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4 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I would say he is one of the most naturally gifted players ever to walk the earth, and doesn’t carry the baggage of a Maradona or George Best which has allowed him to do it consistently.

It is a shame he has never done it (or had the team with him to do it) at a World Cup, but he has done it in the champions league and as much as we might all wish things didn’t move on, that is now the pinnacle.

Exactly putting Maradona on a team got you a championship, Messi might be a better individual player (though i doubt it) he doesn't raise the rest of the team the same way.

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53 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said:

I know. The shameless bastard would count a goal in the back garden with his neice in goals.

one of the production staff off phoenix from the flames looked into his "goals"

700 odd in competitive games unless you're using the Seville calculation method which Pele is fond of doing

he really isnt as good as Diego, Ron or Messi but yellow shirts do look good on the telly

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11 hours ago, phart said:

Exactly putting Maradona on a team got you a championship, Messi might be a better individual player (though i doubt it) he doesn't raise the rest of the team the same way.

The issue I have with that angle is that he got his team to a final in 2014 and if hadn't been for some horrendous finishing from Higuain, they would have won that final and this narrative wouldn't exist, but alas he missed and they didn't win. I'd also argue that he has lifted this current Barcelona team to a few league titles when in fact they are not that good a team. 

 

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6 hours ago, Mox said:

The issue I have with that angle is that he got his team to a final in 2014 and if hadn't been for some horrendous finishing from Higuain, they would have won that final and this narrative wouldn't exist, but alas he missed and they didn't win. I'd also argue that he has lifted this current Barcelona team to a few league titles when in fact they are not that good a team. 

 

Let's face it. Winning the World Cup now is probably harder as there are more teams at the top levels during any competition.

From that point of view would Maradona drag Argentina over the line now? 

Would the Brazil led by Pele achieve now what they did then? 

Probably not in both cases. 

While I can appreciate Messi, Ronaldo and Maradona, I just prefer Pele. It's probably down to my age and who I saw as a child. 

I don't agree about this Barcelona team being not very good. Without Messi they might not win the league but they are still a very good team. 

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Those are the margins you work with at the top. Finalist versus winner.

Maradona jumped to Italy and brought Napoli domestic and European success they hadn't had and haven't had since.

 

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23 hours ago, exile said:

All of the above could be true. 

Still, not sure why people so touchy about Messi. 

Messi is arguably overrated. I imagine Pele thinks greatness is measured in world cups. 

Pele played and scored in three world cup winning sides, including scoring in two finals. Messi never won a world cup.

Ahh good on you, a man after my own heart. I love a good Sunday session too, a real man's drinking day. 

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3 hours ago, phart said:

Those are the margins you work with at the top. Finalist versus winner.

Maradona jumped to Italy and brought Napoli domestic and European success they hadn't had and haven't had since.

That’s the massive tick in the box for Maradona for me.

As you say, he took a team who had done little before and little since to the top of Italian and European football.

Although I do agree that Barcelona have had a couple of dips over the Messi era, where he has single handedly won them trophies.

i hadn’t realised Renfrew blue was so old. Was pele a good all round player or a Brazilian Kris Boyd?

:lol: 

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36 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

That’s the massive tick in the box for Maradona for me.

As you say, he took a team who had done little before and little since to the top of Italian and European football.

Although I do agree that Barcelona have had a couple of dips over the Messi era, where he has single handedly won them trophies.

i hadn’t realised Renfrew blue was so old. Was pele a good all round player or a Brazilian Kris Boyd?

:lol: 

Cheeky young whipper snapper. 😁

I'm only 50 but my Dad was a big fan of Pele so I was possibly indoctrinated early on and was given a VHS tape when I was about 10 or so. 

I've watched loads of the old clips too. 

 

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I know my dad held Pele in high regard, but was also a big fan of Messi. Thought Maradona was a junkie and couldn’t see past that.

:lol:

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20 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I know my dad held Pele in high regard, but was also a big fan of Messi. Thought Maradona was a junkie and couldn’t see past that.

:lol:

My Dad was dead before Messi came to prominence but he had a similar view as your Dad on Maradona. 

The only other players my Dad ever raved about were Puskas, Di Stefano and Davie Cooper. 

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12 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Cheeky young whipper snapper. 😁

I'm only 50 but my Dad was a big fan of Pele so I was possibly indoctrinated early on and was given a VHS tape when I was about 10 or so. 

I've watched loads of the old clips too. 

 

Wow, you had a VCR in the 70s? Round my way your family would have been classed as part of the wealthy elite. I had no idea that you came from a moneyed background.;)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

IMHO

First is Pele.

Second is Maradona.

Third is debatable and could be one of maybe a couple of dozen other players.

 

Messi not even guaranteed a spot in your top 3?

:shocked:

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27 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said:

Don't a lot of Brazilian's hold Garrincha in higher regard compared to Pele? Not that that takes away from anyones opinion of course.

And probably Didi. Both would be in contention for my number 3 spot.

 

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Read that Pele didn’t include a lot of his teammates in his 125 best players in the world?

Regardless his achievements are unmatched, similarly maradona did something at Napoli that no one else has achieved.

But since I didn’t see either play Messi is 1 and Ronaldo 2. Their consistency is ridiculous in the modern game. 

Xavi number 3. 

Edited by ParisInAKilt

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14 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Read that Pele didn’t include a lot of his teammates in his 125 best players in the world?

Regardless his achievements are unmatched, similarly maradona did something at Napoli that no one else has achieved.

But since I didn’t see either play Messi is 1 and Ronaldo 2. Their consistency is ridiculous in the modern game. 

Xavi number 3. 

Which Ronaldo? If you tell me that you can't remember the other one, then you are far too young to be allowed an opinion on this.:lol:

 

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Which Ronaldo? If you tell me that you can't remember the other one, then you are far too young to be allowed an opinion on this.:lol:

 

Haha the Portuguese one unfortunately. The original should never have left Barcelona ....

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I'm talking who is the best peak player, obviously folk like Messi and Pele had a longevity of career that would make me more likely to pick them to start a team. Diego for me was the best though.

 

Also Messi is relatively terrible at penalties. Which must be a mental thing considering how technical he is normally.

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7 minutes ago, phart said:

I'm talking who is the best peak player, obviously folk like Messi and Pele had a longevity of career that would make me more likely to pick them to start a team. Diego for me was the best though.

 

Also Messi is relatively terrible at penalties. Which must be a mental thing considering how technical he is normally.

80% record as of June 2018, Ronaldo 83%. Not sure how either compares to Cantona etc who have excellent records 

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6 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Wow, you had a VCR in the 70s? Round my way your family would have been classed as part of the wealthy elite. I had no idea that you came from a moneyed background.;)

 

 

It was the late 70s and had a wired remote control with about a 2 metre lead. 

Think it was a Panasonic but not sure. 

It was a short lived flirtation with the technological leading edge. 😁

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On 12/11/2018 at 4:48 PM, phart said:

I'm talking who is the best peak player, obviously folk like Messi and Pele had a longevity of career that would make me more likely to pick them to start a team. Diego for me was the best though.

 

Also Messi is relatively terrible at penalties. Which must be a mental thing considering how technical he is normally.

Agree about the penalties, I don't know why he takes them tbh, never understood it. 

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