Glasgowmancity Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I did say there were YES flags, but I personally heard no singing. A bit like at Fulham where a group of about 10 started song about 'Union' 'ass' and 'sticking' and nobody else joined in, and that was the end of it. Yes, I was asked about it by Germans, but the subject is TA members expressing opinions is it not? Here's what you said In Dortmund there was hardly a mention of the upcoming vote, I found that surprising as I saw & heard many mentions of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Here's what you said I found that surprising as I saw & heard many mentions of it. Thanks for that...'hardly a mention' sums it up fine and I stand by that...I was asked about it by ONE group of Germans. It seems we weren't in the same locations and did not share the same experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 The referendum was talk of the steamie where I was in Dortmund, among Scots and Germans. Mind you I was drinking with the "Alistair Darling Tartan Army"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannannan Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 "Germans for Scottish Idependance" were extremely active.Nice bunch of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 "Germans for Scottish Idependance" were extremely active.Nice bunch of guys. And they wound up the Daily Fail too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 It all depends which campaign you believed to be fair. The NHS was debated on many an occasion, and I'm not convinced we reached any conclusions. It could face continuing privatisation under the UK government. It could suffer in an Independent Scotland. Where's the evidence things will improve for people in poverty in the Union? I'd suggest that given all the evidence (Tory hatred for the welfare state, Labour promising to be 'tougher on welfare than the tories', WorkFare schemes, minimum wage falling in real terms every year, continuing privatisation of the NHS by whichever is elected) then a 'No' vote didn't risk making things worse for those at the bottom, but guaranteed it. At least with a 'Yes' we'd have had a chance at improving their lot. All of the things I mentioned are happening now, and are guaranteed to continue with a 'No' vote (you picked out the NHS one - I live in England so it's happening here). None of them are anything to do with the referendum campaign, other than potentially having been avoidable with a 'Yes' vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBarrysGotAnMBE Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 They are not GUARANTEED to continue. I'd imagine the fact they are only POTENTIALLY avoidable in an uncertain Independent Scotland worried people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 They are not GUARANTEED to continue. You're right. We might get the power to raise income tax. So when our block "grant" gets cut, we can all pay more to stand still. Woohoo - Vote Naw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 They are not GUARANTEED to continue. I'd imagine the fact they are only POTENTIALLY avoidable in an uncertain Independent Scotland worried people. Labour HAVE promised to be "tougher on welfare than the Tories". Labour have no plans to revoke Workfare schemes. The minimum wage will rise to £8 per hour by 2020 under a Labour government - that's barely above the current living wage, never mind 2020's living wage. The NHS in England is being privatised, meaning less public spending on it in England, meaning less for the block grant to Scotland. Privatisation by the back door. If this wasn't scary enough, TTIP opens up the entire NHS to marketisation. They would have been 'potentially' avoidable with a 'Yes' vote (i.e. free at point of delivery healthcare would have been enshrined in the interim constitution, and would be politically impossible to remove from the final version I'd wager). They are unavoidable now we've voted no. These things are happening, and there's no longer anything anyone can do about it. But, like Parklife says, we might get a bit more power over income tax, so it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilly71 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 anyway Weebarry, can you see that different opinions are allowed here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBarrysGotAnMBE Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 Labour HAVE promised to be "tougher on welfare than the Tories". Labour have no plans to revoke Workfare schemes. The minimum wage will rise to £8 per hour by 2020 under a Labour government - that's barely above the current living wage, never mind 2020's living wage. The NHS in England is being privatised, meaning less public spending on it in England, meaning less for the block grant to Scotland. Privatisation by the back door. If this wasn't scary enough, TTIP opens up the entire NHS to marketisation. Austerity measures will continue, yes. As I said, the NHS is a debatable subject. Many healthcare professionals suggested it was safer in the Union, others disagreed. They would have been 'potentially' avoidable with a 'Yes' vote (i.e. free at point of delivery healthcare would have been enshrined in the interim constitution, and would be politically impossible to remove from the final version I'd wager). I'd wager that wouldn't be the case at all. Nobody knows what would've happened. It's as simple as that. There's insufficient evidence to suggest poverty levels would improve in an Independent Scotland. Getting back to my original point, to suggest No-voters were just in it for themselves and don't care about those in poverty is a completely unfair assumption. anyway Weebarry, can you see that different opinions are allowed here? Yes, after the initial name-calling and pettiness, things settled down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 How long will austerity continue for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 How long will austerity continue for? Maybe Labour and the Tories think It's the settled will of the Scottish people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Maybe Labour and the Tories think It's the settled will of the Scottish people. That's the impression I got from the better together campaign. Give them credit. They've managed to convince the majority of Scotland that things would be worse with independence despite how bad the UK economy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULSTERSCOTAS Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Have l missed something? l thought that things (in particular the UK constitution) were being sorted out so that people in Scotland would be able to make the decisions about their lives, prosperity, final solution regarding Rangers supporters, etc. but, crucially, without breaking up the UK? ls that not fair enough given the referendum result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Have l missed something?Obviously you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULSTERSCOTAS Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Obviously you have. Lol . . . that's a great example of a selective quote that would do oul Salmond himself proud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Have l missed something? l thought that things (in particular the UK constitution) were being sorted out so that people in Scotland would be able to make the decisions about their lives, prosperity, final solution regarding Rangers supporters, etc. but, crucially, without breaking up the UK? ls that not fair enough given the referendum result? Well, no not really...given the 'vow' that made a certain percentage of people choose no. There was a promise of instant, decisive, far-reaching new powers for Scotland. Their first deadline is already past, with no action being taken. We're being lied to already. I don't find that 'fair enough'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULSTERSCOTAS Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Well, no not really...given the 'vow' that made a certain percentage of people choose no. There was a promise of instant, decisive, far-reaching new powers for Scotland. Their first deadline is already past, with no action being taken. We're being lied to already. I don't find that 'fair enough'. Accept that nobody likes being lied to but re-constituting is going to take a bit more than a week . . . surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Lol . . . that's a great example of a selective quote that would do oul Salmond himself proud!I'm not here to hold your hand while you troll. The "Vow" and timetable are already being shown as lies simply to win votes. If that proves to be the case, then the Westminster parties will be punished and there will be another referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm not here to hold your hand while you troll. The "Vow" and timetable are already being shown as lies simply to win votes. If that proves to be the case, then the Westminster parties will be punished and there will be another referendum. And so there should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'm not here to hold your hand while you troll. The "Vow" and timetable are already being shown as lies simply to win votes. If that proves to be the case, then the Westminster parties will be punished and there will be another referendum. There should be a law that you can't hold a referendum on the same subject for at least 5 years........they are really bad for your health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watsoniansfan Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Just like how devo killed Nationalism stone dead? No not like Devo. Federal uk means a written constitution and then Indy becomes v hard if not impossible. So v different to Devo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watsoniansfan Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I do get where Wee Barry's coming from. Of course you are allowed different opinions down the years we've had English trolls etc. but there is a tacit understanding that if you are not a Nat then you are an outsider. I've been a member of this forum for 8 years now on and off. When I first came on I got involved in a political topic and was called a "troll" for being unionist. Even though I'm a Scotland fan on a Scotland fan's board. Go figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Go figure? You've been assimilated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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