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

not entirely true. I never voted for him. You have more influence being in the party than out it and pretty much the only reason i am still there. No point in people greetin that their choice of leader has not been elected again , when they have voluntarily cancelled the small part of control they had.  Sometimes you dont get your own way in life, but you at least need to be in it to win it. 

It's good ideology however the thorny issue is that almost every branch has been infiltrated never mind the SNP NEC

Did any branch endorse Kate Forbes or Ash Regan, apart from their own constituences ?

Pissing against the wind would be easier

[Hertsscot]

3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I'm still waiting to hear what the plan is once the SNP take a hammering at the general election

I'm more optimistic and (maybe naively) still thinking 'if' the SNP take a hammering rather than 'when'. It's a possibility but it's by no means inevitable.

Starmer is not liked, Labour are basically Tory-lite and Scots know they have let Scotland down so badly, so many times in the past. The Tories have been an absolute disaster. The Lib Dems are a non-entity, once upon a time you might vote for them if you wanted to rejoin the EU but not now.

The big challenge for the SNP is to inspire people and get the vote out, and there's obviously work to be done. The way I view it is that the GE is basically a massive opinion poll. Even if the SNP won every Scottish seat they still won't hold sway and none of their policies are ever going to be enacted by a Westminster Government but  if Unionist parties gain seats it will undoubtedly be used against the cause of Scottish independence.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm more optimistic and (maybe naively) still thinking 'if' the SNP take a hammering rather than 'when'. It's a possibility but it's by no means inevitable.

Starmer is not liked, Labour are basically Tory-lite and Scots know they have let Scotland down so badly, so many times in the past. The Tories have been an absolute disaster. The Lib Dems are a non-entity, once upon a time you might vote for them if you wanted to rejoin the EU but not now.

The big challenge for the SNP is to inspire people and get the vote out, and there's obviously work to be done. The way I view it is that the GE is basically a massive opinion poll. Even if the SNP won every Scottish seat they still won't hold sway and none of their policies are ever going to be enacted by a Westminster Government but  if Unionist parties gain seats it will undoubtedly be used against the cause of Scottish independence.

Agreed.

I am hoping Scots are not duped into voting Labour by their promise it is the only way to get rid of the Tories. That is just utter BS. Labour could fail to win a seat in Scotland they'd still win a majority at Westminster.

[hampden_loon2878]

6 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I'm still waiting to hear what the plan is once the SNP take a hammering at the general election

Everyone hoping that a phoenix rises from the flames might be very disappointed

For a start there will need to be another leadership election if Humza resigns and the Sturgeon loyalists will not be happy about that meaning more civil war

Next you have what's left of the membership are those that actually voted Humza as leader who will be voting on the next leader

Then you have the SNP Holyrood mafia - they will be untouched by a General Election wipeout - and virtually all of them supported Humza

Shona Robison, Karen Adam, Christina McKelvie, Shirley Ann Somerville etc etc

Forbes might not win again

Then you have the 20-30 MPs that are booted out at the GE - they become mainly non entities

 

The plan is, stop being absolute idiots in government,, the snp could have went into hiding for 5 years and still won the holyrood elections. Once this election hammering happens, you will see all these msp’s doing all they can to save their jobs and that means voting in the most competent politicians the snp have 

[Ally Bongo]

23 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

The plan is, stop being absolute idiots in government,, the snp could have went into hiding for 5 years and still won the holyrood elections. Once this election hammering happens, you will see all these msp’s doing all they can to save their jobs and that means voting in the most competent politicians the snp have 

I see how that worked when it came to Yousaf or Forbes .... not to mention being warned what was likely to happen

They binned support for Forbes because of her objection to the GRR

And that will be their priority when the next leadership election happens because they have surrounded themselves with a wokerati team base

[StirlingEgg]

6 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Agreed.

I am hoping Scots are not duped into voting Labour by their promise it is the only way to get rid of the Tories. That is just utter BS. Labour could fail to win a seat in Scotland they'd still win a majority at Westminster.

That does need pointing out whenever the opportunity arises. It's dismissed a bit like hyperbole but just arithmetic re number of seats. Also how easily it could swing back to Tory in far less than a generation.