Yr Alban Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, BryanBlessed said: Agreed. In the cold light of day, our qualification wasn't as impressive as it looks. Yes, we deserved to beat Spain (who basically gave up in the 2nd half) but, on another day, there's no slip or they score one of their chances (they came close a few times). Take out the silly mistake from Ostigard and we (deservedly) lose in Norway. As for Georgia, the game shouldn't have started and once they came back out, their heads were already gone. I think we would probably have still qualified without all the lucky circumstances but it would have been much closer. I would say that things certainly haven't gone for us in the last two games so maybe they will in the Euros. We had some lucky breaks, yes. But we also played really well in the majority of the games. You don’t beat Spain 2-0 by pure luck. We also didn’t look like slipping up in the games against the smaller sides. More celebrated Scotland teams toiled to beat Cyprus with 97th-minute goals. This team had the game won after half an hour. I think we were playing above ourselves though, and now we seem to have entirely forgotten how. We have 3 months to remember. Have to say I am not optimistic right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 13 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: In fairness not many countries would hang onto a manager after the string of results like that We will - failure is acceptable Lol come on now, he's gotten us to two tournaments, any country who hadn't qualified for a tournament for 20 years would be overjoyed by his success and wouldn't be looking to get rid over a few bad friendly results especially considering the opposition. Ppl never learn in here. Clarke will have ups and downs but it's mostly been good results under him and he has more than earned his right to guide us into the euros. Even if he completely fucks it up in Germany he will still have deserved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 13 hours ago, kumnio said: He should have been sacked after Dublin, Id guess thats when I started this thread. He won't be sacked now, even after a run of 7 games without a win, during which we have played Spain, England, France & Netherlands. Personally think that the Georgia away and Norway at home games were pretty dismal, and obviously tonight was worse than that. When Clarke gets it right, Spain at home, Denmark at home for example, we can be very good. But we are incredibly poor at times under him, and he looks clueless in regards of how to change things. IMO, he is holding us back, and we would get more from this squad with another manager. I know that some will disagree, especially the Steve Clarke loyal, but its my opinion. Lol our manager has us qualifying with two games to spare and you think he should be sacked. Fuck me this place is laugh at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, trout101 said: Call it selective if you want but the point remains that a) we have a terrible record in friendlies and b) we have performed well in our last 2 qualifying campaigns under clarke I don't think anybody is disagreeing with that. That bit is obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningtings Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 My big issue with Clarke is a lack of plan B. Also he should have hooked Patterson at half time. We desperately need another right back and at least one winger who can mix it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 8 minutes ago, runningtings said: My big issue with Clarke is a lack of plan B. Also he should have hooked Patterson at half time. We desperately need another right back and at least one winger who can mix it up. Totally agree with this. Our main strength becomes a weakness when we need a Plan B as the squad is imbalanced with an excess of central midfielders. I'm not at all for throwing the baby out with the bathwater and sacking Clarke, but the squad needs a refresh in some form. Why is Greg Taylor selected? Kenny McLean has been a good servant, but he's not at the standard of other players and weakens the team when he comes on. Paterson is a liability, which is why he hasn't been playing for Everton. I've always thought Ralston looked good when played, but he can't get a game at Celtic either. In the absence of Hickey, we're severely weakened on the right hand side of defence. We're crying out for an option in the wide forward areas, with a player(s) who can run at people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Imperious is stretching it a bit 99 times out of 100 we don't win that game in Norway - They were coasting and took Haaland off Then there is the Spanish defender slipping - allowing Robertson to cut it back for McTominay. We have carried some amount of luck It really is fine margins between qualifying and finishing 3rd We got a goal chalked off for fuck all in Spain. That goal goes in, we win the group. Luck hasn't always gone our way, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Strong disagree that we got lucky in Oslo. Both teams cancelled each other out for the majority and it was essentially a 0-0 game with a soft penalty. Norway thought the game was won with 80 minutes gone and were incredibility naïve to think it was wrapped up at 1-0 - it's one of the oldest clichés in football "You're never totally safe at 1-0". We totally dominated possession in the last 15 minutes and took advantage when the opportunities came along. You also don't win games 2-0 (against Spain) solely by being lucky. Yes, Spain had chances that they didn't take, but so did we - Christie should have hit the target at 1-0, Dykes was one-on-one with the keeper at the end of the first half but couldn't keep his shot down, McGinn hit the bar, and Shankland could have made it 3-0 in injury time. Where we were fortunate was how the games fell. Norway's first two games were Spain away then Georgia away, our first two games were both at home - to Cyprus then Spain. If we'd had Norway's run of fixtures we probably wouldn't have qualified with games to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 22 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Lol our manager has us qualifying with two games to spare and you think he should be sacked. Fuck me this place is laugh at times. Unbelievable isn't it?! Place is full of miserable sods that clearly know next to fuck all about football. If we start losing 3 or 4 competitive games in a row (we won't) then maybe then start to worry. Folk would have sacked him after Dublin (in a group that he won) and then went on to qualify for the Euros with some ease. Some place this, it really is. 5 years ago, some of the same players were getting rode rotten in Kazakstan managed by the manager some on here are comparing Clarke to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Goozay said: Strong disagree that we got lucky in Oslo. Both teams cancelled each other out for the majority and it was essentially a 0-0 game with a soft penalty. Norway thought the game was won with 80 minutes gone and were incredibility naïve to think it was wrapped up at 1-0 - it's one of the oldest clichés in football "You're never totally safe at 1-0". We totally dominated possession in the last 15 minutes and took advantage when the opportunities came along. You also don't win games 2-0 (against Spain) solely by being lucky. Yes, Spain had chances that they didn't take, but so did we - Christie should have hit the target at 1-0, Dykes was one-on-one with the keeper at the end of the first half but couldn't keep his shot down, McGinn hit the bar, and Shankland could have made it 3-0 in injury time. Where we were fortunate was how the games fell. Norway's first two games were Spain away then Georgia away, our first two games were both at home - to Cyprus then Spain. If we'd had Norway's run of fixtures we probably wouldn't have qualified with games to spare. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: We got a goal chalked off for fuck all in Spain. That goal goes in, we win the group. Luck hasn't always gone our way, And this! Although I don't think Christie was actually fouled when he won the free kick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said: Unbelievable isn't it?! Place is full of miserable sods that clearly know next to fuck all about football. If we start losing 3 or 4 competitive games in a row (we won't) then maybe then start to worry. Folk would have sacked him after Dublin (in a group that he won) and then went on to qualify for the Euros with some ease. Some place this, it really is. 5 years ago, some of the same players were getting rode rotten in Kazakstan managed by the manager some on here are comparing Clarke to! It's unbelievable to say the least. Maybe ppl in here would prefer another 20 years of not qualifying. I was surprised Clarke took the job and I am very thankful he did regardless of what happens in Germany. A reality check is needed with some ppl in here. The pinnacle for Scotland is reaching major tournaments, if anybody in here expects much more than that then sorry you will be massively disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Unbelievable isn't it?! Place is full of miserable sods that clearly know next to fuck all about football. If we start losing 3 or 4 competitive games in a row (we won't) then maybe then start to worry. Folk would have sacked him after Dublin (in a group that he won) and then went on to qualify for the Euros with some ease. Some place this, it really is. 5 years ago, some of the same players were getting rode rotten in Kazakstan managed by the manager some on here are comparing Clarke to! I wasn't comparing them as managers. I was comparing their win ratios because somebody was abusing that stat to try to show that Clarkes record is better than it really is. I was merely pointing out that if you want to use that stat alone, and use it properly, then on that stat alone his record is no better than McLeish's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 47 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Lol our manager has us qualifying with two games to spare and you think he should be sacked. Fuck me this place is laugh at times. Might be a laugh, but can you actually read? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 22 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Unbelievable isn't it?! Don't know why you've posted that in reply to a post that is factually incorrect, but who cares about accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I wasn't comparing them as managers. I was comparing their win ratios because somebody was abusing that stat to try to show that Clarkes record is better than it really is. I was merely pointing out that if you want to use that stat alone, and use it properly, then on that stat alone his record is no better than McLeish's My point was actually comparing competitive games to friendlies and the contrast in the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I wasn't comparing them as managers. I was comparing their win ratios because somebody was abusing that stat to try to show that Clarkes record is better than it really is. I was merely pointing out that if you want to use that stat alone, and use it properly, then on that stat alone his record is no better than McLeish's Ok then, we'll use qualification records instead. By the end of the year, Steve Clarke could be 2nd only behind Craig Brown in games managed. He has already managed Scotland in more than double the number of games that McLeish did, so of course you'll have sticky spells. McLeish also never played likes of England, France, Holland etc in friendlies. He also inherited a great side from Smith. Clarke inherited a car crash from McLeish. Last night was utter dross, not one person would say otherwise. Players, management etc all take blame for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, kumnio said: Don't know why you've posted that in reply to a post that is factually incorrect, but who cares about accuracy. Here's a fact - 2 Euros in a row qualified for. Here's another fact, 22 years of qualifying for fuck all before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 hours ago, vanderark14 said: Wales performed well because they had a global superstar in their ranks who scored for fun and they had more solid defenders, it wasn't down to just blooding teenagers. I'd also argue it was down to them having a lack of depth. Which teenagers have England Spain and Brazil played recently? At the moment we have 3 names often mentioned on here. Doig - he will only sit on the bench like Taylor. Is it better for him to continue developing with the U21s or sit warming the bench? Doak - currently injured and since being back hasn't been in the Liverpool squad. Who do we drop for him? Conway - there's an argument for him to be called up as he plays at the same level as dykes and adams but he is not much more prolific. I guess a a goalie could be left out for any of the above. We don't need 4 GKs. Who else is there? Bale certainly carried them through a number of games but even still, it's a team effort in order to win any game and they were getting to the latter stages of major tournaments. More solid defenders? I don't believe they had any better defenders than us currently tbh. They bled in the likes of Bale, Ramsey, Davies etc from a teenagers and built up a lot of experience and caps by their early 20's that made them successful for a long period of time. We end up waiting for players to turn early 20's before they start getting regular game time if they're lucky. England/Spain/Brazil - Maino/Yamal/Endrick all teenagers starting games for their national teams. These are just three examples I can think of off the top of my head but there has been plenty more. Doig - Probably would be warming the bench but he would of got on at LB once Robo went off and could of been used in previous games in place of Taylor who is bog standard. But nah, Clarke will play him as he's a loyal servant and turns up! Doak - Should of been picked in previous squads before he was injured. Drop one of the many CB's or we have or Liam Kelly. Again Clarke, far too safe in what he does, does my tits in as he could of been a wildcard pick. If not Doak then why hasn't Fraser been selected as a much needed winger? We are crying out for them... Conway - A lot younger so has a higher ceiling potentially, why not try him out and see if he is our future no 9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 hours ago, kumnio said: No wonder we struggle to improve. struggle to improve = not qualifying between 1998-2020 and then qualifying 2x in the following 4 years as well as getting promoted in the nations league. You have been proven wrong when you created this thread but yet here you are still talking shite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Here's a fact - 2 Euros in a row qualified for. Here's another fact, 22 years of qualifying for fuck all before then. How many 24 team euros did we fail to qualify for? would go as far as to say qualifying for the last 16 means her haw. Clarke overall has done great but he got it wrong last night. Still want to know who said sack him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Doak - Should of been picked in previous squads before he was injured. he has done very little to merit a call up when you actually look at it 2 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: why hasn't Fraser been selected as a much needed winger? fraser has been selected many times and was never arsed. out with that we barely have any wingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theabsentee Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I liked Clarke as a player & also he has done a good job as manager but it is wearing thin as he does seem very stubborn & slow to change it when it's not working. This is just a example, we have a 29 year old player playing who its fair to say has had a good if unspectacular career as a attacking midfielder. This season his English premier league club side have converted him to a deeper role in midfield & as a consequence the player seems to have taking his game to another level , the difference is that significant that you could even say he is now one of best in the best League in the world in this position yet Clarke fails to acknowledge this & continues to play the player in his previous advanced role in which he rarely puts in more than a decent performance. Long post but if your a stats man if Christie as a attacking midfielder more often that not gives you a 6 or 7 out of 10, since playing deeper he regular gives you a 8 + level performance why the hell is he still playing further forward in friendly matches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, trout101 said: struggle to improve = not qualifying between 1998-2020 and then qualifying 2x in the following 4 years as well as getting promoted in the nations league. You have been proven wrong when you created this thread but yet here you are still talking shite Qualifying for the World Cup playoffs can be added to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, trout101 said: he has done very little to merit a call up when you actually look at it fraser has been selected many times and was never arsed. out with that we barely have any wingers I'd much rather see the likes of Doak being called up than a Jacob Brown or Liam Kelly though, he's a very exciting talent who will be the future of this team so getting him blooded in early. Plus, he's at Liverpool with one of the best players in the world (Salah) in his position so you need to take this into consideration. NI had Bradley in their team last night who scored the winning goal and he has hardly played for Liverpool as he's behind TAA. It just goes to show what can happen if you give talented youngsters a go when given the opportunity but I am sure we will do what we typically do and wait until he is about 21 before getting a few games. I understand your point regarding Fraser and his attitude but we are desperately needing a player like this to change the game if Plan A is not working, a lack of plan b is killing us and I fear we will end up getting shown up completely by the likes of Switzerland and Hungary who are no great shakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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