...there's an overlap! Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Going to be difficult to win any future referendum not only because of the 65+ age group but also because of the split personality relationship that a substantial part of our population has with last century's (!) religious bigotry located, not here (!) , but in a neighbouring country. The German's have got an expression: Betriebsblind - which basically describes the problem you have in business when you get so used to your working environment and it's processes, you lose the fresh sense of perspective that an outsider would get looking in. Your basically a bit blind to the fact you could and maybe should be doing differently and more effectively. We are Betriebsblind. We have lived with Orange Orders/ walks, No Surrender and all that stuff because a] it's been around for so long and b] it's quite widespread considering the size of our population. How many Rangers fans were in Manchester? How many would still be singing Billy Boys (fenian blood and all that) if weren't banned? In a small country of 4.3 million voters that's a significant part of the population influenced by the "views" of the Unionists. I have already posted this (just before the referendum) but it's worth repeating now or at any time in the future for that matter: Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:13 PM Dog Whistle Nationalism? Better than Orange Order Flute Nationalism, if you ask me. Has any other country got the identity crisis that we've got by the way? One major Scottish football team whose stadium is filled with the the tricolour and another with Union Jacks. WTF?!! Everyone knows not all Rangers fans are Unionists and not all Rangers fans are religious bigots who support the club because of the club's former stance again Catholics but search a generation or two down the family tree and it won't take too long to find someone who was/ still is. Vote Yes and,as a helpful little by product, send all that schitt a decade or two further back into the dark ages. Edited September 20, 2014 by ...there's an overlap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 The sectarian split is a non issue. Glasgow voted Yes while carrying a large segment of nutcase No's. Aberdeen has zero sectarian problem, Edinburgh very little compared to Glasgow. Glasgow has proven herself. I love that place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I think people from Aberdeen and Edinburgh need to get off Glasgow's case in future and take a closer look at your own town. And I say that as someone who grew up in Aberdeen and supports AFC (just at this point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...there's an overlap! Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that we're Betriebsblind and a fūcking odd little country looked at from the outside in. Anyone else ever tried explaining to a foreigner why Celtic fly the tricolour and Rangers the Union Jack although they are both Scottish clubs? You listen to the words coming out of your own mouth and then it dawns on you how backward we are - and we don't realise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanJon Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Third biggest city in the UK and so called "Second City of the Empire" voted to leave. Think about that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 This is the other thing...you have to stop equating celtic and rangers, always saying they are 'both as bad the other'. They are not and here is why. Celtic fans are pro Ireland not necessarily anti Scotland, they can be turned and were turned to Yes. A significant % of rangers fans are anti Scotland, end of story, and you will never be able to change it. And it is these ones that we have to excommunicate from our company. Pariahs. I watched in horror the last 3+ years as this board tore into celtic while cozying up to Bewlay. Bizarre. It is like you do not know who you real enemies are. And your friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faddy'sMrs Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Out of the 70%+ of pensioners that apparently voted No, a low %age of them will have engaged in online activity throughout this campaign. The media they watch and read is mainly pro-union I would guess. My own mum a prime example, reads the Record, The Sunday Post and watches the BBC news. Try as I might I could not win any debates with her as she's been fed so much anti-Salmond/SNP/indy stories for so long. This group will gradually diminish, and you have an upcoming new electorate who are constantly online, on social media etc that will see both both sides of the argument in a way so many of the current older generation haven't. I think you also have a current group of 50/60 year olds who are becoming more and more internet savvy, and while they maybe voted No this time, it was a smaller %age than those in the older age bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Out of the 70%+ of pensioners that apparently voted No, a low %age of them will have engaged in online activity throughout this campaign. The media they watch and read is mainly pro-union I would guess. My own mum a prime example, reads the Record, The Sunday Post and watches the BBC news. Try as I might I could not win any debates with her as she's been fed so much anti-Salmond/SNP/indy stories for so long. This group will gradually diminish, and you have an upcoming new electorate who are constantly online, on social media etc that will see both both sides of the argument in a way so many of the current older generation haven't. I think you also have a current group of 50/60 year olds who are becoming more and more internet savvy, and while they maybe voted No this time, it was a smaller %age than those in the older age bracket. Agree. Lets go again in 10 years when the selfish old b@ggers are six feet under. So close 45 percent only another 6 percent and the Yes are over the finishing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 We are Betriebsblind. Like when he was the manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...there's an overlap! Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Good one. I think that was Bertie's Blind you're thinking of ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Just seen my 76 year old father-in-law for the first time since last Sunday, when I went through various issues he had with pensions and armed forces. He served 24 years in the Argyll's and often raged against the disbandment of the Scottish regiments. After showing him the White Paper and the Wee Blue Book and spending a good couple of hours explaining and reassuring I left him a happy and confirmed Yes vote. He's just told me he was scared of losing his pension and switched on his way to the polling station. I was just beginning to feel galvanised and ready to continue the fight, but I'm now back to feeling how I did at 4.30 on Friday morning. Absolutely fuckin devastated and close to tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Never understood why the auld yins would think they would all of a sudden 'lose' their pension. I despair at the lies spun by Brown on that subject when he was the man that completely emptied the pension pots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think people from Aberdeen and Edinburgh need to get off Glasgow's case in future and take a closer look at your own town. And I say that as someone who grew up in Aberdeen and supports AFC (just at this point). Glasgow is s wonderful city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Perhaps Thursday was the day Glasgow finally disassociated itself from the Labour Party. Being a Paisley boy I always had a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the noisy neighbours but not anymore. Make no mistake, Glasgow won't forget the memory of some of their MP's been seen dancing with the Tories at the post referendum BT bash. There will be a few Glasgow Labour MP's (and MSP's in 2016) who will be quaking in their boots come May next year. I sincerely hope Ian Davidson is one of them. An odious bullying scumbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimi hendrix Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I blame these mild winters we've been having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 71% of under 20's voted YES.. 75 % of over 656's voted NAW............. let that be the hope for the future.......... Salmond knew the under 18's would be YES... I think he underestimated the oldies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Rampant Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 71% of under 20's voted YES.. 75 % of over 656's voted NAW............. let that be the hope for the future.......... Salmond knew the under 18's would be YES... I think he underestimated the oldies.... I think he underestimated the lengths and depths that the establishment would go to to petrify them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddiebeadle Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Agree. Lets go again in 10 years when the selfish old b@ggers are six feet under. So close 45 percent only another 6 percent and the Yes are over the finishing line. I don't think the old were selfish, they were just conned by the "state" media. My 82 year old Mum was convinced she would loose her pension, and 30 years ago she was an active member of the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 This has been a political wake up call for me in interesting areas. I have been traditionally very sentimental about our pensioners, caring for them to the expense of other demographic groups...but I now think this was (overall) a mistake, sentimentality on my behalf. Why is pensioner more deserving than a baby? Much less so surely...I have two parents living on a state pension but pensioners are not our future and it is time to put precious resources elsewhere. Scottish pensioners should be treated exactly the same as english ones. It is what they voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think their was a variety of reasons. Main ones I heard. 1. Feel British. 2. Uncertainty and fear stories. 3. Too late to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Never understood why the auld yins would think they would all of a sudden 'lose' their pension. Despite the fact that pensions were guaranteed by the UK government, Darling and Brown both made huge play out of 'pensions being at risk' in the last week of the campaign....it was deliberately targeted at scaring pensioners. It's a pity that the Yes campaign didn't use their significant databases to try and identify all 60 plussers, and to produce literature specifically designed for them....something that would have eased their fears on pensions, losing the BBC, heating benefits etc. As it was, it seems to me that many 60 plussers were left to their own devices to get their information from the BBC and MSM. No wonder they voted No. Even gaining another 15% of the pensioner vote could have made a significant difference. A chance lost I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Glasgow is s wonderful city. Dundee is 4% better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 As an aside, my parents (both in their 70's) had no phone calls, no door calls, and no Yes literature in the door until last Wednesday. Same goes for everyone in street where loads of pensioners live. My parents voted Yes, but the vast majority of other pensioners they know in the street voted No. I was stunned to hear that they...or anyone else in the street...hadn't been contacted or hadn't had any Yes literature through the door at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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