Indyref 2 (2)

[Toepoke]

4 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Saw one woman claim she voted Labour cos of the state of the NHS. Yet in Labour run Wales the NHS isn't as good as Scotland or Tory controlled England! It's difficult to know what to say except SNP need to be far better in countering a media that constantly portrays Scotland as the worst country on earth.

It's a constant catch 22 for the SNP. By definition they should be focusing on independence before governance, but being perceived as focusing on independence before governance is a vote loser.

 

[Ally Bongo]

47 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

It's a constant catch 22 for the SNP. By definition they should be focusing on independence before governance, but being perceived as focusing on independence before governance is a vote loser.

 

This is why they should be more agressive and attack negative headlines by constantly saying "This is part of better together" and "Things wont get any better without Independence so suck it up or vote differently" on all media all of the time.

This is why they need a more dynamic populist believable leader

[Hertsscot]

19 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

This is why they should be more agressive and attack negative headlines by constantly saying "This is part of better together" and "Things wont get any better without Independence so suck it up or vote differently" on all media all of the time.

This is why they need a more dynamic populist believable leader

It's annoying when people say things like voters aren't interested in constitutional matters but only worried about the day to day, inflation, cost of living crisis etc. We need to remind people that those issues are completely related. Take energy, major concern last winter, will be a major concern this winter and yet it's a reserved matter. If Scotland were independent we would have our own energy policy for our own needs and wouldn't be hamstrung by Westminster. 

Similar with cuts to council budgets, happening throughout the UK. So your local swimming pool is being added because we're stuck with a Government that has trashed the economy.

[Ally Bongo]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-day-of-the-jackals/

The parasite infestation within the SNP has sensed its moment has arrived.

[hampden_loon2878]

59 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-day-of-the-jackals/

The parasite infestation within the SNP has sensed its moment has arrived.

get those charlatans to fuck out of our party

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-day-of-the-jackals/

The parasite infestation within the SNP has sensed its moment has arrived.

Pro-Indy parties with a majority of seats and a manifesto pledge to seek a referendum should be not asking but demanding a referendum as a fundamental democratic right.

Failure by Westminster to allow that democratic right to happen should be met by the Parliamentary equivalent of guerilla warfare with walk outs, disruption of Commons business, active protest, MPs should be willing to break the law if necessary. No more playing by their rules.

Every single opportunity should be used to embarrass the UK Government and show to the world that democracy is being denied. The UK Government has no moral right to deny voters in Scotland the right to determine their own future.  MPs wouldn't be demanding independence, they'd simply be demanding the right to choose, and I think it would be difficult to argue against that.

Now is exactly the right time to 'go hard on independence' and if Marcus Carslaw wanted to be an SNP candidate for my constituency I'd be doing my utmost to make sure he wasn't selected.

[Ally Bongo]

Just now, Hertsscot said:

Pro-Indy parties with a majority of seats and a manifesto pledge to seek a referendum should be not asking but demanding a referendum as a fundamental democratic right.

Failure by Westminster to allow that democratic right to happen should be met by the Parliamentary equivalent of guerilla warfare with walk outs, disruption of Commons business, active protest, MPs should be willing to break the law if necessary. No more playing by their rules.

Every single opportunity should be used to embarrass the UK Government and show to the world that democracy is being denied. The UK Government has no moral right to deny voters in Scotland the right to determine their own future.  MPs wouldn't be demanding independence, they'd simply be demanding the right to choose, and I think it would be difficult to argue against that.

Now is exactly the right time to 'go hard on independence' and if Marcus Carslaw wanted to be an SNP candidate for my constituency I'd be doing my utmost to make sure he wasn't selected.

Agreed except the Perth Motion with support from Douglas Chapman replaces seats with votes

If the pro Indy parties win 50+1 % of the votes at any General Election then they give the UK Government 90 days to come to the table to negotiate Independence

If they say now is not the time then the Pro Indy MPs withdraw from Westminster and set up a Scottish Convention

[StirlingEgg]

4 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

It's annoying when people say things like voters aren't interested in constitutional matters but only worried about the day to day, inflation, cost of living crisis etc. We need to remind people that those issues are completely related. Take energy, major concern last winter, will be a major concern this winter and yet it's a reserved matter. If Scotland were independent we would have our own energy policy for our own needs and wouldn't be hamstrung by Westminster. 

Similar with cuts to council budgets, happening throughout the UK. So your local swimming pool is being added because we're stuck with a Government that has trashed the economy.

Yes, Labour are getting away with claiming cuts by WM are same as cuts by Holyrood. 

[Dave78]

12 hours ago, Toepoke said:

It's a constant catch 22 for the SNP. By definition they should be focusing on independence before governance, but being perceived as focusing on independence before governance is a vote loser.

 

It's the trap of devolution. Power devolved, power retained, and all that.

Not that i think the SNP supporting devolution was a mistake, still....

12 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

This is why they should be more agressive and attack negative headlines by constantly saying "This is part of better together" and "Things wont get any better without Independence so suck it up or vote differently" on all media all of the time.

This is why they need a more dynamic populist believable leader

Agree with that last point.

11 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-day-of-the-jackals/

The parasite infestation within the SNP has sensed its moment has arrived.

He's typical of the new indy-soft SNP.

Incidentally, @aaid, you said on here a while back that you only got interested in the SNP when Nicola became leader. Can i ask why was that?

Would i be wrong in suspecting it was to pursue your progressive politics on a post-Brexit UK level, rather than Scottish independence? 

[aaid]

6 hours ago, Dave78 said:

6 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Incidentally, @aaid, you said on here a while back that you only got interested in the SNP when Nicola became leader. Can i ask why was that?

Would i be wrong in suspecting it was to pursue your progressive politics on a post-Brexit UK level, rather than Scottish independence? 

That’s twisting my words a bit.  I only joined the SNP after the referendum, Nicola Sturgeon was either leader or leader to be, can’t really remember.  Prior to that, Loony Alba - which I was a member of - had a pretty incestuous relationship with London SNP, had common members, used to go to each others social functions and the like for a couple of decades, so I was moving in those circles anyway.   A mate of mine from those days became an MSP very briefly in 2007.  

My views on Independence haven’t really changed since I was around 16 or so, my introduction to politics was through the anti-nuclear movement and at that time I was speaking to people from both the Labour Party and the SNP who were all part of that.  I voted for the first time in the 1983 general election, voted Labour and continued to vote Labour at every election up to the 2001 general election.  I’ve never voted for since and would really struggle to vote for them again, even in a council election. 

[hampden_loon2878]

labor now over take the SNP in Holyrood polling, another prediction hat was laughed at 18 months ago when i said labour were the SNP'S biggest threat

[Ally Bongo]

One thing for sure is that things are not going to get better under Yousaf - only worse

He has to go - and go before the Conference

[CumbernauldJag]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

That’s twisting my words a bit.  I only joined the SNP after the referendum, Nicola Sturgeon was either leader or leader to be, can’t really remember.  Prior to that, Loony Alba - which I was a member of - had a pretty incestuous relationship with London SNP, had common members, used to go to each others social functions and the like for a couple of decades, so I was moving in those circles anyway.   A mate of mine from those days became an MSP very briefly in 2007.  

My views on Independence haven’t really changed since I was around 16 or so, my introduction to politics was through the anti-nuclear movement and at that time I was speaking to people from both the Labour Party and the SNP who were all part of that.  I voted for the first time in the 1983 general election, voted Labour and continued to vote Labour at every election up to the 2001 general election.  I’ve never voted for since and would really struggle to vote for them again, even in a council election. 

I'm more of a reader than a poster on these forums but the part where you say your views on independence haven't changed since you were 16 got my attention. Does that mean you don't support Scottish Independence? 

I struggle with the idea of supporting Scottish independence but voting for a unionist party. 

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

One thing for sure is that things are not going to get better under Yousaf - only worse

He has to go - and go before the Conference

That's next week, absolutely no chance!

 

[Ally Bongo]

19 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

That's next week, absolutely no chance!

 

It will just be a charade otherwise - where the NuSNP talk to each other about how great things will be from now on

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

labor now over take the SNP in Holyrood polling, another prediction hat was laughed at 18 months ago when i said labour were the SNP'S biggest threat

I don’t think you were alone on that, I have been concerned for a while about Labour , I certainly didn’t laugh at you. I am just surprised it has taken as long as it has . I think the SNP polled high during covid but since then its been shit. Some if it self inflicted but I also feel its been like trying to hold back a tidal wave of unionist media for years . Whether you like her or not NS was strong , a lot of women I know were supporting the SNP because of her, and I can assure you they are not woke loonballs. 

Humza couldn’t hold back a bathroom tap never mind a tidal wave. It’s inevitable this was going to happen.  I do not know how SNP members thought he was the right choice. 

[TDYER63]

21 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-day-of-the-jackals/

The parasite infestation within the SNP has sensed its moment has arrived.

How can they promote independence if they have to shut up about it for 5 years after every election whilst opposition is in ? Is that not just going to create lethargy to a dangerous level ? 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

One thing for sure is that things are not going to get better under Yousaf - only worse

He has to go - and go before the Conference

Alarm bells are ring everywhere in the snp constituencies, the woke mob are all fighting amongst themselves now, that roaster Josh mennie never passed vetting so has now fallen out with Karen Adam, thank god for small blessings,,, how the hell did the party end up like this 

[aaid]

54 minutes ago, CumbernauldJag said:

I'm more of a reader than a poster on these forums but the part where you say your views on independence haven't changed since you were 16 got my attention. Does that mean you don't support Scottish Independence? 

I struggle with the idea of supporting Scottish independence but voting for a unionist party. 

Well the first thing is that I was 16 in 1981 and the political landscape was very different then than it is now.   My view then was that the important thing was to get the Thatcher out, independence didn’t seem like it was something that was remotely achievable.  The 1980s were very grim politically- way worse than now IMHO.

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

How can they promote independence if they have to shut up about it for 5 years after every election whilst opposition is in ? Is that not just going to create lethargy to a dangerous level ? 

I’m not sure what his point is at all.

[Ally Bongo]

The first General Election i was allowed to vote in was 1987 - i was 19

Even then i knew Labour were corrupt as fuck and had that big a hegemony in Scotland that a monkey with a red rosette would get elected 

George wee mooth Robertson was my MP

I voted SNP then and have done ever since

[Ally Bongo]

Really good show in which you should give a listen

Tackles protecting trans rights without diluting women's rights

The alternatives to ousting Margaret Ferrier

The By election fall out

Women supporting Scotland United whilst the SNP are still pushing GRR

SNP infiltration

 

[Ally Bongo]

https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/10/09/why-did-the-activists-and-voters-stay-away/

 

[Hertsscot]

43 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/10/09/why-did-the-activists-and-voters-stay-away/

 

As an SNP member, I can't disagree with too much of that analysis. Humza called for a summer of activism but locally I've not seen much of a response.

I got the feeling that our local MP was glad to have company knocking on the doors. At most there were no more than three of us.

Humza called on SNP supporters to turn out for the BiS rally in Edinburgh back in September and it wasn't as well attended as AUOB marches I've been on.

Keith Brown emailed SNP members calling on a thousand of us to go round the doors, I suspect it got nowhere near that number.

These are just my observations but seem to back up the claims in the article.

[Caledonian Craig]

8 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

As an SNP member, I can't disagree with too much of that analysis. Humza called for a summer of activism but locally I've not seen much of a response.

I got the feeling that our local MP was glad to have company knocking on the doors. At most there were no more than three of us.

Humza called on SNP supporters to turn out for the BiS rally in Edinburgh back in September and it wasn't as well attended as AUOB marches I've been on.

Keith Brown emailed SNP members calling on a thousand of us to go round the doors, I suspect it got nowhere near that number.

These are just my observations but seem to back up the claims in the article.

The thing is when spirits are low it is hard to stir people to action. And there is no doubt SNP supporters/voters spirits are low just now for various obvious reasons. The Sturgeon debacle then an unpopular new FM being elected and topped with no forward momentum or seemingly no activity on the independence front will crush spirits.