Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

47 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

if sturgeon comes out of this whole saga unscathed then that will tell you all you need to know, 

It will tell us that you’ve been spouting pish for the past three years.

[Ally Bongo]

Wings Over Scotland

 

@WingsScotland

 

 

Am told this morning by very reliable sources that the Crown Office is still pulling out all the stops to try to obstruct Operation Branchform and, particularly, try to somehow save Nicola Sturgeon. Cops on the case increasingly angry.

 

Reeks of desperation tbh

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

It will tell us that you’ve been spouting pish for the past three years.

if you have been paying attention, it will prove me right,, i have never been so confident in being right about something politically than i am over sturgeon. 

[hampden_loon2878]

53 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Wings Over Scotland

 

@WingsScotland

 

 

Am told this morning by very reliable sources that the Crown Office is still pulling out all the stops to try to obstruct Operation Branchform and, particularly, try to somehow save Nicola Sturgeon. Cops on the case increasingly angry.

 

Reeks of desperation tbh

he has been right on the majority of things, i wouldn't bet against him on this either 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Wings Over Scotland

 

@WingsScotland

 

 

Am told this morning by very reliable sources that the Crown Office is still pulling out all the stops to try to obstruct Operation Branchform and, particularly, try to somehow save Nicola Sturgeon. Cops on the case increasingly angry.

 

Reeks of desperation tbh

Desperation from who, COPFS or WIngs?

[Ally Bongo]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Desperation from who, COPFS or WIngs?

Wings

[aaid]

Just now, Ally Bongo said:

Wings

👍

[Ally Bongo]

 

[scotlad]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Wee quisling cunt.

[Ally Bongo]

7 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Wee quisling cunt.

👌

[scotlad]

12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

👌

I don't use that phrase lightly either.

The sad thing is, thousands of people will still go out and vote for the wee creep, even though he apparently doesn't believe his own country deserves to exist.  He's fucking shameful.

[Ally Bongo]

19 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I don't use that phrase lightly either.

The sad thing is, thousands of people will still go out and vote for the wee creep, even though he apparently doesn't believe his own country deserves to exist.  He's fucking shameful.

Totally

Yet they take offense when we call them that and run to the MSM

[scotlad]

32 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Totally

Yet they take offense when we call them that and run to the MSM

I know, but what else are you expected to call an elected politician who argues that his own country doesn't deserve to exist - a collaborator or traitor, perhaps?  😂

It's not a nice thing to call someone but it's a not a nice thing to be.  If he believes Scotland is better off remaining in the UK for social or economic reasons or both, then fine, I've no issue with that.  I don't agree with that viewpoint but it's a legitimate one to hold.  But to say it shouldn't even exist...🤯

[Caledonian Craig]

I wholeheartedly agree with Alex Salmond's suggestion now of an independence alliance if you will involving all parties supporting independence. It could work if all parties involved work solely on independdence and how to achieve it. If the Greens want to use it to push more non-independence bills then just no. A united front is needed now and the independence movement re-energised and this could do it.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I wholeheartedly agree with Alex Salmond's suggestion now of an independence alliance if you will involving all parties supporting independence. It could work if all parties involved work solely on independdence and how to achieve it. If the Greens want to use it to push more non-independence bills then just no. A united front is needed now and the independence movement re-energised and this could do it.

He spoils it somewhat - and casts doubt on his sincerity- by then suggesting in the next breathe that the SNP and Greens dump the policies that form the basis of their co-operation agreement.  That’s not even the tail trying to wag the dog rather a hair on the dog’s tail trying to wag the dog.  

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

He spoils it somewhat - and casts doubt on his sincerity- by then suggesting in the next breathe that the SNP and Greens dump the policies that form the basis of their co-operation agreement.  That’s not even the tail trying to wag the dog rather a hair on the dog’s tail trying to wag the dog.  

Face it that deal is all but dead (or soon will be) come the next GE. What is more important? Independence (which is what is supposed to be the SNP's chief reason for being) or a few agreements to patch together a coalition that has got us no closer to independence - if anything it has taken us further away.

[Alibi]

The Greens can get to fuck.  Their input to the SG is harmful, and that's before you consider that they seem to be a weird bunch of folk with some very strange views. 

[Och Aye]

2 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The Greens can get to fuck.  Their input to the SG is harmful, and that's before you consider that they seem to be a weird bunch of folk with some very strange views. 

Like most politicians 

[aaid]

17 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Face it that deal is all but dead (or soon will be) come the next GE. What is more important? Independence (which is what is supposed to be the SNP's chief reason for being) or a few agreements to patch together a coalition that has got us no closer to independence - if anything it has taken us further away.

Any coalition agreement is largely dependent upon the electoral arithmetic at the time, so if at the next election, the SNP has a absolute majority, there will be no need for any agreement, if they are in a minority position and with the Green’s support they don’t have a majority, then there also won’t be one.

That’s not the point though.  The specific policies that Salmond is talking about the SNP and Greens ditching, GRR, HPMA, judicial Reform were all in the SNP’s manifesto for 2021, the exception is DRS, which is implementing already passed legislation and which has been stymied by - surprise, surprise - Westminster.

So you have the ridiculous - some might say arrogant - suggestion that a party with no elected representatives - correction, no representatives elected under their banner - who are polling in the very low single digits, demanding that the SNP and Greens fall in behind them.

Maybe you need to think more closely at the reasons why the SNP sought out a co-operation agreement in the first place.  

If you look at the year before the election in 2021 - largely driven by the fallout of the Salmond case - although I think that was just a convenient political opportunity- the Tories started to call or threaten motions of confidence.  

That was the reason behind getting the Greens inside the tent, to stymie that.  If you look at the way politics has been conducted in Holyrood since the election, if there was no majority, then these would’ve become more and more frequent and it would’ve thrown Holyrood into a log jam.

Its pretty obvious that the opposition and the MSM are targeting the relationship with the Greens as they see that as a weak link, but pretty much all of it is nonsense, this latest stuff about Lorna Slater for example.

 

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The Greens can get to fuck.  Their input to the SG is harmful, and that's before you consider that they seem to be a weird bunch of folk with some very strange views. 

95% of SNP members voted for the agreement.  I was one of them, I haven’t had reason to regret that. 

[Caledonian Craig]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

Any coalition agreement is largely dependent upon the electoral arithmetic at the time, so if at the next election, the SNP has a absolute majority, there will be no need for any agreement, if they are in a minority position and with the Green’s support they don’t have a majority, then there also won’t be one.

That’s not the point though.  The specific policies that Salmond is talking about the SNP and Greens ditching, GRR, HPMA, judicial Reform were all in the SNP’s manifesto for 2021, the exception is DRS, which is implementing already passed legislation and which has been stymied by - surprise, surprise - Westminster.

So you have the ridiculous - some might say arrogant - suggestion that a party with no elected representatives - correction, no representatives elected under their banner - who are polling in the very low single digits, demanding that the SNP and Greens fall in behind them.

Maybe you need to think more closely at the reasons why the SNP sought out a co-operation agreement in the first place.  

If you look at the year before the election in 2021 - largely driven by the fallout of the Salmond case - although I think that was just a convenient political opportunity- the Tories started to call or threaten motions of confidence.  

That was the reason behind getting the Greens inside the tent, to stymie that.  If you look at the way politics has been conducted in Holyrood since the election, if there was no majority, then these would’ve become more and more frequent and it would’ve thrown Holyrood into a log jam.

Its pretty obvious that the opposition and the MSM are targeting the relationship with the Greens as they see that as a weak link, but pretty much all of it is nonsense, this latest stuff about Lorna Slater for example.

 

You are missing the biggest picture - INDEPENDENCE. 

If your views echo SNP then it just demonstrates how they have steered away from their once soul reason for being - getting us independence. Now it would seem going by your post (if it mirrors the SNP's chief interests) then independence is no longer a chief aim but staying in power is.

Fighting for independence I liken to WW2. For the Allies to win they needed to join forces with some countries they did not polurically agree with such as Russia but it got the job done as they were all seeking the same end goal and the united front was necessary. Independence I see as very similar and alliance is needed not petty squabbling.

[aaid]

19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You are missing the biggest picture - INDEPENDENCE. 

If your views echo SNP then it just demonstrates how they have steered away from their once soul reason for being - getting us independence. Now it would seem going by your post (if it mirrors the SNP's chief interests) then independence is no longer a chief aim but staying in power is.

Fighting for independence I liken to WW2. For the Allies to win they needed to join forces with some countries they did not polurically agree with such as Russia but it got the job done as they were all seeking the same end goal and the united front was necessary. Independence I see as very similar and alliance is needed not petty squabbling.

1. Explain to me how we achieve independence if the SNP - let’s face it, they are the only option - are not in power?

2. Explain to me how the co-operation agreement with the Greens has steered the SNP away from independence?

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, aaid said:

1. Explain to me how we achieve independence if the SNP - let’s face it, they are the only option - are not in power?

2. Explain to me how the co-operation agreement with the Greens has steered the SNP away from independence?

1. They have been in power for many years now and it has not got us independence. They are the chief political party for independence but to me they need freshening up and the independence movement needs freshening up. Sure they can remain in power or at least be the biggest party in Scotland but letsvbe honest our present direction is steering us away from.independence. The independence movement (in my opinion) is rudderless amd without a real voice and no unity.

2. It is not so much steering it away from independence more putting Green issues above more pressing matters. That is how I see it.

[Alibi]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

That’s not the point though.  The specific policies that Salmond is talking about the SNP and Greens ditching, GRR, HPMA, judicial Reform were all in the SNP’s manifesto for 2021, the exception is DRS, which is implementing already passed legislation and which has been stymied by - surprise, surprise - Westminster.

 

Saying that the GRR was in the 2021 manifesto is somewhat disingenuous.  There was a vague mention of it on about page 33, but there was no mention of self ID which is the contentious issue really.  That and the notion that people can actually change sex as opposed to just pretend to.

I thought the idea was to win support for indy by putting forward policies that had public support.  The GRR certainly does not have that; HPMA seems pretty much a vote loser, and the DRS, while a good idea if done properly, seems to have become a clusterfuck in the making, largely because Lorna Slater doesn't seem to have thought it through and has ignored any existing schemes currently running in other countries.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Alibi said:

Saying that the GRR was in the 2021 manifesto is somewhat disingenuous.  There was a vague mention of it on about page 33, but there was no mention of self ID which is the contentious issue really.  That and the notion that people can actually change sex as opposed to just pretend to.

I thought the idea was to win support for indy by putting forward policies that had public support.  The GRR certainly does not have that; HPMA seems pretty much a vote loser, and the DRS, while a good idea if done properly, seems to have become a clusterfuck in the making, largely because Lorna Slater doesn't seem to have thought it through and has ignored any existing schemes currently running in other countries.

You're the one one that's being disingenuous here.   The commitment in the 2021 manifesto was to pass the GRR bill.

The GRR bill had been in progress since 2016 and all the basic principles - including self-id - were well known and understood before the election.

HPMA is currently in the consultation phase, the complaint seems to be there is no consultation, which makes no sense whatsoever.   That seems symptomatic of what Nicola Sturgeon was going on about yesterday when she spoke of people adopting fixed and immoveable positions on legislation before its even gotten going.