Scotland Players In Action

[ErsatzThistle]

Yep unfortunately this is the case.

It doesn't matter if the Under 21's have a game the same day - Full squad should always take priotiry as Under 21 caps mean nothing. All too often players gain many Under 21 caps then turn out about as much use to the full national team as David Wotherspoon, Ross Perry & Dylan McGeouch.

Aye, Billy Stark really knew how to pick em, you can add no hopers such as Steven Lennon, Calum Elliot, Chris Mitchell, Tam Scobbie and Stephen McGinn to that list.

[ProudScot]

Aye, Billy Stark really knew how to pick em, you can add no hopers such as Steven Lennon, Calum Elliot, Chris Mitchell, Tam Scobbie and Stephen McGinn to that list.

And about 100 others.

Kieran Tierney is an example - Seems to have potential, regular for Celtic, lets see how he gets on in a friendly rather than putting him in the Under 21's and picking Steven Whittaker again. Tried and tested, and very average utility player who we can call on if we need to - Which we don't in a set of experimental friendlies.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ProudScot

[aaid]

Aye, Billy Stark really knew how to pick em, you can add no hopers such as Steven Lennon, Calum Elliot, Chris Mitchell, Tam Scobbie and Stephen McGinn to that list.

Stephen McGinn was progressing really well at Watford until he did his cruciate and he was out for 18 months, when he came back, the club had changed ownership and was completely different. A set of circumstances that had nothing to do with his ability as a player.

[ErsatzThistle]

Stephen McGinn was progressing really well at Watford until he did his cruciate and he was out for 18 months, when he came back, the club had changed ownership and was completely different. A set of circumstances that had nothing to do with his ability as a player.

I never saw what was so special about McGinn. The same goes for the mighty John Fleck.

Chris Maguire's another one like McGinn, he went through the odd period of good form for Aberdeen and Sheffield Wednesday but he was never good enough for international football.

Billy Stark was one awful judge of players.

[PASTA Mick]

Aye, Billy Stark really knew how to pick em, you can add no hopers such as Steven Lennon, Calum Elliot, Chris Mitchell, Tam Scobbie and Stephen McGinn to that list.

I've always been one of Starks biggest critics but the under 21s is always going to have a number of players that never make it to the first team. Indeed we should be looking at 3-4 of every intake making the step up. That would lead to a good, well-balanced first team squad.

[ErsatzThistle]

I've always been one of Starks biggest critics but the under 21s is always going to have a number of players that never make it to the first team. Indeed we should be looking at 3-4 of every intake making the step up. That would lead to a good, well-balanced first team squad.

That's obvious about the number of players who make it but Stark rarely cast his net beyond the Old Firm reserves and he also had a hard on for below average Falkirk players for some reason.

He also never seemed much interested in scouting English clubs for players. Only ever seemed to be two or three English based Scots based in his teams despite a quick scan of squad lists showing that there were usually a number about the place.

[aaid]

That's obvious about the number of players who make it but Stark rarely cast his net beyond the Old Firm reserves and he also had a hard on for below average Falkirk players for some reason.

He also never seemed much interested in scouting English clubs for players. Only ever seemed to be two or three English based Scots based in his teams despite a quick scan of squad lists showing that there were usually a number about the place.

Since you are so find of lists, how about a list of the potential U21 players that Billy Stark should have picked instead of the "no hopers" he picked.

[ErsatzThistle]

Since you are so find of lists, how about a list of the potential U21 players that Billy Stark should have picked instead of the "no hopers" he picked.

Can't be arsed. There.

[ProudScot]

Since you are so find of lists, how about a list of the potential U21 players that Billy Stark should have picked instead of the "no hopers" he picked.

It's not a huge criticism as it's just people's opinion on who should be in and who shoudn't be - You do find with Under 21 squads that all too often there are players ommitted bizzarely and players who are either not playing at all or way off ever having the potential to reach international standard included.

Stark was bad for the above and Sbragia has continued this trend also.

[aaid]

It's not a huge criticism as it's just people's opinion on who should be in and who shoudn't be - You do find with Under 21 squads that all too often there are players ommitted bizzarely and players who are either not playing at all or way off ever having the potential to reach international standard included.

Stark was bad for the above and Sbragia has continued this trend also.

I'm certainly no fan of Stark nor Sbragia but I really don't believe that either are fundamentally guilty of picking the wrong players for their squads - what they do with the players when they have them is another matter. As you point out its very often an objective view and people will often favour players from their own clubs which is entirely natural for lots of reasons. I think this is a bit more prevalent at U21 level as players generally have a lower profile and so will not be as well known to the fanbase in general which leads to people overplaying the case of one of their favourites and perhaps not being as aware of the talents of the alternatives.

Too many times you see the argument being applied - Player 'X' is no better than player 'Y', so why isn't he getting a chance?

With the exception of James McCarthy which still really annoys me - I'm convinced McCarthy would've rather played for Scotland, McGeady I suspect was always keen on Ireland - I really can't see that many occasions of them getting selection in the youth ranks badly wrong.

The real problem is the lack of decent young talent being produced and more importantly that so many promising U21 players just completely fail to progress through to full international level. There will always be players that fall by the wayside because of injury or just because while they were good at age group football but never kicked on but we just don't seem to be bringing any players through. That lies with the clubs and the players, not with the SFA, IMHO - they can only work with the players available.

The last decent crop of young players we had was the group that went to the U20 world cup in Canada. That group had Stephen Fletcher, Robert Snodgrass, Graeme Dorrans, Lee Wallace and Gary Kenneth who were capped at A level - although the least said about the last one the better. They're all around 28/29 now. Its no real surprise our average age in the last campaign was 29.

I've always though that your ideal team of ten outfield players - you can discount goalkeepers as its a specialist position - should consist of 2-3 players below the age of 24, 2-3 players aged 29 and over and then the bulk of your players between 24 and 29 which is generally when players are at their peak.

If you look at the squad called up for the last two matches - Poland and Gib - of 18 outfield players, there was 1 player below the age of 24, just 1, Andrew Robertson. There were 9 that were 25 and over.

Again, I'm not convinced that Strachan is calling up the wrong players - I just don't see who is better or at least as good and younger than the current set of players.

[ProudScot]

I'm certainly no fan of Stark nor Sbragia but I really don't believe that either are fundamentally guilty of picking the wrong players for their squads - what they do with the players when they have them is another matter. As you point out its very often an objective view and people will often favour players from their own clubs which is entirely natural for lots of reasons. I think this is a bit more prevalent at U21 level as players generally have a lower profile and so will not be as well known to the fanbase in general which leads to people overplaying the case of one of their favourites and perhaps not being as aware of the talents of the alternatives.

Too many times you see the argument being applied - Player 'X' is no better than player 'Y', so why isn't he getting a chance?

With the exception of James McCarthy which still really annoys me - I'm convinced McCarthy would've rather played for Scotland, McGeady I suspect was always keen on Ireland - I really can't see that many occasions of them getting selection in the youth ranks badly wrong.

The real problem is the lack of decent young talent being produced and more importantly that so many promising U21 players just completely fail to progress through to full international level. There will always be players that fall by the wayside because of injury or just because while they were good at age group football but never kicked on but we just don't seem to be bringing any players through. That lies with the clubs and the players, not with the SFA, IMHO - they can only work with the players available.

The last decent crop of young players we had was the group that went to the U20 world cup in Canada. That group had Stephen Fletcher, Robert Snodgrass, Graeme Dorrans, Lee Wallace and Gary Kenneth who were capped at A level - although the least said about the last one the better. They're all around 28/29 now. Its no real surprise our average age in the last campaign was 29.

I've always though that your ideal team of ten outfield players - you can discount goalkeepers as its a specialist position - should consist of 2-3 players below the age of 24, 2-3 players aged 29 and over and then the bulk of your players between 24 and 29 which is generally when players are at their peak.

If you look at the squad called up for the last two matches - Poland and Gib - of 18 outfield players, there was 1 player below the age of 24, just 1, Andrew Robertson. There were 9 that were 25 and over.

Again, I'm not convinced that Strachan is calling up the wrong players - I just don't see who is better or at least as good and younger than the current set of players.

I see what you're saying - There are instances though where you can try, in friendlies such as these, which are experiemental and aimed at unearthing a new player/learning more about the players we have where you can swap a squad regular who is either old or a fairly tried and tested average player for a young player;

Greer, Whittaker, Brown etc out

Cooper, Tierney, Watt etc in

[ErsatzThistle]

Hamilton's James McArthur (two caps), Clyde and Killie's Craig Bryson (one cap), Chelsea's Liam Bridcutt (zero) and Portsmouth's Matt Ritchie (zero).

This man genuinely rated pish players like Ross Campbell (six caps), Kevin McCann (four caps), Lewis Stevenson (eight caps) and Rocco Quinn (nine caps).

Stark is a failure.

[aaid]

Hamilton's James McArthur (two caps), Clyde and Killie's Craig Bryson (one cap), Chelsea's Liam Bridcutt (zero) and Portsmouth's Matt Ritchie (zero).

This man genuinely rated pish players like Ross Campbell (six caps), Kevin McCann (four caps), Lewis Stevenson (eight caps) and Rocco Quinn (nine caps).

Stark is a failure.

I doubt Bridcutt and Ritchie were Scottish then

Edited January 14, 2016 by aaid

[ErsatzThistle]

I doubt Bridcutt and Ritchie were Scottish then

Maybe not Bridcutt but Ritchie's eligibility was definitely known about back then. I remember reading in the paper that he was eligible and I named him as being a possible call up shortly before he was called up.

Matt Ritchie was definetly known about, however there were Old Firm reserves to consider ...........

[aaid]

Maybe not Bridcutt but Ritchie's eligibility was definitely known about back then. I remember reading in the paper that he was eligible and I named him as being a possible call up shortly before he was called up.

That's utter bull.

[ErsatzThistle]

That's utter bull.

Ritchie was known about. Circa 2009 there was an article in one of our papers, either the Record or the Evening Times about him being eligible. He was at Portsmouth then.

[aaid]

Ritchie was known about. Circa 2009 there was an article in one of our papers, either the Record or the Evening Times about him being eligible. He was at Portsmouth then.

Provide a link then.

Anyway, even if it were true he was playing in the lower reaches of English football then, no-one would have looked twice at him.

Like Ikechi Anya, he's the exception that prove the rule, players who don't shine early in their careers and through a combination of hard work, determination and joining a club on the up have made it.

[ErsatzThistle]

Provide a link then.

Anyway, even if it were true he was playing in the lower reaches of English football then, no-one would have looked twice at him.

Like Ikechi Anya, he's the exception that prove the rule, players who don't shine early in their careers and through a combination of hard work, determination and joining a club on the up have made it.

Do you really think I'm sad enough to spend an hour scouring the web for that ? Find it yourself, if it matters so much to you.

[er yir macaroon]

If the u21s are trying to qualify for a finals where they'd get experience of international tournament football, it's probably better than 10 minutes in a friendly with the first team. Strachan brought Robertson almost straight into the full team because he was good enough, I suspect if others were good enough he'd have done the same.

[Rory]

Islam Feruz has been sent back to Chelsea early I believe

[ProudScot]

If the u21s are trying to qualify for a finals where they'd get experience of international tournament football, it's probably better than 10 minutes in a friendly with the first team. Strachan brought Robertson almost straight into the full team because he was good enough, I suspect if others were good enough he'd have done the same.

Funny how pretty much all other nations don't follow that rule and regularly include teenagers in their full sides for friendlies yet we don't.

I guess we have been so successful that we should continue as we have been going...

Besides we should be genuinly blooding these players and trying them out rather than giving them 10 minutes of football. Also the experience of being around the full squad and international set up is very important.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ProudScot

[ErsatzThistle]

Funny how pretty much all other nations don't follow that rule and regularly include teenagers in their full sides for friendlies yet we don't.

I guess we have been so successful that we should continue as we have been going...

Besides we should be genuinly blooding these players and trying them out rather than giving them 10 minutes of football. Also the experience of being around the full squad and international set up is very important.

Steady now ! That kind of dangerous radical talk would cause Craig Brown and Billy Stark to pass out !

[sheffieldblue]

Barry Bannan just signed a three and a half year extension to his contract at Hillsborough. He says he is loving here since the first minute he arrived (its mutual by the way).

A settled, happy Bannan playing regular football can only be of benefit to the National side

[Robroysboy]

Islam Feruz has been sent back to Chelsea early I believe

Wee spoiled brat who sh@t on celtic and Scotland. Can we deport him ?

[fringo]

Barry Bannan just signed a three and a half year extension to his contract at Hillsborough. He says he is loving here since the first minute he arrived (its mutual by the way).

A settled, happy Bannan playing regular football can only be of benefit to the National side