Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, jackhayes17 said: He missed Kazakhstan for the dentist!! How many Scotland captains of old would choose a dental procedure over playing for their country in an important game? Wasn't he back by the second game in the double header though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Robertson out with a ankle injury, and reports in Liverpool are saying he is a doubt for Liverpool's game v Palace a week on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 The players are an absolute disgrace The ones that have retired, the ones that regularly pull out Happy to take a pain killing injection for their club These are vital games for us, ahead of the play off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: 11 caps in three years is not good. I think it is low because he's not been picked as much as he should have. Unused sub against San Marino, Belgium, Costa Rica, Slovakia. Malta and Lithuania recently. It wasn't that long ago we were using him as a right-back! Personally, I think he is our best player and we need to get the best out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, andyD said: I don't think Clarke has any right to be angry about anything. He's not replaced Cooper, so that suggests he was for the bench anyway. As for left back, Clarke made the choice to leave out Tierney. Robertson's had an injury for a couple of weeks, so there was always a chance he's withdraw. Taylor's an ok understudy, but it's not like we only have 3 left backs in Scotland. Barry Douglas still turns out for Leeds fairly frequently, or call up someone young for their first taste. Patrick Reading at Middlesborough, Tony Gallagher at Liverpool or Aaron Hickey at Hearts who's been doing well from what I've seen. I assume Clarke's called up Shinnie to cover left back and defensive mid. It's a lazy call imo. Shinnie's not a left back any more, he's a defensive mid. We should using him as that and only that, especially give what happened last time we stuffed him in at left back. I don't think that's fair, I mean it's only human to be frustrated to be without either Robbo or Tierney and to know that at most two, but probably only one, of your back line in these two games will be the ones you would have likely wanted to play from the get go. Not getting to maximise your time with your first choice players (likely the case for Fraser and Tierney, definitely Mctominay and Robbo) would make any coach angry. Not necessarily angry at the players themselves, just angry at the situation. Yeah of course he can call other players up, but these are not anyone's first choice and just like the rest of us Clarke is allowed to be annoyed that he isn't getting to use his first choice players. Like any coach and any fan. Shinnie would presumably have been close to making the squad anyway, on the back of his midfield performances for Derby and for what Clarke will have already known about him. Merited his spot as a back up of late, he has done well since coming into that side recently. It would be a mistake to play him left back and presumably that would only happen if Taylor got injured or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Suspect SoD will probably be slotted back into RB and Palmer switched to his club position of LB for these games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Celtic’s 3rd choice left back who’s not played since summer our only option now? Jesus. He played against St Mirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, wanderer said: Robertson out with a ankle injury, and reports in Liverpool are saying he is a doubt for Liverpool's game v Palace a week on Saturday. We'll see. I say he'll play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, Bino's said: The players are an absolute disgrace The ones that have retired, the ones that regularly pull out Happy to take a pain killing injection for their club These are vital games for us, ahead of the play off Seems like a post just born out of general frustration than actual annoyance at the specifics you mention. Are you genuinely angry at Ritchie for retiring because he's damaged our hopes of making the playoffs by doing so? Seriously? He's played barely 90 minutes for Scotland in 3 years. The ones who regularly pull out? Like who? People are pointing a finger at Fraser right now, but he's been here for every one of our last 10 games, bar Kazakhstan which he missed because of injury concerns regarding the pitch. Who's having pain-killing injections for their clubs, but pulling out of Scotland games? Sadly these games aren't vital for us. They're pretty meaningless really. It'd be good to have everyone fit and available and to try and build up to those games in march, but.. we knew that wasn't going to be the case before the squad was announced. Griffiths was out. Souttar was out. Fetch is still in no mans land. It was never going to be perfect. We need to build a squad that can cope, and we don't do that by only capping the exact same players constantly and never giving the reserves any experience. We need those reserves to be ready to step in when needed. The Shinnies, the Devlins, the Taylors.. they need to be able to come in and be comfortable with playing their normal game. We should be capping promising youngsters and getting them involved and developing them for the future, like Strachan did with McGinn. I'm sort of disappointed in the manager, for not turning the withdrawals into an opportunity for others. Cooper drops out, bring in Porteous or Tom McIntyre. Robertson drops out, bring in Hickey or Tony Gallagher. McTominay drops, where's McCrorie? Or Turnbull? Or Ferguson? Fraser out: Johnston, Morgan, Hastie, Middleton.. The manager needs to make the most of everything, not get grumpy and call up bare bones in a huff. That will get us nowhere. Make it an opportunity and use it to build for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, wanderer said: Suspect SoD will probably be slotted back into RB and Palmer switched to his club position of LB for these games. Palmer's been back at right back lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, andyD said: Seems like a post just born out of general frustration than actual annoyance at the specifics you mention. Are you genuinely angry at Ritchie for retiring because he's damaged our hopes of making the playoffs by doing so? Seriously? He's played barely 90 minutes for Scotland in 3 years. The ones who regularly pull out? Like who? People are pointing a finger at Fraser right now, but he's been here for every one of our last 10 games, bar Kazakhstan which he missed because of injury concerns regarding the pitch. Who's having pain-killing injections for their clubs, but pulling out of Scotland games? Sadly these games aren't vital for us. They're pretty meaningless really. It'd be good to have everyone fit and available and to try and build up to those games in march, but.. we knew that wasn't going to be the case before the squad was announced. Griffiths was out. Souttar was out. Fetch is still in no mans land. It was never going to be perfect. We need to build a squad that can cope, and we don't do that by only capping the exact same players constantly and never giving the reserves any experience. We need those reserves to be ready to step in when needed. The Shinnies, the Devlins, the Taylors.. they need to be able to come in and be comfortable with playing their normal game. We should be capping promising youngsters and getting them involved and developing them for the future, like Strachan did with McGinn. I'm sort of disappointed in the manager, for not turning the withdrawals into an opportunity for others. Cooper drops out, bring in Porteous or Tom McIntyre. Robertson drops out, bring in Hickey or Tony Gallagher. McTominay drops, where's McCrorie? Or Turnbull? Or Ferguson? Fraser out: Johnston, Morgan, Hastie, Middleton.. The manager needs to make the most of everything, not get grumpy and call up bare bones in a huff. That will get us nowhere. Make it an opportunity and use it to build for the future. I think he's getting at Brown, McGregor, Snodgrass, McCarthur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, andyD said: I don't think Clarke has any right to be angry about anything. He's not replaced Cooper, so that suggests he was for the bench anyway. As for left back, Clarke made the choice to leave out Tierney. Robertson's had an injury for a couple of weeks, so there was always a chance he's withdraw. Taylor's an ok understudy, but it's not like we only have 3 left backs in Scotland. Barry Douglas still turns out for Leeds fairly frequently, or call up someone young for their first taste. Patrick Reading at Middlesborough, Tony Gallagher at Liverpool or Aaron Hickey at Hearts who's been doing well from what I've seen. I assume Clarke's called up Shinnie to cover left back and defensive mid. It's a lazy call imo. Shinnie's not a left back any more, he's a defensive mid. We should using him as that and only that, especially give what happened last time we stuffed him in at left back. Clarke never made the choice to leave out Tierney, that was Tierneys choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, vanderark14 said: Clarke never made the choice to leave out Tierney, that was Tierneys choice. Only thing Clarke could have done was call him up and see if he's fit but that's pointless as we know he's fit and Arsenal are saying he needs rest. Basically only thing he could do was call him up and tell him he's playing which rightly or wrongly wouldn't have ended well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: We'll see. I say he'll play. Given he has the best part of almost 2 weeks to recover, I would say chances are pretty high..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfingers Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, jackhayes17 said: Marshall Palmer Devlin McKenna Taylor Jack McGregor Forrest McGinn Christie Shankland Would be my team for Cyprus Still enough to win both matches. If the likes of Christie and Forrest work well out wide then Fraser should find it hard to get back in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, wanderer said: Given he has the best part of almost 2 weeks to recover, I would say chances are pretty high..... Exactly - I'd say the chances of him not being injured are pretty high too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Feel terrible Clarke, what a horrible predicament to be in, with Ryan Fraser also pulling out despite playing a full 90 minutes. Absolutely horrendous mentality to have. We really aren’t qualifying for anything with these types of players who couldn’t give a toss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchart Circle Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said: This is becoming brutal. We really need to get some much needed confidence and momentum going before the playoffs and these 2 games were a great chance to do it. A fully fit squad should have been more than capable of getting 6 points but now, especially with that defence, I'm worried we may only get a point now! What rips my knitting most is, with the possible exception of McTominay, all these guys will be playing next week for their clubs. Fucks me off no end... It will get worse should we fail to negotiate the play offs for the Euros. I get the feeling a number of players are getting a bit fed up with the Scotland set up but are hanging on as there is still a reasonable chance of playing at a major tournament. If that comes to pass I expect a number of them to call time on their international careers for good with the usual quote `to concentrate on their busy and demanding club schedule.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 49 minutes ago, andyD said: Taylor's an ok understudy, but it's not like we only have 3 left backs in Scotland. Barry Douglas still turns out for Leeds fairly frequently, or call up someone young for their first taste. Patrick Reading at Middlesborough, Tony Gallagher at Liverpool or Aaron Hickey at Hearts who's been doing well from what I've seen. This. Why Barry Douglas hasn't been called up immediately, I have no idea. By some distance our best and most experienced remaining left back. Also adds some serious dead ball prowess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said: Only thing Clarke could have done was call him up and see if he's fit but that's pointless as we know he's fit and Arsenal are saying he needs rest. Basically only thing he could do was call him up and tell him he's playing which rightly or wrongly wouldn't have ended well. I think Clarke handled it the right way. I'm ready to give up on scotland, we've got fans and players treating games like they are meaningless when they are far from being meaningless. We might as well jump on the band wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, ElChris04 said: Feel terrible Clarke, what a horrible predicament to be in, with Ryan Fraser also pulling out despite playing a full 90 minutes. Absolutely horrendous mentality to have. We really aren’t qualifying for anything with these types of players who couldn’t give a toss. Only one I would really question is Fraser, rest I would take a legit. As said above, Liverpool are saying both Robbo and Salah are doubts for their game v Palace with ankle knocks, Cooper went off with a torn groin muscle at the weekend, and McT had to be taken off on a stretcher, so I would give all three the benefit of the doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, ElChris04 said: Feel terrible Clarke, what a horrible predicament to be in, with Ryan Fraser also pulling out despite playing a full 90 minutes. Absolutely horrendous mentality to have. We really aren’t qualifying for anything with these types of players who couldn’t give a toss. Absolutely spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said: I think he's getting at Brown, McGregor, Snodgrass, McCarthur. McArthur is 32 and it's over a year since he retired. When he did play he was generally awful for us. Snodgrass is 32 and if he was available still it's doubtful he'd play any part in these games. Burke, Forrest and Christie are pretty certain to be ahead of him in the wide berths and he's not going to usurp McGinn in the middle. McGregor's 37.. We're getting angry at 37 year olds for wanting to pass the torch on? Bizarre. He also seems to have become reckless and more of a liability that a blessing if he were to play for us. Brown is 34 and is planning to hang his boots up altogether after 1 more full season. He had widely reported injury issues and seems to be managing that better since getting to rest in the international breaks. Then Ritchie who's only 30, but has barely played for us in 3 years. These are all old guys who have done their innings and are at a point where they should be being replaced. Of the 5 Brown might still get in the side, but that's more because of management failures to me than anything. We've been ignoring the need for a defensive mid in the team for a long while, and instead just playing the 'best' or highest league playing players like McGregor and McLean. We've lacked any kind of midfield balance and so anyone who's played has looked pretty disastrous and been shuffled out of the side. Unfortunately Clarke seems to also only be picking from this 'reputation' group of players, and not building a side with some balance to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, andyD said: Seems like a post just born out of general frustration than actual annoyance at the specifics you mention. Are you genuinely angry at Ritchie for retiring because he's damaged our hopes of making the playoffs by doing so? Seriously? He's played barely 90 minutes for Scotland in 3 years. The ones who regularly pull out? Like who? People are pointing a finger at Fraser right now, but he's been here for every one of our last 10 games, bar Kazakhstan which he missed because of injury concerns regarding the pitch. Who's having pain-killing injections for their clubs, but pulling out of Scotland games? Sadly these games aren't vital for us. They're pretty meaningless really. It'd be good to have everyone fit and available and to try and build up to those games in march, but.. we knew that wasn't going to be the case before the squad was announced. Griffiths was out. Souttar was out. Fetch is still in no mans land. It was never going to be perfect. We need to build a squad that can cope, and we don't do that by only capping the exact same players constantly and never giving the reserves any experience. We need those reserves to be ready to step in when needed. The Shinnies, the Devlins, the Taylors.. they need to be able to come in and be comfortable with playing their normal game. We should be capping promising youngsters and getting them involved and developing them for the future, like Strachan did with McGinn. I'm sort of disappointed in the manager, for not turning the withdrawals into an opportunity for others. Cooper drops out, bring in Porteous or Tom McIntyre. Robertson drops out, bring in Hickey or Tony Gallagher. McTominay drops, where's McCrorie? Or Turnbull? Or Ferguson? Fraser out: Johnston, Morgan, Hastie, Middleton.. The manager needs to make the most of everything, not get grumpy and call up bare bones in a huff. That will get us nowhere. Make it an opportunity and use it to build for the future. Brown, McGregor, Ritchie, Snograss, McArthur, Fletcher, Tierney, Fraser Plenty more could be added to list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Bino's said: Brown, McGregor, Ritchie, Snograss, McArthur, Fletcher, Tierney, Fraser Plenty more could be added to list Just talked about the first 5. Who knows what's going on with Fletch. Not going to blame the player when the manager is just as opaque about it. Tierney could have been called up if Clarke wanted to. It's fairly obvious he's still recovering tho given his club appearances. Fraser has been in for the last 10 games. . so.. huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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