Mazziessc Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2XTory for me. Sadly what little confidence I had in the SNP has now completely gone. IMO they will win comfortably including here in West Dunbartonshire. I do however believe like me many of their strongest supporters are beginning to be come tired of their incapacity to lead and answer any remotely difficult questions. Slowly but surely they are being found out. Sadly not quick enough to change the course of the current election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 17 minutes ago, Toepoke said: What was up with the RISE guy? Curious to know as I've got the same list... Nothing that I know of. There are two good socialist candidates on the Labour list, albeit fairly far down. If it weren't for this I'd have had a look at RISE... I'll ask my Mrs when she's home as she voted Labour on the constituency (possibly due to the Labour candidate calling me a "pain in the arse" during the indyref) and Rise on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, kumnio said: Election night viewing wont be that interesting tonight, 2011 and 2015 were magic, this will be a let down. Watching the live updates online, it's the Labour v Tory contest that's most intriguing for me this time... Kezia's burd or Ruth's? Edited May 5, 2016 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 28 minutes ago, Scunnered said: I disagree. For supporters of independence an SNP minority supported by the smaller independence parties could be seen as progressive. A future independence campaign based on an SNP vision would be doomed to failure. In my humblest of all opinions. I think you are wrong on that. The people who need to be convinced in the next referendum are the soft no's, those people who don't have a fundamental aversion to independence but thought that the timing was wrong or it was too risky or were unconvinced by some of the arguments. They don't want "progressive" or "radical", you are talking about people who are essentially risk-averse. They want less risk, more assurance and better arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mazziessc said: 2XTory for me. Sadly what little confidence I had in the SNP has now completely gone. IMO they will win comfortably including here in West Dunbartonshire. I do however believe like me many of their strongest supporters are beginning to be come tired of their incapacity to lead and answer any remotely difficult questions. Slowly but surely they are being found out. Sadly not quick enough to change the course of the current election. Sadly, while some of that may be true, the other parties have done absolutely hee-haw to convince me they are any better. In fact, the worst criticism of the SNP is that they aren't radical enough. I actually have little issue with their competency which is why I continue to be a member and lend them my constituency vote. The Tories and Labour aren't even close to offering a credible and competent alternative and that should be taken far more seriously by the other parties that it is currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazziessc Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said: Sadly, while some of that may be true, the other parties have done absolutely hee-haw to convince me they are any better. In fact, the worst criticism of the SNP is that they aren't radical enough. I actually have little issue with their competency which is why I continue to be a member and lend them my constituency vote. The Tories and Labour aren't even close to offering a credible and competent alternative and that should be taken far more seriously by the other parties that it is currently. Pretty much my thinking in voting against them this time.They haven't gained any more ground going forward (its highly possible they will have less total votes)but no individual party is gaining on them significantly therefore my votes will go no way to changing the result. As much as I have no confidence in the SNP currently they have plenty of time to stem the tide and win back votes, hopefully including mine. If they are serious about a second referendum and a successful one they have to drop that as their front and focus on other areas to gain those votes. Starting with the NHS would help IMO. Then and only then should yes2 even be contemplated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Anybody any idea of when the results are expected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 58 minutes ago, Scunnered said: I disagree. For supporters of independence an SNP minority supported by the smaller independence parties could be seen as progressive. A future independence campaign based on an SNP vision would be doomed to failure. In my humblest of all opinions. I may on this occasion agree with you and wont be upset if that scenario happens SNP, Greens & Cat Boyd ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, aaid said: I think you are wrong on that. The people who need to be convinced in the next referendum are the soft no's, those people who don't have a fundamental aversion to independence but thought that the timing was wrong or it was too risky or were unconvinced by some of the arguments. They don't want "progressive" or "radical", you are talking about people who are essentially risk-averse. They want less risk, more assurance and better arguments. Yeah I can understand that. However I don't think you can build an independence campaign on the back of austerity and privatisation. In chasing soft no's you also risk alienating soft Yes's who backed Yes due to the progressive attitude of parts of the independence campaign. Not all people who voted Yes in the last referendum will automatically vote Yes if there is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: SNP, Greens & Cat Boyd ... It's a pity Cat Boyd is on the same list as Patrick Harvie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 47 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said: I agree. The SNP are cornering themselves. They've redefined "winning" a Scottish election as needing a majority, which means they are doomed to fail this year or 2021 because a majority is unsustainable. IMO, they're better taking the hit now, bringing Green's on board in some capacity and using them as a springboard to better governance. I've seen very little in the last 5 years that suggests the SNP need or deserve a majority and I've seen little that suggests they're ready to deal with the difficult unanswered questions from the referendum. The worst backward step IMO is another 5 years of SNP types playing it safe, toeing the leadership line and generally moralising about anyone who doesn't show blind faith and loyalty to the SNP party line. And I say that as an SNP member. Well said. Too many in the SNP fail to see the need to work with those in other parties and take the 'SNP good, everyone else bad' approach. And like you I'm a member of the SNP too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, Toepoke said: It's a pity Cat Boyd is on the same list as Patrick Harvie... The ardrossan and Saltcoats herald are saying something unbelievable has happened at one of the North Ayrshire polling stations, but they're holding it for next weeks paper. Wonder what it is. speaking of, I've been to the polling station twice so far, once for school run and another to take my mother in law to vote... I've never seen it so quiet. Ever. Just about to head down for school run again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Scunnered said: The ardrossan and Saltcoats herald are saying something unbelievable has happened at one of the North Ayrshire polling stations, but they're holding it for next weeks paper. Wonder what it is. speaking of, I've been to the polling station twice so far, once for school run and another to take my mother in law to vote... I've never seen it so quiet. Ever. Just about to head down for school run again. Glasgow Provan was probably the busiest I've seen it bar the referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) A unionist majority might not be so bad. As any time before 2020 is (IMHO) too early anyway for another crack at a referendum. Whereas having the disaster of Davidson or Dugdale (or Sarwar!) as First Minister might wake people the **** up as to what unionism really means and galvanise them for 2021. Wow, just imagine. Sarwar as FM, Boris as PM, Trump in the USA. It would be awful! Edited May 5, 2016 by Armchair Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said: Glasgow Provan was probably the busiest I've seen it bar the referendum Patricia Gibson growled at me when I walked past her at the door... Johanna Baxter growled at me when I passed her in the hall. Jamie Greene welcomed me. Such a nice young Tory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Scunnered said: Patricia Gibson growled at me when I walked past her at the door... Johanna Baxter growled at me when I passed her in the hall. Jamie Greene welcomed me. Such a nice young Tory. That's good to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said: That's good to hear Ah, but he's ginger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Scunnered said: Ah, but he's ginger. And it was all going so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Scunnered said: Jackie Baillie has my list vote. You're a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 39 minutes ago, Scunnered said: Yeah I can understand that. However I don't think you can build an independence campaign on the back of austerity and privatisation. In chasing soft no's you also risk alienating soft Yes's who backed Yes due to the progressive attitude of parts of the independence campaign. Not all people who voted Yes in the last referendum will automatically vote Yes if there is another. It's a tricky one but on balance I'd say there are a lot more soft no's that given the right economic conditions - for them - would shift than soft yes's that would vote no because the Yes offer wasn't radical enough. For that to happen the UK would have to represent a more progressive option than an independent Scotland and I don't see that happening any time in the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 3 hours ago, sbcmfc said: It's like we've all stopped giving a shit about politics again. Got a call last week to work in london and this is exactly how I feel and not bothered about voting in a county over half full of shitebags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Mazziessc said: Pretty much my thinking in voting against them this time.They haven't gained any more ground going forward (its highly possible they will have less total votes)but no individual party is gaining on them significantly therefore my votes will go no way to changing the result. As much as I have no confidence in the SNP currently they have plenty of time to stem the tide and win back votes, hopefully including mine. If they are serious about a second referendum and a successful one they have to drop that as their front and focus on other areas to gain those votes. Starting with the NHS would help IMO. Then and only then should yes2 even be contemplated. Pray tell what ground the tories have made going forward? The Scottish, remember that our NHS is different from the UKs NHS, is in a better shape than the rest of the UKs. The tories, who you voted for, have made a huge mess of the English NHS, as has the red tories in Wales. You seem to have voted for the tories who are hell bent on privatising the NHS, but criticise the SNP for doing a good job on our NHS. Confused.com or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 41 minutes ago, aaid said: For that to happen the UK would have to represent a more progressive option than an independent Scotland and I don't see that happening any time in the foreseeable future. Well again that depends on the economic conditions at the time of the vote. A vote for independence today would result in billions of pounds of cuts which could result in the destruction of public services. If economic conditions are similar at the time of another referendum, putting all eggs in the basket of a party who's governments haven't had public services as a priority could be an own goal, even among moderates. If the SNP of the next 5 years are propped up by the greens, I don't think Swinney will get his budgets passed in their default form which in itself would be a good thing, and certainly wouldn't damage any future independence arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Scunnered said: If the SNP of the next 5 years are propped up by the greens, I don't think Swinney will get his budgets passed in their default form which in itself would be a good thing, and certainly wouldn't damage any future independence arguments. If - if - the SNP doesn't have an overall majority, I don't see them having any sort of formal arrangement with the Greens. They've successfully run a minority government before and I'd think they'd do that again. The other side of the coin though, is if they do do some sort of deal with the Greens for a formal arrangement - what would the Greens ditch in order to get a seat at the table? I'd be inclined to think they'd get agreement on environmental and land reforms and they'll kick the economic stuff into the long grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, JasMc1973 said: Got a call last week to work in london and this is exactly how I feel and not bothered about voting in a county over half full of shitebags Yet you'd move to a city that's 90% tossbags?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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