vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Orraloon said: Or, we could be revolutionary and try playing them both at the same time? far to adventurous, don't be absurd 😂 Edited October 2, 2019 by vanderark14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: can you confirm 100% that Tierney is 100% committed to scotland? no you can't so I can question his commitment and Clarke's back bone. I can't confirm his lack of commitment either but I find it strange a player can manage 75 minutes for a club like Arsenal but he can't go out with our squad. Am I not allowed to question this? should I just accept whatever Arsenal and Clarke say? He played 75 minutes, that means he is not injured. We've had players called up who haven't been playing much beffoe, remember Alan Hutton? Greg Taylor is in the squad - he has hardly played if at all. armstrong was constantly called up but barely makes the bench for southampton. I know you are a fan of Tienry because he played for Celtic and believe me I am a fan and I want him in the team but that doesn't mean his commitment shouldn't be questioned just like any other player I have heard Clarke say Arsenal asked for him not to be included, I think Clarke and every other manager needs to be much tougher with clubs when it comes to our players. He wasn’t included v Man United on Sunday so I’d say he’s not fit enough surely? Possibly he’s picked up an injury? Let’s bang him in for two pointless games and risk setting him back, I can see your thinking. Edited October 2, 2019 by macy37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, macy37 said: He wasn’t included v Man United on Sunday so I’d say he’s not fit enough surely? Possibly he’s picked up an injury? Let’s bang him in for two pointless games and risk setting him back, I can see your thinking. According to reports this morning he is in line for a start tomorrow night. These matches are far from pointless Edited October 2, 2019 by vanderark14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: According to reports this morning he is in line for a start tomorrow night. These matches are far from pointless They are. He’ll be in a starting 11 when fit and doesn’t need ‘trialed’. Tomorrow night will feature Arsenals 2nd team, a perfect opportunity to give him more game time on his way back to full fitness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, macy37 said: They are. He’ll be in a starting 11 when fit and doesn’t need ‘trialed’. Tomorrow night will feature Arsenals 2nd team, a perfect opportunity to give him more game time on his way back to full fitness. Scotland have to get as many points as possible from the remaining matches to avoid dropping further down the pecking order. Most if not all Scotland fans will agree on this, I am not sure how anyone can see these matches as pointless. We may be out of this group but we need to finish 3rd and build confidence before the playoff. So he is fit enough to start in a competitive fixture in a European competition but not fit enough for Scotland. Thanks for clarifying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, vanderark14 said: can you confirm 100% that Tierney is 100% committed to scotland? no you can't so I can question his commitment and Clarke's back bone. I can't confirm his lack of commitment either but I find it strange a player can manage 75 minutes for a club like Arsenal but he can't go out with our squad. Am I not allowed to question this? should I just accept whatever Arsenal and Clarke say? He played 75 minutes, that means he is not injured. We've had players called up who haven't been playing much beffoe, remember Alan Hutton? Greg Taylor is in the squad - he has hardly played if at all. armstrong was constantly called up but barely makes the bench for southampton. I know you are a fan of Tienry because he played for Celtic and believe me I am a fan and I want him in the team but that doesn't mean his commitment shouldn't be questioned just like any other player I have heard Clarke say Arsenal asked for him not to be included, I think Clarke and every other manager needs to be much tougher with clubs when it comes to our players. He has played for Scotland, what more do you want, an "I'VE MET THE TARTAN ARMY" tattoo? You are displaying the typical Scottish trait of not being able to wait to knock our best players for whatever reason you may have. You realise that he has played 75 mins of first team football, he didn't have a proper pre-season and all the (highly qualified) Arsenal medical people think he wasn't at the right level to even be on the bench against Man Utd.....but you, Dr Vanderark, think you know his fitness levels better than any of them. Jeez. I am a fan of Tierney because he is a good Scottish prospect, who through time, will make our national team a better team. I feel the same about McTominay and Andy Robertson. I recognise the qualities these players have. I don't give a hoot who they play for or who they played for. I just don't feel the need to question them or their commitment every time they aren't in a squad. You and I, and all on, here are miles away from knowing the fitness levels, or otherwise, of players. You are either guessing, at best, or just wanting to have a dig at him, at worst, based on some comments you read in the media. Why don't we just trust the people responsible in both our National team set up and the highly paid individuals at their clubs who see these players day in day out to make the best judgement on their fitness levels? Or is that too logical for you to consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: Yes. He must be bang on form then, how many minutes did he play in September? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, Dalgety Bay TA said: He has played for Scotland, what more do you want, an "I'VE MET THE TARTAN ARMY" tattoo? You are displaying the typical Scottish trait of not being able to wait to knock our best players for whatever reason you may have. You realise that he has played 75 mins of first team football, he didn't have a proper pre-season and all the (highly qualified) Arsenal medical people think he wasn't at the right level to even be on the bench against Man Utd.....but you, Dr Vanderark, think you know his fitness levels better than any of them. Jeez. I am a fan of Tierney because he is a good Scottish prospect, who through time, will make our national team a better team. I feel the same about McTominay and Andy Robertson. I recognise the qualities these players have. I don't give a hoot who they play for or who they played for. I just don't feel the need to question them or their commitment every time they aren't in a squad. You and I, and all on, here are miles away from knowing the fitness levels, or otherwise, of players. You are either guessing, at best, or just wanting to have a dig at him, at worst, based on some comments you read in the media. Why don't we just trust the people responsible in both our National team set up and the highly paid individuals at their clubs who see these players day in day out to make the best judgement on their fitness levels? Or is that too logical for you to consider? The first part in bold couldn't be further from the truth, I'm a positive ray of sunshine compared to most on this board 🤣, I don't sit waiting to knock our players at all, you are resorting to making stuff up. As I have already said, Tierney is fit enough to play in a European match tomorrow night but not for Scotland in a competitive match, the match he plays tomorrow night will be a lot tougher than the match against San Marino. Are you honestly this naive? take the word of Arsenl's medical people? come on min, they have deemed him fit enough to be selected tomorrow but not to travel with scotland, of course they won't want him going. These clubs don't want any of their players going away with their country because they pay big sums of money for them. As for the last part in bold, really? trust the people responsible for the national team, I think we both know the answer to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Scotland have to get as many points as possible from the remaining matches to avoid dropping further down the pecking order. Most if not all Scotland fans will agree on this, I am not sure how anyone can see these matches as pointless. We may be out of this group but we need to finish 3rd and build confidence before the playoff. So he is fit enough to start in a competitive fixture in a European competition but not fit enough for Scotland. Thanks for clarifying They could use him in the Russia game but leave him out for San Marino. If we cant beat San Marino with or without Tierney then we deserve to drop down the pecking order. However if the player himself does not want to be considered for the games I am not sure how much benefit anyone will get from this. I have a feeling fitness is being used as an excuse. A reasonable excuse but an excuse nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: They could use him in the Russia game but leave him out for San Marino. If we cant beat San Marino with or without Tierney then we deserve to drop down the pecking order. However if the player himself does not want to be considered for the games I am not sure how much benefit anyone will get from this. I have a feeling fitness is being used as an excuse. A reasonable excuse but an excuse nonetheless. Steven Fletcher was criticised for saying he didn't want to be considered, he then played for Sheffield Wednesday and scored two days before the scotland match. If you are fit enough to play for your club you are fit enough to play for Scotland. Questioning this decision from Tierney does not mean I am desperate to have a go at one of our best players as some think, we as fans should be questioning this, we have all paid money to watch scotland, some more than others so its only right that any player is questioned when they pull out but then play for their club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Steven Fletcher was criticised for saying he didn't want to be considered, he then played for Sheffield Wednesday and scored two days before the scotland match. If you are fit enough to play for your club you are fit enough to play for Scotland. Questioning this decision from Tierney does not mean I am desperate to have a go at one of our best players as some think, we as fans should be questioning this, we have all paid money to watch scotland, some more than others so its only right that any player is questioned when they pull out but then play for their club. I completely agree and think you have every right to question the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: I completely agree and think you have every right to question the decision. Have you ever considered that the decision might not actually be Tierney's? It might be his clubs? Based on what they see from him day to day on the training pitch and the tests they do on him. Maybe thats what they based the decision on him not to be included v Man Utd on? Who knows? I don't. I am happy to admit I am not an expert on the fitness levels of top level footballers. Seems I am in the minority in that case however. Every other fvcker seems to be medical experts, no idea why they are all on the TAMB when they could be running their own practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, ProudScot said: He must be bang on form then, how many minutes did he play in September? I know you are a bit of a fvckwit and not very bright but even you must be able to find that information out for yourself? You seem to have at least been able to find your way on to the TAMB, unfortunately, so I am sure if you used something called Google you would be able to work our the answer to your question yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: I know you are a bit of a fvckwit and not very bright but even you must be able to find that information out for yourself? You seem to have at least been able to find your way on to the TAMB, unfortunately, so I am sure if you used something called Google you would be able to work our the answer to your question yourself. You’re the biggest balloon on this board since Chripper 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: Have you ever considered that the decision might not actually be Tierney's? It might be his clubs? Based on what they see from him day to day on the training pitch and the tests they do on him. Maybe thats what they based the decision on him not to be included v Man Utd on? Who knows? I don't. I am happy to admit I am not an expert on the fitness levels of top level footballers. Seems I am in the minority in that case however. Every other fvcker seems to be medical experts, no idea why they are all on the TAMB when they could be running their own practices. 🙂 As someone who hasn't exercised for 23 years and cannot walk after taking a spin class on Monday I am the last person to lecture on fitness. However if Tierney can play 70 mins for Arsenal last week, is likely to play on Thursday and potentially on Saturday then I really do find it difficult to accept that he is not fit enough to play for his country. No-one would be expecting him to play 90 mins in either of the Scotland games and tbh I wouldn't play him against San Marino. Arsenal may be the ones calling the shots but I doubt he has put up much resistance to their request, If we were in a better position within the group I am pretty sure Clarke would be pushing this more. I don't doubt my take on this situation is, to a degree, influenced by my disappointment and frustration that we have few players of real quality and need every one we can get. But I am pretty sceptical of this fitness issue. I am not saying I am right, if he fails to play their Europa or league games, or looks like he is struggling, I will accept that they have made the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 53 minutes ago, Youngie said: Eh? He scored a grand total of zero goals for Bradford in League one. (in 15 appearances). Hardly prolific. Just gonnae gloss over the 22 he bagged for Swansea last season then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 20 hours ago, kumnio said: That’s either the worst fishing post ever, or the most moronic post on here, and that includes independence, brexit and roasted cheese posts. Chris Martin is a fucking dire excuse for a football player, he makes McBurnie look like Messi. Chris Martin is by no means anything to write home about, but he has goals at international level, including a winner against Slovenia. McBurnie, who has yet to net for Scotland even against the likes of Kazakhstan, (another anonymous performance) does not look as accomplished at holding the ball up as Chris Martin does. Neither ought to be anyone's first choice, or even close, but if we are looking for someone to hold the ball up, bring midfielders into it, win freekicks (like Martin did against england, to some useful effect, and surely that is indeed the sort of striker we are after given those who are available and our relative strength in forward going midfielders) then I think the facts suggest Chris Martin is more suited to that specific role than Mcburnie is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I’d be willing to give Kieran Tierney the benefit of the doubt on this occasion. He’s on the way back from injury and obviously being gradually introduced to the Arsenal team in games they don’t place massive importance on. He’s also now a very small fish in a very big pond, so maybe feels it’s a bit early to be insisting he be allowed to overrule the medical staff to play for Scotland. Having said all that, he has pulled out of a lot of Scotland squads and has never really given the impression he would crawl over broken glass to represent his country, whereas it was clear he would for Celtic. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question his commitment. I’d add that Celtic seemed to manage him and his injury really badly last season. He could have had his Op in March and been fit for Celtics champions league qualifiers. Ultimately Celtic and now Arsenal pay his wages so they call the shots to an extent and they can take calculated risks on when he’s fit or not. If come November he’s playing regularly for Arsenal and still not available for Scotland we’ll have our answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: 🙂 As someone who hasn't exercised for 23 years and cannot walk after taking a spin class on Monday I am the last person to lecture on fitness. However if Tierney can play 70 mins for Arsenal last week, is likely to play on Thursday and potentially on Saturday then I really do find it difficult to accept that he is not fit enough to play for his country. No-one would be expecting him to play 90 mins in either of the Scotland games and tbh I wouldn't play him against San Marino. Arsenal may be the ones calling the shots but I doubt he has put up much resistance to their request, If we were in a better position within the group I am pretty sure Clarke would be pushing this more. I don't doubt my take on this situation is, to a degree, influenced by my disappointment and frustration that we have few players of real quality and need every one we can get. But I am pretty sceptical of this fitness issue. I am not saying I am right, if he fails to play their Europa or league games, or looks like he is struggling, I will accept that they have made the right decision. The fact that Arsenal didn't even have him on the bench v Man Utd is a massive indicator to me. Arsenal are, quite rightly, trying to manage someone back to full match fitness who has had an op and lack of proper pre-season. Again, they have to be regarded as the experts on these decisions because they see him every single day at training. He may have a specific training routine at the moment, they may do something extra with him after normal training.....no one knows. Or certainly none of the experts on here know, thats for sure. Why do you doubt he has put up much resistance if Arsenal were the ones making this request? Just wondering, you must have some reason for thinking that. SBMFC has picked out some relevant points - Arsenal are playing him in games that are not as important to them - Carabao Cup and Europa League. If they feel he isn't ready for PL football then he probably isn't ready for International football. He also, again, quite rightly says that Celtic managed his injury problems poorly last season. Its obvious, now, that he needed an op long before he had one. He was nowhere near the player last season, certainly the second half, that he had been previously. In summary, and you admit yourself, most of the "experts" on here are basing their decision on their frustrations around the current Scotland form and letting their heart rule their head. No one is looking at the logic of wanting to include someone who has, at this moment, played 75 minutes of football since May, in a double header when they are away from their club medical experts for 10 days. That's nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, ProudScot said: You’re the biggest balloon on this board since Chripper 😂😂 I will take that over someone being the most boringly tedious cvnt since ENGLAND-R-GAY. Now fvck off back to your Championship love in you clown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: In summary, and you admit yourself, most of the "experts" on here are basing their decision on their frustrations around the current Scotland form and letting their heart rule their head. No one is looking at the logic of wanting to include someone who has, at this moment, played 75 minutes of football since May, in a double header when they are away from their club medical experts for 10 days. That's nuts! Well put. We are all frustrated as we want to see a fit Kieran Tierney in a Scotland shirt because he’s a good player and can only make a currently poor team better. For many Scotland fans there will always be a question mark over his commitment unless he gets a run of games. Hopefully starting in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: Well put. We are all frustrated as we want to see a fit Kieran Tierney in a Scotland shirt because he’s a good player and can only make a currently poor team better. For many Scotland fans there will always be a question mark over his commitment unless he gets a run of games. Hopefully starting in November. Agreed. If Tierney is regular Arsenal starter then there should be no reason he isn't in Scotland squads. If there is then he doesn't want to play. However, when at proper fitness levels when at Celtic, I never got the impression he ducked squads. I mentioned the Si Ferry podcast with Peter Grant recently. Grant admitted that with all get together's being a double header now and players being away from their clubs for 10 days or so that clubs would use international breaks to give anyone carrying injuries or even niggles a break. He said this was not just a Scotland problem, England faced it too. He was asked why Scotland didn't press for the players inclusion and said that there is no way the SFA would sanction it as they were on the hook for the players club salary if they aggravated their condition while on international duty. Imagine Tierney comes away with us not fully fit, crocks himself again due to not being on a proper rehabilitation schedule and is out for 3 months and the SFA are £900k down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: Have you ever considered that the decision might not actually be Tierney's? It might be his clubs? Based on what they see from him day to day on the training pitch and the tests they do on him. Maybe thats what they based the decision on him not to be included v Man Utd on? Who knows? I don't. I am happy to admit I am not an expert on the fitness levels of top level footballers. Seems I am in the minority in that case however. Every other fvcker seems to be medical experts, no idea why they are all on the TAMB when they could be running their own practices. there's no need to be a prick about it, nobody is pretending to be a fitness expert. We just have differing opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Anyone who watched Tierney in the Carabao Cup game last week would have seen that he is nowhere near fully fit. Although he got up and down the line well, he was clearly blowing out of his arse after 65 minutes, hence his removal soon afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: Anyone who watched Tierney in the Carabao Cup game last week would have seen that he is nowhere near fully fit. Although he got up and down the line well, he was clearly blowing out of his arse after 65 minutes, hence his removal soon afterwards. It will be interesting to see if he plays the full 90 tomorrow and if he plays on Saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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