Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 9 hours ago, slasher said: I don’t think Shankland did badly but we need more mobility than he offers. He had a one on one and a maybe half chance. Hit the target with one and score the other then he gives the manager a problem. He didn’t so he remains an option off the bench nothing more. Pattersons lack of defensive ability wasn’t even really tested tonight, he caused his own problems. At this point he’s not in the running to start any games or even come off the bench. Up to him to change that. I think the test for Shankland was whether he could do all the other parts of the game other than scoring. We know he can score goals. I thought that he showed that he could do those elements well last night although he did drift in and out the game. In an ideal world we would have a more rounded forward but we have 3 who have some good attributes and weaker in others. I think what Shankland showed last night that he can start up front and therefore will be on the plane. Patterson was 2nd choice behind Hickey before last night and remains 2nd choice after last night. He didnt have a good night but is still levels above Ralston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 35 minutes ago, Grim Jim said: While the end result was obviously disappointing, I'm putting it down to making too many defensive subs. Looked lost after that. I mean the disruption, rather than the individuals being the main problem. This is exactly it. Bear in mind we hit the woodwork twice before all those subs. The game was there for the taking. Clarke will have learned that we can't afford to take off 2 of our best players. Yes, I'm now officially putting Gilmour in the same bracket as Tierney, Robbo, McTominay and McGinn. He was outrageously good last night and will only get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, BryanBlessed said: We're desperately in need of a win so I think he should have kept Tierney (maybe he needed to come off, though) and Gilmour on the park. Why did we desperately need a win? We have already qualified, last night was a friendly and im sure the players will reflect on the good things and analyse the negatives and try and improve on them. Thats the point in playing the better ranked nations. They expose fralities that we then learn from. We could play exactly the same way on Tuesday and win 3-1 and fans will go away happy but we will have learned nothing. Winning brings confidence, I understand that but misplaced confidence is just as dangerous. We have alot of top top players who know they are top top players. Im sure they have confidence in themselves and each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot1 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 That was the type of performance I wanted to see from Gilmour. I hope Clarke goes to a back 4 against N Ireland. We need a sitting/holding midfielder. Drop Porteous and play Tierney at left centre half beside Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 A lot of criticism being rightfully directed at the defending late in the game, but the space left at the back for the opener was criminal. Can't switch off like that the Euros or we'll be home before the postcards yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 A strange game as I think most level headed people would say. We more than matched Netherlands for most of the game. Could easily have won a match lost 4-0! A lot of positives a hope they manage to build on. Couple of things I learned Back three is not settled. We miss Hanley. Soutter missed his chance to shine. Don't rate him at this level. Definitely a worry if Hanley isn't fit for me which I never thought I'd say. Ferguson while a good player isn't better than the main guys and we shouldn't be experimenting at this stage. Shankland is an option despite the miss. Christie still has something to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 9 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: A strange game as I think most level headed people would say. We more than matched Netherlands for most of the game. Could easily have won a match lost 4-0! A lot of positives a hope they manage to build on. Couple of things I learned Back three is not settled. We miss Hanley. Soutter missed his chance to shine. Don't rate him at this level. Definitely a worry if Hanley isn't fit for me which I never thought I'd say. Ferguson while a good player isn't better than the main guys and we shouldn't be experimenting at this stage. Shankland is an option despite the miss. Christie still has something to offer. Agree with most of this. Though you've possibly understated Christie's performance. He was 2nd only to Gilmour last night. I'd personally go with the exact same team against Northern Ireland, except I'd swap Christie and McTominay around. And try our very best to leave those 11 on the park for as long as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said: Why did we desperately need a win? We have already qualified, last night was a friendly and im sure the players will reflect on the good things and analyse the negatives and try and improve on them. Thats the point in playing the better ranked nations. They expose fralities that we then learn from. We could play exactly the same way on Tuesday and win 3-1 and fans will go away happy but we will have learned nothing. Winning brings confidence, I understand that but misplaced confidence is just as dangerous. We have alot of top top players who know they are top top players. Im sure they have confidence in themselves and each other. Because we've lost or drawn our last six games and I think their confidence will be dented. I'm just getting a bit fed up from us "learning' by getting thrashed. If this was Euros prep, then our best team should have stayed on the park longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 A bit of chat in this thread about going to a back 4. We played a back 4 against both Georgia away and Norway at home at the end of the campaign and looked a lot less solid and shipped goals. I prefer us playing with a back 5, even if Tierney isn't playing, it provides decent cover for both fullbacks to push forward. Also hope that McKenna is fit for June, he's just cemented second choice Left Centre Half on the back of Soutar's performance last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 15 minutes ago, Goozay said: A bit of chat in this thread about going to a back 4. We played a back 4 against both Georgia away and Norway at home at the end of the campaign and looked a lot less solid and shipped goals. I prefer us playing with a back 5, even if Tierney isn't playing, it provides decent cover for both fullbacks to push forward. Also hope that McKenna is fit for June, he's just cemented second choice Left Centre Half on the back of Soutar's performance last night. Has Souttar ever actually played on the left of a back three? I know he plays on the left for Rangers but as part of a back four. I still expect Souttar to go to Germany but Cooper will go if McKenna isn't available. The major problem is RWB if Hickey is out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, BryanBlessed said: Because we've lost or drawn our last six games and I think their confidence will be dented. I'm just getting a bit fed up from us "learning' by getting thrashed. If this was Euros prep, then our best team should have stayed on the park longer. Agree - I just want our strongest team playing and getting used to playing with each other at this point but I suppose he wants to see some players. The fact we still don't know our strongest back three is a concern. But I think Hanley being out has caused issues. We've been competitive in spells playing these top teams so we will have learned something. Playing Hungary and Switzerland should be more our level. Like turning the gears down to easy on the running machine, hopefully we're raring to go against that standard of team. I do think NI now needs to be a win, weirdly or confidence will take a dip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 15 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: Agree - I just want our strongest team playing and getting used to playing with each other at this point but I suppose he wants to see some players. The fact we still don't know our strongest back three is a concern. But I think Hanley being out has caused issues. We've been competitive in spells playing these top teams so we will have learned something. Playing Hungary and Switzerland should be more our level. Like turning the gears down to easy on the running machine, hopefully we're raring to go against that standard of team. I do think NI now needs to be a win, weirdly or confidence will take a dip. Our strongest back three is Tierney-Hendry-Porteus. Hanley has been out for a while, from a Scotland perspective, so not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 hours ago, Scot1 said: That was the type of performance I wanted to see from Gilmour. I hope Clarke goes to a back 4 against N Ireland. We need a sitting/holding midfielder. Drop Porteous and play Tierney at left centre half beside Henry. But we dont have a sitting / holding midfielder in the squad. Closest we have is Maclean and he isnt really either and a big drop off in quality to our other mids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, BryanBlessed said: Because we've lost or drawn our last six games and I think their confidence will be dented. I'm just getting a bit fed up from us "learning' by getting thrashed. If this was Euros prep, then our best team should have stayed on the park longer. Would you rather we played teams ranked below us. Thrashed them and were full of confidence before getting exposed when it matters in the Euros and Nations league? Also, why play our best team for 90 mins last night. Risk picking up an injury for what reason. And also if one of them do get injured before or at the Euros then we have no idea how the replacement would do. Ie would you rather Souttar had his nightmare last night or getting chucked in against Germany because somebody got injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot1 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: But we dont have a sitting / holding midfielder in the squad. Closest we have is Maclean and he isnt really either and a big drop off in quality to our other mids. We could try Souttar in there. Or play Souttar at left centre half and try Tierney in there. Ferguson is another possibility. Personally, I’d try Souttar there first. With Tierney at left centre half in a back 4. See how it looks. Edited March 23 by Scot1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 minutes ago, Scot1 said: We could try Souttar in there. Or play Souttar at left centre half and try Tierney in there. Ferguson is another possibility. Personally, I’d try Souttar there first. With Tierney at left centre half in a back 4. See how it looks. It'd look like it sounds, awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot1 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 minute ago, Diego10 said: It'd look like it sounds, awful You never know until you try, and now is the time for trying out different ideas, before Germany. Clarke has had a long time to try and find a good balance in the midfield, and he’s still not managed it. Personally I don’t think it can be done with the players we have playing a back 3/5. We have 1 too many centres halfs and 1 less midfielder, that’s needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 21 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: Would you rather we played teams ranked below us. Thrashed them and were full of confidence before getting exposed when it matters in the Euros and Nations league? Also, why play our best team for 90 mins last night. Risk picking up an injury for what reason. And also if one of them do get injured before or at the Euros then we have no idea how the replacement would do. Ie would you rather Souttar had his nightmare last night or getting chucked in against Germany because somebody got injured? If we're not going to use players due to risk of injury, we shouldn't be using any of our first XI. If we're playing top teams we should play our best players. I'd rather Souttar didn't have his nightmare at all. I think it was a silly move to put him on in that position in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 47 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: But we dont have a sitting / holding midfielder in the squad. Closest we have is Maclean and he isnt really either and a big drop off in quality to our other mids. Jack would be the perfect choice to defend a lead or replace Gilmour but sadly his injury record will likely rule him out of the Euros. McLean can play centre back so maybe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 One thing I don't think anybody's mentioned is that without the wing backs we have no width at all in the squad; which is why we need a Fraser or a Doak, maybe even Scott Wright though that won't happen. England, as we will see tonight, have plenty of wide midfielders who can play left or right viz. Foden, Palmer, Bowen etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I think Hanley will be straight back in if fit. Willie Miller was talking about him being more of an actual defender than Hendry, though he's worse on the ball. I don't really seeing us having learned anything from the match. McTominay can't defend corners and Gilmour hasn't got much of a shot on him but we already knew thar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan II Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Diego10 said: It'd look like it sounds, awful Indeed. Absolutely woeful suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot1 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 38 minutes ago, duncan II said: Indeed. Absolutely woeful suggestions. My 1st choice would be Hickey, but obviously he isn’t available. Porteous is another who could be tried in there, I seem to remember he played a few games for Hibs as a defensive/ holding midfielder. Sometimes these things work, sometimes they don’t. But doing the same thing over and over again, which is what Clarke has done for years, and expecting different results, that’s woeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yr Alban Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Was at work last night, so just watched the highlights now. As a Hearts fan, this was reminiscent of about a hundred games I've seen us play against Celtic and Rangers over the years. It was never a 4-0 game, but we didn't convert any of the chances we created, couldn't get established in the game, lost a sucker punch goal, passed up further chances to equalise, and then at the end got picked off with late goals as we lost focus, to put a polish on the scoreline for the opposition. It's basically what happens when you play against a better team. No matter how well you play, you'd better convert your chances, or you could be on the wrong end of a hiding. The trouble is that, well, we aren't as good as the top teams. Let's take Shankland's chance. I've seen him score similar goals from there a dozen times, but his conversion rate is maybe 70-80% for a chance like that, and the Dutch have guys who will score from there 98% of the time, and did. Doesn't make him a bad player (and I think he played well, and hope Clarke noted that) but their players are turning out for the likes of AC Milan, and Shanks is at Hearts. I'm hoping that we learned one lesson - against a top team, you can't lose your focus even for a moment, because they will punish you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy of Lochcarron Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Am just home from Amsterdam & whilst I am totally committed, I was pissed off with the collapse late on, I thought we were really good for an hour despite being 1-0 down …. Rarely do we create so many chances particularly away fae home, at 1-0 I wisnae happy but there were lots of positives up til the second goal…. But ffs Paterson was awful…. Ferguson (most overrated Scot I can think o) McLean & Souttar OMG they were diabolical - Gilmour was running the show &all of us could see it ….was a great couple of days & my daughters first away trip & she loved it & the experience, but ffs it was disappointing that we were comical at back last 15 mins….after such a decent effort prior to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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