Churchill - A Farewell

[Toepoke]

Absolutely spot on. Churchill's many mistakes and shortcomings are masked by his outstanding leadership in WW2. No other politician of the time had the foresight to see what was coming or the courage to stand firm. 'Peace in our time' would have become capitulation without Churchill. A heartless, flawed man, but outstanding war-time leader.

Agreed. Robert the Bruce could be a nasty piece of work too, but he saved Scotland.

Can't get this one out ma head now...

[ErsatzThistle]

he did a fair stint out in the trenches serving with a Highland regiment ; black watch i think ?

It was the 6th Scots Fusiliers he was with.

He was with them for just over five months before he went back to London. The sector of the front line they were in during Churchill's time with them was relatively quiet and they never went over the top or anything like that.

Churchill hated wearing the Glengarry according to his second in command, Archibald Sinclair, who later became leader of the Liberal party.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

It was the 6th Scots Fusiliers he was with.

He was with them for just over five months before he went back to London. The sector of the front line they were in during Churchill's time with them was relatively quiet and they never went over the top or anything like that.

Churchill hated wearing the Glengarry according to his second in command, Archibald Sinclair, who later became leader of the Liberal party.

ok , cheers for clarification

- watched it last night , but forgotten regiment already

said he wore a french tin hat - was photos of him

- suggested he understood the fighting man ; looked at de-lousing as one of priorities

it said he went into no mans land about 40 times - mostly for barbed wire inspections as opposed to trench raids etc

his dugout was bombed/destroyed one day when he was asked to meet with another officer

i would suspect a 'quiet' sector on the western front still to be well outside most peoples idea of a cushy life

[ErsatzThistle]

ok , cheers for clarification

- watched it last night , but forgotten regiment already

said he wore a french tin hat - was photos of him

- suggested he understood the fighting man ; looked at de-lousing as one of priorities

it said he went into no mans land about 40 times - mostly for barbed wire inspections as opposed to trench raids etc

his dugout was bombed/destroyed one day when he was asked to meet with another officer

i would suspect a 'quiet' sector on the western front still to be well outside most peoples idea of a cushy life

He wasn't really any different from at least half the infantry officers then. Nothing special. In contrast to guys like Siegfried Sassoon or Dominic McCarthy who routinely went through hell for their lads.

Compared to the hellish carnage that other British, Commonwealth, French, Belgian and German soldiers were going through at the time Churchill was with the 6th RSF, it was a quiet sector.

Tories need to get off their high horse and admit he was a deeply flawed individual and certainly not the great PM we're conned into believing by the media and even at school.

By contrast in France, they quite openly discuss De Gaulle's many failures rather than sweeping them under the carpet like we do with Churchill.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

He wasn't really any different from at least half the infantry officers then. Nothing special. In contrast to guys like Siegfried Sassoon or Dominic McCarthy who routinely went through hell for their lads.

Compared to the hellish carnage that other British, Commonwealth, French, Belgian and German soldiers were going through at the time Churchill was with the 6th RSF, it was a quiet sector.

Tories need to get off their high horse and admit he was a deeply flawed individual and certainly not the great PM we're conned into believing by the media and even at school.

By contrast in France, they quite openly discuss De Gaulle's many failures rather than sweeping them under the carpet like we do with Churchill.

agree with you on that ; re media etc

but same biased views are pretty obvious on this board ; virtually every thread leads back to politics , MSM conspiracy

Denis Law being a great player ; but still suggestion that he is a unionist etc

anyone who doesn't buy into the yes vote mentality is targeted

[Robroysboy]

I was supprised to learn that Churchill was an Member of Parliament for dundee of all places.

[Wibble]

Burn the qunt - set fire tae tha body; compact the ashes and fire it intae the moon - He hated us poor qunts.

Hope he's burning i the fires of hell.

Ft,

[thorbotnic]

His best work was done during the Asquith government

[EddardStark]

A very complex character. In the context of what we faced in the early days of the war then he deserves credit . Outside of that thrre is not that much to endear him to the working man. Some of his speeches though are inspiring.

Edited February 1, 2015 by EddardStark

[Gaz]

you want to try again ?

why?

Are you a no voter?

[Rossy]

agree with you on that ; re media etc

but same biased views are pretty obvious on this board ; virtually every thread leads back to politics , MSM conspiracy

Denis Law being a great player ; but still suggestion that he is a unionist etc

anyone who doesn't buy into the yes vote mentality is targeted

You also have the other side of the coin. The day after the documentary you've got the uber right-wing....and Hitler supporting....Daily Mail up in arms because the BBC dared to broadcast something that amounted to a slight criticism of Churchill.

It seems that those who would have him Sainted because of the 2nd world war would prefer to have other aspects of history airbrushed out.

[stocky]

On this day (Feb1st) in 1919 10,000 English Troops invaded Scotland on the orders of Winston Churchill (real name Winston Spencer). Scottish workers were fighting for a 40 hour week.

On Friday 31 January 1919 upwards of 60,000 demonstrators gathered in George Square in support of the 40-hours strike and to hear the Lord Provost's reply to the workers' request for a 40-hour week. Whilst the deputation was in the building the police mounted a vicious and unprovoked attack on the demonstrators, felling unarmed men and women with their batons. The demonstrators, with the ex-servicemen to the fore, quickly retaliated with fists, iron railings and broken bottles, and forced the police into a retreat.

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On hearing the noise from the square the strike leaders, who were meeting with the Lord Provost, rushed outside to restore order. One of the leaders, David Kirkwood, was felled to the ground by a police baton, and along with William Gallacher was arrested by the police.

Image thumbnail
After the initial confrontation between the demonstrators and the police in George Square, further fighting continued in and around the city centre streets for many hours afterwards. The Townhead area of the city and Glasgow Green, where many of the demonstrators had regrouped after the initial police charge, were the scenes of running battles between police and demonstrators.

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In the immediate aftermath of 'Bloody Friday', as it became known, other leaders of the Clyde Workers' Committee were also arrested, including Emanuel Shinwell, Harry Hopkins and George Edbur

Government concerns about industrial militancy and revolutionary political activity in Glasgow reached new heights after the events of 31 January 1919. Fears within government of a workers' revolution in Glasgow led to the deployment of troops and tanks in the city.

An estimated 10000 English troops in total were sent to Glasgow in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of George Square. This was in spite of a full battalion of Scottish soldiers being stationed at Maryhill barracks in Glasgow at the time. No Scottish troops were deployed, with the government fearing that fellow Scots, soldiers or otherwise, would go over to the workers side if a revolutionary situation developed in Glasgow.

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On 10 February 1919 the 40-hours strike was called off by the Joint Strike Committee. Whilst not achieving their stated aim of a 40-hour working week, the striking workers from the engineering and shipbuilding industries did return to work having at least negotiated an agreement that guaranteed them a 47-hour working week; 10 hours less than they were working prior to the strike

[Guest flumax]

Covered https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/251032471675283/photos/a.265323076912889.52615.251032471675283/650813948363798/?type=1

While the rest of the UK puts on widow's weeds for the 50th anniversary of the death of Winston Churchill, let's remind ourselves of what he did to our city in 1919.Ninety-six years ago this very night, running battles were taking place across the city after the police baton-charged a peaceful, 60,000-strong crowd in George Square.The men, women, and children had hit the pavies to call for a 40-hour working week, This was no selfish fight.The men, who were working a 56-hour week, were horrified and ashamed that the soldiers returing from the First World War were being left on the scrapheap. They knew if they took a cut in their hours, and their pay, some of these returning 'heroes' - their brothers, fathers, neighbours - could get back into the yards and the workshops and start providing for their families.Sadly, the bosses didn't see things the same way. They had coined it in during the war and weren't about to spend any of their millions on what they called 'bolshevik scum' (That's your granny, your grandpa).With the Russian Revolution only 15 months old, and the Spartacist Revolution still raging in Germany, the ruling classes came down like a ton of bricks on Glasgow... but Glasgow fought back.After the first police charge, the crowd uprooted iron railings and charged the police line. As the battle moved to North Frederick Street, some poor bugger drove a beer lorry into the crowd. Sadly, it was full of empties but, rather than claim the cash back on the bottles, the crowd pelted the police and drove them back.The crowd then reformed and marched to Glasgow Green where, again, they were attacked by the police. Again, now with the help of the East Enders, they routed the police.Across the city that night running battles took place, in Govan. Townhead and the old Garngad.Churchill, then Secretary of State for War, had already put the men of the HLI, at Maryhill Barracks, under lockdown. He was feart that Glasgow soldiers would take up arms with their fellow citizens.He moved 1000 troops into the city from Edinburgh and Aberdeen, carefully weeding out every Glasgow man from the battalions.The next morning there were machine gun nests on the roof of the North British Hotel (now the Millennium Hotel) and the old central Post Office. There was a Howitzer outside the City Chambers and six tanks, loaded and ready to roll on us, in the cattlemarket in the Gallowgate.Now, we're not saying Churchill was an S H 1 T (although we may be hinting at such), but he was certainly no friend of Glasgow, or the working man.In Fife, where he really did turn the guns on the workers, during the General Strike, his name is still anathema. Old Fifers spit at the mention of his name.Tonight, we doff our bunnets to the brave men and women of 1919 Glasgow, who stood up to fight for their fellow citizens. They didn't want a revolution, they wanted a fair deal for all. Sadly, for many in our great and gallus city, we're still waiting for such a deal...

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

why?

Are you a no voter?

why ; was a pretty infantile response

i had no vote as overseas ; if thats important

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

Covered https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/251032471675283/photos/a.265323076912889.52615.251032471675283/650813948363798/?type=1

While the rest of the UK puts on widow's weeds for the 50th anniversary of the death of Winston Churchill, let's remind ourselves of what he did to our city in 1919.Ninety-six years ago this very night, running battles were taking place across the city after the police baton-charged a peaceful, 60,000-strong crowd in George Square.The men, women, and children had hit the pavies to call for a 40-hour working week, This was no selfish fight.The men, who were working a 56-hour week, were horrified and ashamed that the soldiers returing from the First World War were being left on the scrapheap. They knew if they took a cut in their hours, and their pay, some of these returning 'heroes' - their brothers, fathers, neighbours - could get back into the yards and the workshops and start providing for their families.Sadly, the bosses didn't see things the same way. They had coined it in during the war and weren't about to spend any of their millions on what they called 'bolshevik scum' (That's your granny, your grandpa).With the Russian Revolution only 15 months old, and the Spartacist Revolution still raging in Germany, the ruling classes came down like a ton of bricks on Glasgow... but Glasgow fought back.After the first police charge, the crowd uprooted iron railings and charged the police line. As the battle moved to North Frederick Street, some poor bugger drove a beer lorry into the crowd. Sadly, it was full of empties but, rather than claim the cash back on the bottles, the crowd pelted the police and drove them back.The crowd then reformed and marched to Glasgow Green where, again, they were attacked by the police. Again, now with the help of the East Enders, they routed the police.Across the city that night running battles took place, in Govan. Townhead and the old Garngad.Churchill, then Secretary of State for War, had already put the men of the HLI, at Maryhill Barracks, under lockdown. He was feart that Glasgow soldiers would take up arms with their fellow citizens.He moved 1000 troops into the city from Edinburgh and Aberdeen, carefully weeding out every Glasgow man from the battalions.The next morning there were machine gun nests on the roof of the North British Hotel (now the Millennium Hotel) and the old central Post Office. There was a Howitzer outside the City Chambers and six tanks, loaded and ready to roll on us, in the cattlemarket in the Gallowgate.Now, we're not saying Churchill was an S H 1 T (although we may be hinting at such), but he was certainly no friend of Glasgow, or the working man.In Fife, where he really did turn the guns on the workers, during the General Strike, his name is still anathema. Old Fifers spit at the mention of his name.Tonight, we doff our bunnets to the brave men and women of 1919 Glasgow, who stood up to fight for their fellow citizens. They didn't want a revolution, they wanted a fair deal for all. Sadly, for many in our great and gallus city, we're still waiting for such a deal...

you and the previous cut & paster seem to disagree on whether it was english or Scottish troops deployed

how do you know they didn't want a revolution.....

[Charlie Endell]

I've just caught up with the Paxman documentary; have to say I found it highly enjoyable. That and the reshowing of Smiley's People almost make my licence fee seem like value for money...

Meanwhile, Flora seems obsessed with some reality pish on ITV.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Charlie Endell

[thplinth]

Probably best let the 'great' man sum up his own success.

“Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm”

― Winston Churchill

[Orraloon]

My old man blamed Labour's 1946 victory on the reds getting among the troops during the war.

Just a minor point, but it was 1945 that he was booted out. He was out of office within 2 months of VE day and before victory over Japan had been achieved, which pissed him off just a wee bit.

[Orraloon]

I was supprised to learn that Churchill was an Member of Parliament for dundee of all places.

And when the good folk of Dundee eventually had the sense to get rid of him they all staggered out of the pubs and voted for Edwin Scrymgeour who was standings on a Temperance ticket. . Churchill didn't even come 2nd, the liberal guy beat him as well.