usainboltyarocket Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 In my life time McLeish IMO. Brown is part of the reason why we haven't qualified in so long. He left no legacy with the exception of leaving a "get what you can" policy which is used to this day. Young Scottish players whether good enough or not should never have been left out for Quashie, Matteo, Sullivan etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWM 71 not out. Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think there are too many variables at play to be able to give an answer that I could defend to the hilt. However, if the question was -Who was my favourite manager? - then the answer would be Ally MacLeod. Under MacLeod the football was good but equally important, it was also fun! I bought into the Argentina hype big style and although the end result was painful I still look back fondly at those crazy days. It took until 2014 before a European side lifted the World Cup in Latin America but somehow ebullient Ally convinced much of Scotland that we would do the trick in 1978. He also convinced the Royal Mail who designed a celebratory stamp in readiness for us coming home with the trophy. I know my views are somewhat 'romantic' but sometimes you need a bit of escapism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allyc Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Pa broon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Pa broon..... nearly took us to Japan in 2002, thank goodness he never I would probually be still paying it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Sunnylaw Jag Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 In my life time McLeish IMO. Brown is part of the reason why we haven't qualified in so long. He left no legacy with the exception of leaving a "get what you can" policy which is used to this day. Young Scottish players whether good enough or not should never have been left out for Quashie, Matteo, Sullivan etc. Wasn't Matteo Scottish, born in Dumfries although he did qualify for England too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think there are too many variables at play to be able to give an answer that I could defend to the hilt. However, if the question was -Who was my favourite manager? - then the answer would be Ally MacLeod. Under MacLeod the football was good but equally important, it was also fun! I bought into the Argentina hype big style and although the end result was painful I still look back fondly at those crazy days. It took until 2014 before a European side lifted the World Cup in Latin America but somehow ebullient Ally convinced much of Scotland that we would do the trick in 1978. He also convinced the Royal Mail who designed a celebratory stamp in readiness for us coming home with the trophy. I know my views are somewhat 'romantic' but sometimes you need a bit of escapism. Totally agree with that. That was without doubt, in my mind anyway, the best time to be a Scotland supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 In my life time McLeish IMO. Brown is part of the reason why we haven't qualified in so long. He left no legacy with the exception of leaving a "get what you can" policy which is used to this day. Young Scottish players whether good enough or not should never have been left out for Quashie, Matteo, Sullivan etc. To suggest Brown is somehow responsible for us not qualifying since 98 is utterly bizarre. That can be laid solely at the clubs and sfa door for the complete lack of investment in youth and facilities during the nineties and noughties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argentina78 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I loved the enthusiasm that Ally MacLeod had and he truly had us all believe we could do anything. He got it wrong v Peru, who he thought were has beens, but Cubillas and Chumpitas proved him way wrong sadly. He also was unlucky losing McGrain and McQueen to injury prior to the finals and was possibly too loyal giving Masson and Rioch a game over Gemmell and Souness. I guess it's easy in hindsight but I still look back on that time as believing that Scotland were up among the big boys of football. Strachan is brilliant as a motivator and also so media savvy, and I'm just glad that we've finally got the right man in charge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I loved the enthusiasm that Ally MacLeod had and he truly had us all believe we could do anything. Before my time, but that seems to be the one thing that stands MacLeod out to the rest...... basically saying we are not going out there to make up the numbers, while Stein, Roxbugh and Brown had a "steady, steady" approach of "it will be hard, but we might just sneak it!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 But their attitude was also because of Ally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Here's a breakdown of all the managers who managed to take us to a major tournament. Games won is the number of game we won in major tournaments. Craig Brown Win % 45 Qualifications 2 Games won 1 Home Championship wins N/A Andy Roxburgh Win % 38 Qualifications 2 Games won 2 Home Championship wins N/A Jock Stein Win % 43 Qualifications 2 Games won 1 Home Championship wins 0 Ally MacLeod Win % 41 Qualifications 1 Games won 1 Home Championship wins 1 Willie Ormond Win % 47 Qualifications 1 Games won 1 Home Championship wins 1 Edited April 20, 2015 by davew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you put all the wins together it's still less games than it takes to win 1 World Cup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Here's a table based on the number of ELO ranking points Scotland had after the manager's last game in charge Ormond MacLeod Stein Docherty McLeish Roxburgh Smith Craig Brown Bobby Brown Burley Levein Vogts I'm starting to think Ormond has a good claim to be best manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Here's a table based on the number of ELO ranking points Scotland had after the manager's last game in charge Ormond MacLeod Stein Docherty McLeish Roxburgh Smith Craig Brown Bobby Brown Burley Levein Vogts I'm starting to think Ormond has a good claim to be best manager Seriously? There were probably around half as many members of FIFA when Ormond was manager as there are now and the bulk of nations are better than now that they were 40 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Seriously? There were probably around half as many members of FIFA when Ormond was manager as there are now and the bulk of nations are better than now that they were 40 years ago. It's not an easy question to answer is it? It was different back then, but beating England 2 out of 5 times, and winning 1, drawing 2 at a World cup is respectable. Most of the games back then were against England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Not exactly easy games to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnpauls Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I loved the enthusiasm that Ally MacLeod had and he truly had us all believe we could do anything. He got it wrong v Peru, who he thought were has beens, but Cubillas and Chumpitas proved him way wrong sadly. He also was unlucky losing McGrain and McQueen to injury prior to the finals and was possibly too loyal giving Masson and Rioch a game over Gemmell and Souness. I guess it's easy in hindsight but I still look back on that time as believing that Scotland were up among the big boys of football. Strachan is brilliant as a motivator and also so media savvy, and I'm just glad that we've finally got the right man in charge Agreed it was a brilliant time to be a Scotland fan. Not only was Ally infectiously enthusiastic, but he was funny, articulate, intelligent and kind. Did he really think Peru were pushovers, though? Everyone has always said that, but I'm not sure of the source of it, though I believe it might have been players who said that sort of thing rather than him on the night of the draw:Ally MacLeod "The draw gives us a good chance, especially as we have Peru and Iran first. I did not want to play the seeded side first, no matter what group we were in. I could not have asked for better. We will be based in Cordoba and the hotel there is excellent. Only the 22 players and myself can let the country down now and I don't think we will. Scotland have a bit of a reputation for struggling against the so called lesser lights, but the squad this time is very professional." Captain Bruce Rioch said; "It is a marvellous draw... We could be through to the last eight before we meet Holland.", Don Masson added; "Scotland are certainties to go through along with Holland." Rioch had an excellent game in the classic against Holland, but he and Masson had definitely been off form that season. Edited April 20, 2015 by mcnpauls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wine bibber Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) For me if you take into account the attractive football Scotland played at that time also,then Ormond comes out on top.Other teams before him had underachieved and when you consider the quality of talent available the managers must take the blame .Ormond's skill was to recognise where the players themselves wanted to play on the park and keep complex tactics and over analysis of the opposition to a minimum .He was a good motivator and was well respected. Ironically i think Stein has a lot more to answer for our current position in world football than many might think.He was too realistic ,too pragmatic ,too honest and played to our wee nation status.Okay we had to come down from our delusions of grandeur after Argentina ,but we came down too far and in recent years slipped into delusions of adequacy.Scotland is a nation that performs best when up against skillful opponents from big established footballing nations.We are a footballing parody of our history with an" i'l show you "and" who the f@ck are they attitudes" That's who we are .We can't just rely on good fitness ,tactical versatility solid professionalism with a mixture of experience and youth.We have to get that maverick confident belief in ourselves back and there is no reason why we can't become another Denmark or Uruguay .I think Strachan understands this.He might become our best manager yet , and with less natural talent to choose from. Edited April 20, 2015 by Wine bibber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 For me if you take into account the attractive football Scotland played at that time also,then Ormond comes out on top.Other teams before him had underachieved and when you consider the quality of talent available the managers must take the blame .Ormond's skill was to recognise where the players themselves wanted to play on the park and keep complex tactics and over analysis of the opposition to a minimum .He was a good motivator and was well respected. Ironically i think Stein has a lot more to answer for our current position in world football than many might think.He was too realistic ,too pragmatic ,too honest and played to our wee nation status.Okay we had to come down from our delusions of grandeur after Argentina ,but we came down too far and in recent years slipped into delusions of adequacy.Scotland is a nation that performs best when up against skillful opponents from big established footballing nations.We are a footballing parody of our history with an" i'l show you "and" who the f@ck are they attitudes" That's who we are .We can't just rely on good fitness ,tactical versatility solid professionalism with a mixture of experience and youth.We have to get that maverick confident belief in ourselves back and there is no reason why we can't become another Denmark or Uruguay .I think Strachan understands this.He might become our best manager yet , and with less natural talent to choose from. I'm not sure how much we should blame the managers prior to the 74 WC. Before that time the manager didn't pick the team, that was done by a selection committee. Tommy Doc was the first manager who was allowed to pick the team. It was one of the conditions he insisted upon before he agreed to take the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Scotland is a nation that performs best when up against skillful opponents from big established footballing nations. That's an urban myth with plenty of evidence to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'm starting to think Ormond has a good claim to be best managerI'm no' coming back though. Unless you pay my travelling time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Alex McLeish - in terms of the players he had vs the results he worked wonders. Not in a rush to get him back all the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I got Andy Roxburgh's autograph at the Kelburne Cinema in Paisley when I was queuing up to see Big Foot & The Henderson s so I'd say him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) I got Andy Roxburgh's autograph at the Kelburne Cinema in Paisley when I was queuing up to see Big Foot & The Henderson s so I'd say him. That's probably the best reason yet. Fergie would probably have telt you tae fuk off and Willie Ormond would have been too pished to say anything never mind sign an autograph. Edited April 21, 2015 by Orraloon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcumnock Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Andy rox ,after 3_0 humpin in Paris (all Steve Nichols fault ) Andy sent the full team back out to applaud us ,nice touch by him . Still got fukkin beat though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 wc 74 qualifying group was czechs and the 'formidable' danish danes beating czechs effectively meant we had to screw up to not qualify we even had the luxury of losing way to czechs 5 centre halves Brown is likely the best pre strachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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