The Final Humiliation Is Complete

[LewisEDI]

Even commentator for the denmark game couldnt help mentioning scotland no making it plus talking about when holland beat us 6-1 on aggregate.It jsut gets worse and its months till the tourney.

aye that got milked on and off for about 5 minutes, "van der vaart had a good night if i remember", "mmmm schneider too", "actually van nistelroy scored a hatrick! i should try and forget all this as i am actually of scottish heritage!!", at that point you could imagine him turning to his co commentator and doing the david brent pinochio jesture

Edited November 18, 2015 by LewisEDI

[deiseblue]

Just because you qualified playing clatty long-ball garbage doesn't mean we can't qualify playing decent passing football

Have you seen Iceland recently? with 1/20th of our population?

You just keep going along with your settling for second best attitude though, for all the jibes and trolls from you guys over the last 2 years the one thing I've never seen from you is the slightest hint of ambition.

The stats do not lie , when the Euros commence next year it will mark the passage of 18 years since Scotland last qualified for a major Tournament .

Since that time Ireland have qualified for a World Cup in 2002 (where once again we advanced from our group ) & two successive European Championships , we had a great team in 2002 & played some great football , more recently we have had to cut our coat according to our cloth as the standard of players is not what it has been in the past.

I would sincerely hope that my posts are not seen as " jibes & trolls " but as an argument that if you don't have the talent pool to advance by playing pretty , expansive football then you have to adopt a more pragmatic game plan in order to advance.

As for BraveheartGordon's avowed support for all our putative opponents may I say that I & the entire Nation are gutted to hear it , our anticipation levels have been duly tempered !!

[blackcountry jock]

Omg is anyone else fed up of hearing we hate Ireland comments, it just shows pure jealousy I'm a proud Scotsman and a very proud ta foot soldier I will be renewing my ssc membership as my two sons will be and even going to get my younger son one. But come on why all the bitterness toward roi they did what we failed to do is that the Irish fans fault no is it the Irish teams fault no it lies firmly at the feet of every single player that went to Georgia pure and simple.

Are Ireland a boring team to watch of course they are, do they care I gaurentee there is not one Irish fan sitting at home saying " we are a boring team wish we didn't qualify", the bottom line and the only statistic that matters is roi were good enough ( no matter how you look at it) to qualify and we wernt simple as get over it and look forward to the next campaign were we can try again. This forum is supposed to be a ta board it slowly turning into a lets slag everyone that is better than us board ???

[jailender]

^^^^^

This

[Mazziessc]

Lets' be honest here, Ireland played the worst of the football, im sure we all agree on that.

But the fact is, however bad the viewing was it was the right type to get their players of limited ability there.

That said when the main event comes round and they still choose to play like that they will be found out, and most likely quickly ejected.

Is it right for us to change the way we play and lump it? Im not sure. Our "better" football left us at home.

We are at a stage where getting there is all that matters.

If it means playing ugly football to get there so be it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Mazziessc

[teecee-]

In Scotland we have been indoctrinated into endorsing tippy tappy football as the way forward.

Be realistic we don't have enough skill for it.

I enjoy long ball football, nothing better than a Joe Jordan type

with a goalscorer beside picking up the scraps.

Add a couple of direct wingers and away we go.

[Charlie Endell]

In Scotland we have been indoctrinated into endorsing tippy tappy football as the way forward.

Be realistic we don't have enough skill for it.

I enjoy long ball football, nothing better than a Joe Jordan type

with a goalscorer beside picking up the scraps.

Add a couple of direct wingers and away we go.

^^^

Aye, give me the 'up and at 'em' approach to tippy-tappy intricate nonsense every time.

[scoobydoo]

Bitter jealousy still seeping out I see.

scotland have limited players, a limited manager and a shite, probably corrupt, organisaton running the game.

[teecee-]

^^^

Aye, give me the 'up and at 'em' approach to tippy-tappy intricate nonsense every time.

I remember the game at home to Spain, 2-0 down and going nowhere. We then

clattered one of their midfielders, crowd reacted and our players then got seriously stuck in.

Went to 2-2 and we only lost due to terrible error.

Bring back the hard, physical approach and ditch this over passing stuff.

[Mazziessc]

scotland have limited players, a limited manager and a shite, probably corrupt, organisaton running the game.

^^^^

All true but I dont see that being anything other than what Ireland have.

[Green_Tide_Rising]

^^^^

All true but I dont see that being anything other than what Ireland have.

Player wise not much of a difference between our two nations.

The one thing we do have in common is that we both have to choose from pools of players with limited to good ability.

While both our nations would like to play beautiful football against the bigger nations.....neither of our squads have the players to do so.

Both nations players have not been thought to play way that since underage and to try and get players or expect players who are in their mid 20's and 30s and who play for clubs like sunderland, sheffield wednesday, preston, derby , wolves , blackburn etc etc...to suddenly adapt to the more attractive style of play and get results against the bigger nations is just .....unrealistic.

The above is not knocking any player or club/team.....its just the unfortunate reality.

Scotland trying to play more entertaining football against the germanys of this world is to be admired but is it the answer to get results against them ......unfortunately not. The same applies to Ireland - we just could not do it and expect to get results against them as they would open us up and shred us to be bits....and what in gods name is to be gained for team morale and qualification by getting an absolute spanking...seriously!!!

The above problem is not going to be resolved over night nor in a campaign.....if both our nations want to play good football consistently and get consistent good results and qualify for tournaments...it will take years to resolve , but this comes with Investment by our respective F.A's. Investment in our underage structures and getting in the correct coaches who can teach the kids to not be afraid of putting the ball down and playing....to believe in their technical abilty ......but unfortunately it will just take time, money and patience. Scotland and Ireland have dropped the ball and have been left behind in technical terms behind other nations..... this is just the reality and needs to be accepted

While our style of play may not be pretty.....it is working as can be seen by our results

With regards to how Ireland played against Germany ......do you think Strachan would have taken note and maybe bring in a similar way of playing against the bigger nations for yere forthcoming W.C campaign?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising

[Marky]

I remember the game at home to Spain, 2-0 down and going nowhere. We then

clattered one of their midfielders, crowd reacted and our players then got seriously stuck in.

Went to 2-2 and we only lost due to terrible error.

Bring back the hard, physical approach and ditch this over passing stuff.

But we did make the error and we did lose, so in fact "clattering" players and hoofing the ball never actually achieved anything.

[stocky]

Bitter jealousy still seeping out I see.

scotland have limited players, a limited manager and a shite, probably corrupt, organisaton running the game.

first part true, second part is debatable

, Strachan won more at Celtic with less money that O neill,

third part is where the problem lies IMP,, a corrupt inept organisation ...

[radian_13]

Player wise not much of a difference between our two nations.

The one thing we do have in common is that we both have to choose from pools of players with limited to good ability.

While both our nations would like to play beautiful football against the bigger nations.....neither of our squads have the players to do so.

Both nations players have not been thought to play way that since underage and to try and get players or expect players who are in their mid 20's and 30s and who play for clubs like sunderland, sheffield wednesday, preston, derby , wolves , blackburn etc etc...to suddenly adapt to the more attractive style of play and get results against the bigger nations is just .....unrealistic.

The above is not knocking any player or club/team.....its just the unfortunate reality.

Scotland trying to play more entertaining football against the germanys of this world is to be admired but is it the answer to get results against them ......unfortunately not. The same applies to Ireland - we just could not do it and expect to get results against them as they would open us up and shred us to be bits....and what in gods name is to be gained for team morale and qualification by getting an absolute spanking...seriously!!!

The above problem is not going to be resolved over night nor in a campaign.....if both our nations want to play good football consistently and get consistent good results and qualify for tournaments...it will take years to resolve , but this comes with Investment by our respective F.A's. Investment in our underage structures and getting in the correct coaches who can teach the kids to not be afraid of putting the ball down and playing....to believe in their technical abilty ......but unfortunately it will just take time, money and patience. Scotland and Ireland have dropped the ball and have been left behind in technical terms behind other nations..... this is just the reality and needs to be accepted

While our style of play may not be pretty.....it is working as can be seen by our results

With regards to how Ireland played against Germany ......do you think Strachan would have taken note and maybe bring in a similar way of playing against the bigger nations for yere forthcoming W.C campaign?

Bloody hope he has haha! I agree it's about finding a system that suits your players rather than asking the players to fit into a system they aren't used to. Simplify things and if that means park the bus a wee bit, hard to score against, be physical and route one then so be it. End of the day it's about getting to tournaments not about looking good and not getting anywhere. We tried to play nice on the eye football and finished 4th so clearly our players aren't good enough for that.

[Dave78]

The style of play under Strachan is fine.

Even O'Neill has recognised that these days you need to play with 3 central midfielders and try to actually pass the ball, rather than the rigid 442 long-ball 'Trapattoni with a Donegal accent' stuff he started with.

Scotland's failing was in the quality of our defenders. If we'd had Ireland's back 4 we'd have qualified no problem.

[munro7]

I think some of the arguments are a little simplistic. It's not like we went 2-3-5 against Germany, we were very defensive for much of the game, largely by default.

Similarly it's not like Ireland prevented Germany from creating anything. I didn't see the whole game but on another day Germany win that game comfortably.

It's fine margins, and I think Strachan's idea is to have us fairly compact with a view to pace on the counter and to be honest I'm another who would rather see that than shitfesting a game and hoping for something from a free kick or corner.

Yes, by all means play to your strengths but there's no harm in having a little ambition either. I actually still think our biggest problem is mentality but that's a different discussion!

[Green_Tide_Rising]

The style of play under Strachan is fine.

Even O'Neill has recognised that these days you need to play with 3 central midfielders and try to actually pass the ball, rather than the rigid 442 long-ball 'Trapattoni with a Donegal accent' stuff he started with.

Scotland's failing was in the quality of our defenders. If we'd had Ireland's back 4 we'd have qualified no problem.

If we had tried to play like Scotland did against Germany we would have lost ...even with our back 4

P.S O'Neill is a Derry man not a Donegal man

[liammccarthy]

They're not healthier or better educated. They're only slightly less of a 'fat c#nt' nation that us. But that's due to the sport bit. Their education system is pretty mediocre but I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything anyway. Roy keane certainly didn't experience much of it.

I think confidence and a sense of nationhood is the biggest difference. Scotland doesn't have either of those.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irelands-collegegoing-numbers-among-the-best-in-europe-34205907.html

I think this covers the bit in your post about education !!! from a biased teacher of course

Edited November 18, 2015 by liammccarthy

[Dave78]

If we had tried to play like Scotland did against Germany we would have lost ...even with our back 4

Maybe.

Looking at the goals Scotland lost over there, they could have been prevented with better defenders. Certainly the 2nd one, which was just schoolboy stuff. The Irish defence would never conceed a goal like that IMO.

P.S O'Neill is a Derry man not a Donegal man

Ahh, i mis-remembered the quote!

[JamesMcC]

On a personal level I feel sicker today than I did after Georgia.

Last night I couldnt bare to watch, waited till after FT before even checking the score.

Well done to Ireland by the way, credit where its due.

The pain of not getting there is enough but its the fact watching home nations and not so home nations if you like getting there, and the enjoyment they are gonna have next year if any of us can even bare to put the box on.

Then theres the pain of thinking are they actually better than us? Northern Ireland? No disrespect but no they ain't pure and simple. Ireland? Level with us AT BEST. Gareth Bales? On recent performances ofcourse. Minus him? Average, every bit as average as us.

Not too mention the other so called "WEE" teams that will be competeing.

I spent a small fortune on Euro finals tickets in the hope that I'd get lucky and have tickets for one of our games. Do I get rid of them or head over there and suffer the embarrasment still further? Time will tell.

Bottom line? All part of being a Scotland fan.

If you have any spares for Irish games I would love to start the bidding

[JamesMcC]

Scotland should be better than Ireland because we have relatively strong and well supported clubs. Ireland, as far as I can see, rely on England developing young players for them, or at least giving them competitive football. Likewise Wales.

In fact, how come Ireland are as strong as they are? Are they doing something with youth development that we're not?

Ireland grassroots is shocking, provably one of the worst systems in Europe. We're a sports mad country and have to compete with Gaelic sports which is massive. If gaelic sports didnt exist we probably would have a real good footballing nation a la Croatia.

Our national clubs are awful. Only one or two would finish in bottom half of the SPL I recon

[coybig2015]

we took 4 points from the world champions and top seeds. Then beat Bosnia who were top seeds in their group (they were also the highest ranked in world ranking of teams that made it to the play off). The group we were in was obviously tough and it looked to be a 3 horse race for second and third spot. Scotland did look to be on a good run and have their s**t together, but there was one reason I fancied Ireland to beat finish ahead of them in the group and think some of your fans "oh we will have the republic" etc was OTT and misplaced arrogance. We are consistently there or thereabouts come the end of qualifying, we have decent pedigree in that regard. Scotland have been nowhere since '98. It would have been amazing to have all of the "home nations" and Ireland there...

I reckon we are going to be tough for anyone to beat, I feel the "bigger teams" Spain and Germany, arent what they were in 2012... Also that year we ended up in a group with 2 eventual finalists. Given also made a few uncharacteristic mistakes, that had he been his usual self, would have resulted in the hidings, being beatings. It was just one of those campaigns where nothing went right for us. Trappatoni having no faith in the players, what good does that do for morale etc?

Edited November 18, 2015 by coybig2015

[BraveheartGordon]

The stats do not lie , when the Euros commence next year it will mark the passage of 18 years since Scotland last qualified for a major Tournament .

Since that time Ireland have qualified for a World Cup in 2002 (where once again we advanced from our group ) & two successive European Championships , we had a great team in 2002 & played some great football , more recently we have had to cut our coat according to our cloth as the standard of players is not what it has been in the past.

I would sincerely hope that my posts are not seen as " jibes & trolls " but as an argument that if you don't have the talent pool to advance by playing pretty , expansive football then you have to adopt a more pragmatic game plan in order to advance.

As for BraveheartGordon's avowed support for all our putative opponents may I say that I & the entire Nation are gutted to hear it , our anticipation levels have been duly tempered !!

The fact that its been 18 years is irrelevant when we've only tried to play attractive football for one campaign...

Levein lined us up without a striker for god sake, some on here have short memories.

[Robroysboy]

Oh its not that bad - just think - you will have an excuse to open a "Lets hope Ireland get the worst Group Possible" thread

[thewelk]

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irelands-collegegoing-numbers-among-the-best-in-europe-34205907.html

I think this covers the bit in your post about education !!! from a biased teacher of course

A lot of them go to college but that doesn't mean it's a good level! It's not bad at all but I honestly think the scottish system is at a higher level. But then I'm probably not comparing like for like. Anyway, education isn't a factor in this argument!