Coronavirus

[TDYER63]

5 minutes ago, biffer said:

It’s covering your bases. Normally you would expect more than half of vaccine developments to fail. The success rate has been very encouraging. Basically you have to ask yourself -

 

if there are ten vaccine candidates, none of which have a guaranteed delivery time, or can guarantee they’ll actually work, what do you do? 

a) wait and see

b) pick one and hope

c) order from multiple ones to cover yourself
 

The obvious answer is c. 
 

if you then, in doing that, also invest heavily in helping all the manufacturers you’ve chose to develop their production facilities at higher speed, facilitate faster approval mechanisms, commit funding to international bodies to buy vaccine for poorer countries, commit to donating oversupply you have, and insist on domestically developed vaccines being licensed to multiple international producers on a not for profit basis, then I think you’re in a reasonably defensible position.

Johnson and his cabinet of arseholes are despicable charlatans, but the UK has done a very good job of vaccine development, scale up and implementation. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Thanks. You have answered my question on why we have so much. 
Now that we know we have a huge surplus how are decisions on how the surplus is distributed made ? 
I agree that the government has done a good job sourcing it , but I stand by my concerns that we have a government that is not normally overly concerned with other countries and would hope that this will be distributed for the right reasons and not have some political agenda attached. 

[Orraloon]

29 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Thanks. You have answered my question on why we have so much. 
Now that we know we have a huge surplus how are decisions on how the surplus is distributed made ? 
I agree that the government has done a good job sourcing it , but I stand by my concerns that we have a government that is not normally overly concerned with other countries and would hope that this will be distributed for the right reasons and not have some political agenda attached. 

Another thing to consider is that we need about 120 million doses just for the UK. A lot of the doses on order won't be available until later on this year and maybe into 2022. We don't know how long this first round of vaccinations will be effective for. Only time will tell us the answer to that. There is a very good chance that we will need to start the vaccination program all over again going into next winter. 

None of the vaccines on order will go to waste. Even this Tory government isn't going hoard the vaccines and stick them in storage just in case we need them. If it turns out that the UK has ordered more doses than we eventually need, that would be a fantastic result and show that the vaccines are working far better than anybody had hoped for. Personally, I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if we don't need to order more. If we don't need all those 400 million doses those orders will just be reallocated to somewhere that does need them. There is a very good chance that the UK will even pay for them.

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Thanks. You have answered my question on why we have so much. 
Now that we know we have a huge surplus how are decisions on how the surplus is distributed made ? 
I agree that the government has done a good job sourcing it , but I stand by my concerns that we have a government that is not normally overly concerned with other countries and would hope that this will be distributed for the right reasons and not have some political agenda attached. 

Oh aye, I forgot to mention that we don't actually have any surplus. Nobody has a surplus. They are only on order. 

[Lamia]

Just thought I would see what data there was to compare the vaccine rollout in the various nations. Wales has a similar dashboard to Scotland which contains data on their rollout which I have compared the data on the Scottish Gov website which isn't yet in our dashboard. The percentages of first dose are:

Care Home Residents S 99% W 78%

Care Home staff S 89% W 81% (not sure if this is like for like as Scotland separates out older adult staff)

Over 80s in community S 93% W 84%

75-79 S 56% W 68%

70-74 S 20% W 42%

So although Wales has done more first dose vaccinations per head of population Scotland has vaccinated a higher proportion of the top priority list.

I can't find similar data for NI and know there is know similar data isn't published for England.

Scotland, Wales and NI publish reams of data. England hmm not so much. I was trying to find the 7 day test positivity data for Wales but can't find it. Their case numbers there are significantly lower but I suspect their positivity rate is higher looking at today's data which is published by area but not overall.

It is frustrating comparable date is so hard to find if possible at all.

[TDYER63]

11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Another thing to consider is that we need about 120 million doses just for the UK. A lot of the doses on order won't be available until later on this year and maybe into 2022. We don't know how long this first round of vaccinations will be effective for. Only time will tell us the answer to that. There is a very good chance that we will need to start the vaccination program all over again going into next winter. 

None of the vaccines on order will go to waste. Even this Tory government isn't going hoard the vaccines and stick them in storage just in case we need them. If it turns out that the UK has ordered more doses than we eventually need, that would be a fantastic result and show that the vaccines are working far better than anybody had hoped for. Personally, I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if we don't need to order more. If we don't need all those 400 million doses those orders will just be reallocated to somewhere that does need them. There is a very good chance that the UK will even pay for them.

I dont think for a minute they will go to waste, my question was where they will go and how that is decided. I wouldn’t like to think that Boris Johnson was playing god in vaccine distribution.

But I take your point in that we may end up needing more than 2 doses each in the UK  if the vaccine does not provide protection for as long as we would hope 👍

 

[Diamond Scot]

37 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Just thought I would see what data there was to compare the vaccine rollout in the various nations. Wales has a similar dashboard to Scotland which contains data on their rollout which I have compared the data on the Scottish Gov website which isn't yet in our dashboard. The percentages of first dose are:

Care Home Residents S 99% W 78%

Care Home staff S 89% W 81% (not sure if this is like for like as Scotland separates out older adult staff)

Over 80s in community S 93% W 84%

75-79 S 56% W 68%

70-74 S 20% W 42%

So although Wales has done more first dose vaccinations per head of population Scotland has vaccinated a higher proportion of the top priority list.

I can't find similar data for NI and know there is know similar data isn't published for England.

Scotland, Wales and NI publish reams of data. England hmm not so much. I was trying to find the 7 day test positivity data for Wales but can't find it. Their case numbers there are significantly lower but I suspect their positivity rate is higher looking at today's data which is published by area but not overall.

It is frustrating comparable date is so hard to find if possible at all.

I was just thinking about this. News outlets were full of data when they were pushing the point that Scotland was falling behind. Despite the facts Scot Gov had already said that we were doing the harder groups 1st like the care homes. 

Now that our rate has ramped right up, targets met there seems to be no data to be seen anymore. 

 

[Lamia]

4 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I was just thinking about this. News outlets were full of data when they were pushing the point that Scotland was falling behind. Despite the facts Scot Gov had already said that we were doing the harder groups 1st like the care homes. 

Now that our rate has ramped right up, targets met there seems to be no data to be seen anymore. 

 

Only ramping up because we were saved by the UK Gov sending in the troops! 🤔

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, biffer said:

It’s covering your bases. Normally you would expect more than half of vaccine developments to fail. The success rate has been very encouraging. Basically you have to ask yourself -

 

if there are ten vaccine candidates, none of which have a guaranteed delivery time, or can guarantee they’ll actually work, what do you do? 

a) wait and see

b) pick one and hope

c) order from multiple ones to cover yourself
 

The obvious answer is c. 
 

if you then, in doing that, also invest heavily in helping all the manufacturers you’ve chose to develop their production facilities at higher speed, facilitate faster approval mechanisms, commit funding to international bodies to buy vaccine for poorer countries, commit to donating oversupply you have, and insist on domestically developed vaccines being licensed to multiple international producers on a not for profit basis, then I think you’re in a reasonably defensible position.

Johnson and his cabinet of arseholes are despicable charlatans, but the UK has done a very good job of vaccine development, scale up and implementation. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

I think some folk are just looking for something to moan about. 

And why not? I've been known to have a good moan myself sometimes. It helps to pass the time. 

I think the whole story around vaccines has been a fantastic success, so far. There is still time for things to go wrong and there is still no guarantee that these vaccines will get us out of this mess. But everybody involved, from the scientists developing and manufacturing the vaccines right through the supply chain to the vaccinators and the public who have so far been willing to accept the jags in over 90% uptake levels. Even Boris deserves a wee bit of credit for his wee part in this success story, even if it is given reluctantly (on my part anyway). 

Still time yet for him to fuk it up, though.

 

[Lamia]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

I think some folk are just looking for something to moan about. 

And why not? I've been known to have a good moan myself sometimes. It helps to pass the time. 

I think the whole story around vaccines has been a fantastic success, so far. There is still time for things to go wrong and there is still no guarantee that these vaccines will get us out of this mess. But everybody involved, from the scientists developing and manufacturing the vaccines right through the supply chain to the vaccinators and the public who have so far been willing to accept the jags in over 90% uptake levels. Even Boris deserves a wee bit of credit for his wee part in this success story, even if it is given reluctantly (on my part anyway). 

Still time yet for him to fuk it up, though.

 

Judging by past performance I would say that was more down to probability. At some point you are bound to stumble onto getting something right. Maybe letting the NHS get on with doing what they do might have helped here

[TDYER63]

39 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think some folk are just looking for something to moan about. 

And why not? I've been known to have a good moan myself sometimes. It helps to pass the time. 

I think the whole story around vaccines has been a fantastic success, so far. There is still time for things to go wrong and there is still no guarantee that these vaccines will get us out of this mess. But everybody involved, from the scientists developing and manufacturing the vaccines right through the supply chain to the vaccinators and the public who have so far been willing to accept the jags in over 90% uptake levels. Even Boris deserves a wee bit of credit for his wee part in this success story, even if it is given reluctantly (on my part anyway). 

Still time yet for him to fuk it up, though.

 

After the last 10 months its hardly surprising folk are moaning and a little bit cynical. 
The vaccine iIS a huge success and I don't think anyone is denying that.

My concern and possible cynicism is surrounding what will happen with the excess that is on order. I still believe there will be an excess even taking into account the extra we may require if more than one load is required. 

 This isn't a bulk-load of PS 5’s  we have secured just in time for Christmas, its a vaccine that will save lives. When JRM stands up in Westminster and tells Scotland its only due to the strong shoulders of the UK that we have got this, a country that is actually part of the UK , please forgive me for thinking there may be some political capital to be made out of any excess vaccine,  and not because the strong shoulders of the UK wants to look after the rest of the world. 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by TDYER63
.

[Lamia]

If you balance the vaccine success with all the failures it is a net fail! This nis not an argument for the Union - quite the opposite.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Lamia

[ThistleWhistle]

2 hours ago, Lamia said:

Only ramping up because we were saved by the UK Gov sending in the troops! 🤔

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55964150

Propaganda is ramping up beyond belief.  Similar to yesterday's success story with pictures of the army all over it.  If it goes tits up with the snow for a couple of days there'll be no mention of the army for a bit and back to Scottish government fucking it up.

[AlfieMoon]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55964150

Propaganda is ramping up beyond belief.  Similar to yesterday's success story with pictures of the army all over it.  If it goes tits up with the snow for a couple of days there'll be no mention of the army for a bit and back to Scottish government fucking it up.

I was wondering what sort of numbers of army personnel are involved in the programme. 
 

I thought it was just a fairly small number that were deciding on suitable venues for vaccination centres and presumably input to the setup of them. 
 

I’d have imagined that after that, it was over to the NHS. 
 

My mum got her vaccine yesterday and said there wasn’t a soldier to be seen.  

 

[Archiesdad]

49 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

I was wondering what sort of numbers of army personnel are involved in the programme. 
 

I thought it was just a fairly small number that were deciding on suitable venues for vaccination centres and presumably input to the setup of them. 
 

I’d have imagined that after that, it was over to the NHS. 
 

My mum got her vaccine yesterday and said there wasn’t a soldier to be seen.  

 

I read it there were 98 soldiers involved in the vaccine rollout.

[ThistleWhistle]

51 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

I was wondering what sort of numbers of army personnel are involved in the programme. 
 

I thought it was just a fairly small number that were deciding on suitable venues for vaccination centres and presumably input to the setup of them. 
 

I’d have imagined that after that, it was over to the NHS. 
 

My mum got her vaccine yesterday and said there wasn’t a soldier to be seen.  

 

My old dear's reconsidering having the vaccine because she's shit scared at this rate it'll be administered by Robson and Jerome whilst singing 'I Believe'.

[ThistleWhistle]

14 minutes ago, Archiesdad said:

I read it there were 98 soldiers involved in the vaccine rollout.

According to government website there's 5000 involved across the UK so imagine how much faster we could be doing it with our proportional share 🤔🤣

Edited February 6, 2021 by ThistleWhistle

[Archiesdad]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

According to government website there's 5000 involved across the UK so imagine how much faster we could be doing it with our proportional share 🤔🤣

I meant 98 in Scotland.. 

I think you got that.👍

[ThistleWhistle]

13 minutes ago, Archiesdad said:

I meant 98 in Scotland.. 

I think you got that.👍

Sorry think the emojis that I couldn't delete and were applied through fat fingers might have thrown you.

What I was meaning was we've allegedly been saved by the British (ie our own army) yet we only have 90 here whereas rest of UK has 5000.  The propaganda is nauseating and does a disservice to the NHS folk working their genitals off.

Edited February 6, 2021 by ThistleWhistle

[Archiesdad]

14 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Sorry think the emojis that I couldn't delete and were applied through fat fingers might have thrown you.

What I was meaning was we've allegedly been saved by the British (ie our own army) yet we only have 90 here whereas rest of UK has 5000.  The propaganda is nauseating and does a disservice to the NHS folk working their genitals off.

👍

[Lamia]

4 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55964150

Propaganda is ramping up beyond belief.  Similar to yesterday's success story with pictures of the army all over it.  If it goes tits up with the snow for a couple of days there'll be no mention of the army for a bit and back to Scottish government fucking it up.

Exhibit A. The P&J loves this shit and the readership laps it up

 

[Lamia]

And of course the BBC has to get in on the act too!

[biffer]

20 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Thanks. You have answered my question on why we have so much. 
Now that we know we have a huge surplus how are decisions on how the surplus is distributed made ? 
I agree that the government has done a good job sourcing it , but I stand by my concerns that we have a government that is not normally overly concerned with other countries and would hope that this will be distributed for the right reasons and not have some political agenda attached. 

The intention would be to pass them to COVAX, the international alliance which is coordinating vaccines for developing countries. 

[TDYER63]

39 minutes ago, biffer said:

The intention would be to pass them to COVAX, the international alliance which is coordinating vaccines for developing countries. 

Thanks. That’s more reassuring 👍

[Orraloon]

28 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Thanks. That’s more reassuring 👍

He will make sure one of his Tory cronies gets a cut out of the deal. About 10 pence a dose admin fee, or something like that. "Tory Friends and Backers" I think they are called.

https://www.ft.com/content/b872a58c-e91c-4f4c-9f79-c02b8cc37034

 

[TDYER63]

7 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

He will make sure one of his Tory cronies gets a cut out of the deal. About 10 pence a dose admin fee, or something like that. "Tory Friends and Backers" I think they are called.

https://www.ft.com/content/b872a58c-e91c-4f4c-9f79-c02b8cc37034

 

🙁 I prefer it when you make me laugh.

I am not naive enough to think there will be no political back scratching but I do get a bit more comfort thinking there is an international alliance involved.