Indyref 2 (2)

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Agree, he's gone up in my estimations.  Wouldn't have judged him from chucking it.  He's having to deal with horrendous personal issues whilst taking personal abuse from everyone from Elon Musk to twitter trolls.  A huge part of my support for scottish independence is that I want our people collectively to be better, almost breaks that solidarity when you see fellow scots mindlessly abusing their own.  I think politicians take an awful lot of abuse and we should consider that a bit more.  A lot of them are only trying their best.  I wouldnt dream of abusing even Tory politicians, as vigorously opposed to them as i am!  

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. He's shown some real stones on the Gaza/Israel issue whilst having family stuck there.

Unlike sunak who first puts hid stall firmly behind Israel and now all of a sudden today the UK is apparently trying get a cease fire arranged for more aid to get through. 

 

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Were sturgeon and pals genuinely so influenced by the greens or were the views on O&G and gender identity the views of the snp?

What I'm getting at is I don't think these views will change if the snp split with the greens. Isn't the issue that there are people within the SNP who see certain issues as more important than independence?

They are both shared policy objectives.

Of course, the SG policy on O&G is essentially no *new* O&G.  It doesn’t mean closing down existing fields, it means not opening up new fields.  The only argument for opening up new fields is economic, it’s not about fuel security, it’s not about reducing prices, it’s not about reducing the carbon footprint.   All that oil and gas is going on the international market and the vast majority will be exported.

On GRR, it was once the policy of every single party, up until the Tories in England weaponised it as a culture war and Labour shat their pants at taking a stand for fear of upsetting gammons. 

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Absolutely agree with this. He's shown some real stones on the Gaza/Israel issue whilst having family stuck there.

Unlike sunak who first puts hid stall firmly behind Israel and now all of a sudden today the UK is apparently trying get a cease fire arranged for more aid to get through. 

 

And where is Starmer?

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

And where is Starmer?

Making a bigger ass of himself than usual from what I can see.

[Orraloon]

58 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Were sturgeon and pals genuinely so influenced by the greens or were the views on O&G and gender identity the views of the snp?

What I'm getting at is I don't think these views will change if the snp split with the greens. Isn't the issue that there are people within the SNP who see certain issues as more important than independence?

Absolutely. 

And, a lot of these folk are falling for the old British State diving and rule tactics that they have successfully been using for centuries. It's just so blatant and yet people keep falling for it. 

[Orraloon]

51 minutes ago, aaid said:

And where is Starmer?

I think he is stuck half way up Netanyahu's hole. 

[TDYER63]

6 hours ago, aaid said:

Well in fairness, you should watch the full interview and get the complete context.  Read past the headline. 

It was on the Sunday Show, it’ll be on iPlayer. 

Also, let’s be honest here, the only party who has an idealogical stance towards independence, that means they exclude working with any other party that doesn’t hold the same view as they do either in coalition or on setting a budget is the Labour Party who have consistently refused to do so since 2007. 

Even the Tories were prepared to work with Alex Salmond between 2007 and 2011. That’s not a criticism of either side, it’s actually grown up politics.  

All parties have their own agenda. Far from grown up politics I would suggest anything the Tories did between 2007-2011 was more to do with a GIRUY to Labour . I imagine they thought the SNP were a flash in the pan . Doubt they are quite so grown up these days.

I will watch the full interview but I suspect The Greens will do whatever they need to do to remain relevant. 

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Why would that be a bad thing if the public of Shetland wanted it?

oh fuck off, was this the plan all along,, split the country down the middle with idiotic policies then split parts of the country off causing unrest,, stick to london politics as you obviously dont have independence as a priority,, you cunts have destroyed it,, 

[Hertsscot]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

No you wouldn’t and look at this.. who needs the unionists to decide and conquer when you have the greens,,, greens are creeping up my list I dislike the most after thatcher and sturgeon 

I think arguing for more local decision making is perfectly valid but I share your suspicions about the Greens. I'm still at a loss why they stood a candidate at the HW and R by-election. I can't see how splitting the Yes vote fits with a desire for independence. They also come across as very arrogant and judgemental (e.g. their treatment of Andy Wightman). The reality is if it wasn't for d'hondt they'd be a complete irrelevance as far as Scottish politics is concerned.

[scotlad]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:33 PM, Hertsscot said:

Humza's comment about her departure being no great loss was not the classiest but I suspect its true. Anyhow Humza will have weightier and more personal thoughts on his mind.

She's a funny yin, that's for sure. I saw her described the other day as a stalwart of the independence movement, which I thought was stretching it. She was involved in the Yes campaign, granted, but according to her ex-husband she didn't show any leanings towards independence until 2012 and didn't join the SNP until 2014.

That's not to say that she isn't genuine, but over time I have developed a distrust of anyone over the age of 21 who begins sentences with an elongated "Sooo....". 

[scotlad]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

No you wouldn’t and look at this.. who needs the unionists to decide and conquer when you have the greens,,, greens are creeping up my list I dislike the most after thatcher and sturgeon 

😒

That fud describes himself as a 'Half-Shetland Londoner' in his Twitter bio.

For. The. Watching. Both he and his party.

[hampden_loon2878]

8 minutes ago, scotlad said:

😒

That fud describes himself as a 'Half-Shetland Londoner' in his Twitter bio.

For. The. Watching. Both he and his party.

its crystal clear what's going on,, 

[aaid]

55 minutes ago, scotlad said:

She's a funny yin, that's for sure. I saw her described the other day as a stalwart of the independence movement, which I thought was stretching it. She was involved in the Yes campaign, granted, but according to her ex-husband she didn't show any leanings towards independence until 2012 and didn't join the SNP until 2014.

That's not to say that she isn't genuine, but over time I have developed a distrust of anyone over the age of 21 who begins sentences with an elongated "Sooo....". 

I was trying to find an interview yesterday with her from a few years back where *she* essentially confirmed that.  Apparently she was at a dinner party in 2012 and she was at a dinner party when the subject came up and all the others were of the opinion she’d be on the No side and they were all shocked - including the ex-husband - when she said she was more on the Yes side.

I’m not saying she’s not an independence supporter but she’s always struck me as someone who saw an opportunity to advance herself.  She put herself forwards as a candidate for WM in 2015.  

In common with someone who she shares a party with again, Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh.

Its pretty obvious who was pushing Tasmina’s career, I wonder if it was the same one with Ash?

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

 The reality is if it wasn't for d'hondt they'd be a complete irrelevance as far as Scottish politics is concerned.

You’re not going to put forwards an argument for WM style FPTP are you?

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

You’re not going to put forwards an argument for WM style FPTP are you?

Not necessarily but the only reason the Greens and Tories have any say at Holyrood is because of d'hondt.

[aaid]

24 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Not necessarily but the only reason the Greens and Tories have any say at Holyrood is because of d'hondt.

The Greens got 8% of the vote.  They should’ve gotten 10 seats, they got 8.  

You think d’Hondt is a problem because it gives those you don’t like seats, the alternative is the 85% of the seats that one party got under FPTP off of 47% of the vote.  That party was the SNP but anyone who thinks that would be a healthy outcome is kidding themselves.

[aaid]

Ash Regan comparing herself to Margo McDonald, FFS.

[hampden_loon2878]

36 minutes ago, aaid said:

Ash Regan comparing herself to Margo McDonald, FFS.

Aaid, do you want Scottish independence? 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

The Greens got 8% of the vote.  They should’ve gotten 10 seats, they got 8.  

You think d’Hondt is a problem because it gives those you don’t like seats, the alternative is the 85% of the seats that one party got under FPTP off of 47% of the vote.  That party was the SNP but anyone who thinks that would be a healthy outcome is kidding themselves.

I'm not saying that d'hondt is a problem because 'it gives those you don't like seats'. I'm actually in favour of PR in some form.

[aaid]

12 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Aaid, do you want Scottish independence? 

Do you?

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm not saying that d'hondt is a problem because 'it gives those you don't like seats'. I'm actually in favour of PR in some form.

So what is your problem then?

The Greens got 200,000 votes, that’s why they have relevance. 

[hampden_loon2878]

33 minutes ago, aaid said:

Do you?

Bloody hell aaid, you canna even answer a straight forward question about independence on a Indy ref forum. Personally I don’t think you do 

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Bloody hell aaid, you canna even answer a straight forward question about independence on a Indy ref forum. Personally I don’t think you do 

Maybe you should consider that other people have different views from you on how the best way to achieve independence is, what policies they believe in and what they don’t, think that politicians need to take a stand for things that are right, have different ideas on who is an ally and who is a charlatan.

I don’t claim to be 100% right but I know for one thing, I don’t lie, I don’t spread rumours and falsehoods and I don’t actively work to undermine the efforts of the party.  Then again, you in your wisdom seem to think that your “saving the party” when you do that.

[Ally Bongo]

41 minutes ago, aaid said:

Maybe you should consider that other people have different views from you on how the best way to achieve independence is, what policies they believe in and what they don’t, think that politicians need to take a stand for things that are right, have different ideas on who is an ally and who is a charlatan.

I don’t claim to be 100% right but I know for one thing, I don’t lie, I don’t spread rumours and falsehoods and I don’t actively work to undermine the efforts of the party.  Then again, you in your wisdom seem to think that your “saving the party” when you do that.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Maybe you should consider that other people have different views from you on how the best way to achieve independence is, what policies they believe in and what they don’t, think that politicians need to take a stand for things that are right, have different ideas on who is an ally and who is a charlatan.

I don’t claim to be 100% right but I know for one thing, I don’t lie, I don’t spread rumours and falsehoods and I don’t actively work to undermine the efforts of the party.  Then again, you in your wisdom seem to think that your “saving the party” when you do that.

You most certainly have lied, remember calling me a cock sucker when you had a little “moment” I most certainly am not a cock sucker. I also remember the slander against salmond that poured from you into this forum regarding salmond. You may not claim to be right however you think you are and are very dangerous with it, the same way the current snp administration are dangerous in their rock solid belief that what they are doing is right, despite the walls falling in around them. I have wound you up but not lied, or spread rumours,, I have spoke about rumours that are out there but not actually said what the rumours are, I also believe these “rumours” to be more than rumours.