Brummie Hibs Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just looking for some preliminary advice on this before thousands start getting spend on official legal advice. I'll try to keep things concise. Mum and Partner (unmarried, but together for 25 years or so). House - mortgage paid (we think - it may have been re-mortgaged [can't find out]). House ownership: Mum 70%, Him 30%. Apparently he has never been registered at property. 6 weeks ago mum rushed to hospital, now certified as unable to make legally binding decisions. Thoughts and memory are confused. My mum is the type of person who would sign anything put in front of her if you tell her it is required. He has/had suspected big gambling debts, Last week he died of a heart attack. Apparently he has no will. He has daughter, brothers and sisters. Mum has me, my 2 sisters and 2 brothers. Apparently changed the locks to the house and gave keys to his family, not to us. Apparently his family have entered and started removing things. We now have a set of keys from his mate. Funeral tomorrow, and his family have now changed plans at last minute so my mum cannot travel in car. The option given to her is she gets to gets in car a few yards from church, gets her and wheelchair in, it drives a few yards, and then she gets out. Degrading stuff. I'm expecting nasty atmosphere tomorrow (I can't go further into why!). So, it's gloves off. What I need to know roughly is who gets power over bank accounts, house, its sales, access to property, removal of items, identifying ownership of items, who would be entitled to have to pay for any unpaid council tax due to being unregistered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibelieve!!! Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 If there's no will, there will surely be a part of mortgage that says if one of them dies then full ownership is passed onto the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Get a solicitor. Sounds like this one will be messy. Getting power of attorney after the event can take a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Might depend whether they lived in Scotland or England but I think the general approach is that what was his becomes his estate and what is hers remains hers. If he was a part owner of the house that proportion becomes part of his estate. Joint bank accounts might well be frozen by the bank and if there's no will that will complicate things considerably. Your mum's state of health won't change any entitlement she might have, but will complicate things. You'll need a lawyer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, ibelieve!!! said: If there's no will, there will surely be a part of mortgage that says if one of them dies then full ownership is passed onto the other? Not necessarily - it wouldn't be linked to the mortgage, but the main thing is that (in Scotland) it has to be a conscious decision by both parties to agree to hold title on this basis. Conveyancing solicitors used to put this sort of provision in without really explaining the implications and it often got messy if one unmarried part owner died after separating from the other but without changing that provision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Are you in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I would not assume the deceased gave his relatives the keys and or agreed to the locks being changed. It is your mum's house so I would boot the door in and change the locks again. Let them call the police if they want as your mum is on the title deeds. Get a lawyer pronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, thplinth said: I would not assume the deceased gave his relatives the keys and or agreed to the locks being changed. It is your mum's house so I would boot the door in and change the locks again. Let them call the police if they want as your mum is on the title deeds. Get a lawyer pronto. As others have said - get a lawyer, or at the very least ask Citizens Advice Bureau to start off with (very soon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Sometimes violence can bring relief.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 When everyone is at the funeral tomorrow boot it in then and change the locks. That way you minimize the need to kick anyone's khunt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) a quick way to find out if it was remortgaged would be to go on the land registry site and do a search, you should be able to see from there if a finance company has a registered interest still in the house. https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry For the rest, get a lawyer asap. Edited June 8, 2016 by giblet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 0141 227 2200 ask for Laurence Reilly, and say Flora referred you. Good lawyer and lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Hibs Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thanks for the advice. This is indeed Scotland. We'll see what tomorrow entails, then take it from there. Just visited mum in hospital, and mentally she sems to have improved but I need to talk to doctors direct to get assessment - I cannot rely on my sisters to paint it in an unbiased way. Like many have said, a lawyer is required. Just want to get prepared as they seem to already have a jump start with getting a lawyer before the body was even cold. We have a set of keys and pan to enter tomorrow with my mum - we are entitled to do that. Not sure if we can take anything. Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboyblue Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Good luck with all this, sounds like it could be tricky. Your Mum probably need some legal representation as others have said. Things I would be looking at would be how the house is owned. I think neilser was hinting at this but there are two main ways two people can own a house. Terminology differs in Scotland and England but essentially two people can own the whole house jointly, or they can jointly own it in shares. You've given clear percentages so its probably the latter. You might here phrases such as joint tenants, tenants in common and separable common ownership used. Some lawyers would advocate removing the survivorship clause in a will so each person could will their share to whoever they wanted. A person can only grant a POA if mentally capable of doing so. Otherwise someone would need to apply to the Court to become a Financial Guardian. I'm not saying this is the case here. Lastly, I guess those dealing with the estate of the Partner will need a Court appointment since he died intestate. The only people who should be able to touch his assets, in theory, are his legal representatives or a joint owner. Since he did not appoint and Executor in his lifetime, I would say there is currently no-one able to act for his estate, although that is probably what his side are now working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 2 hours ago, littleboyblue said: Good luck with all this, sounds like it could be tricky. Your Mum probably need some legal representation as others have said. Things I would be looking at would be how the house is owned. I think neilser was hinting at this but there are two main ways two people can own a house. Terminology differs in Scotland and England but essentially two people can own the whole house jointly, or they can jointly own it in shares. You've given clear percentages so its probably the latter. You might here phrases such as joint tenants, tenants in common and separable common ownership used. Some lawyers would advocate removing the survivorship clause in a will so each person could will their share to whoever they wanted. A person can only grant a POA if mentally capable of doing so. Otherwise someone would need to apply to the Court to become a Financial Guardian. I'm not saying this is the case here. Lastly, I guess those dealing with the estate of the Partner will need a Court appointment since he died intestate. The only people who should be able to touch his assets, in theory, are his legal representatives or a joint owner. Since he did not appoint and Executor in his lifetime, I would say there is currently no-one able to act for his estate, although that is probably what his side are now working on. As above, you really need to get PoA before you need it not after i.e. get it as early as possible in case an elderly parent does go downhill quickly and/or unexpectedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 As other have said, get a lawyer to deal and soon. I do property, and this will be complex - as others have said the Registers of Scotland will be able to tell you about the mortgage- Standard Securities (mortgages) in Scotland are only valid upon registration. They have no right to remove anything from the property though at this stage. If you are looking for a lawyer- the Law society of Scotland will be able to advise you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think i'm right in saying that in Scotland if there's no will the estate goes downwards i.e. offspring as opposed to sideways (spouse/partner). sounds very messy though and there's the whole common law entitlement issue even if they weren't married etc. I would involve a family lawyer very quickly and maybe even the police (the removal of assets from the house may be a crime)..... Good luck - hope you get it sorted out. (As Stu states above, the Law Society are extremely helpful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewolf_1980 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Best of luck with this. I don't have much to add other than get a lawyer asap and let them know the urgency of the situation so that he can arrange the necessary legal 'arrestments' to avoid property being wrongfully taken by others. As Larky said, and I know it won't help, those of us with only one parent left should get PoA arranged before it's too late, even when that parent is still in full control. Hope all resolves itself to your satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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