Happy Royal Wedding Day Fellow Plebs

[Kimba]

I do read my Bible thank you Donny. - 2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

In fact God preserved His Word in the King James Bible and that's what I use.  God is not the author of confusion, He didn't put out hundreds of different bible versions.  We know who did that in order to delete, change and water down.

Now regarding salvation.  My Bible (God's instruction manual) and Paul who is the apostle for this dispensation says that a person is justified and SEALED upon belief of the gospel of grace (i.e. Paul's gospel) - NOT when they prove it with their works or else "they were never saved at all", which Lordship salvation teaches - i.e adding works to salvation by the back door making it a false gospel and making the adherents rely/trust on their works as "proof" that they're saved. 

In fact the false teachers of Lordship Salvation state that there is "no such thing as a carnal Christian" (Washer).  False teachers such as the Freemason John MacArthur has the audacity to call his ministry  "Grace to you'" when it should be "Law to you" since that's what it's doing to the followers of it.

They maybe need to study their Bibles since the Corinthians were a carnal church and saved (1 Cor 1:2).  Paul described them as "babes in Christ" (1 Cor 3:1) who could only be fed milk, not meat. 

Everyone has to start out somewhere.   You have to get saved first then learn, and learning takes a lot of study.  There are rewards for service but none of that is EVER required FOR salvation - that's why it's a FREE GIFT.  It isn't a free gift if other conditions are added to it. 

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ saves souls when they want to be saved.  The god of LS has them on probation, not salvation.  

 

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY gospel.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Kimba

[Kimba]

On May 22, 2018 at 3:53 PM, DonnyTJS said:

even the schmucks who try and do some good in this world. 

Are those the same schmucks that hate God or say He doesn't exist and by their own free will reject his entirely FREE offer of eternal life?

[Kimba]

Folk must be wondering why Donny has suddenly taken to defending Scotty.

Connect the dots and it should become obvious ... who would want to keep someone in a false teaching that keeps people lost by adding works (insidiously by the back door) to faith alone ?    We know who ultimately of course...but I mean who he uses on this earth... their initials being IHS ?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Kimba

[DonnyTJS]

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Folk must be wondering why Donny has suddenly taken to defending Scotty.

Connect the dots and it should become obvious ... who would want to keep someone in a false teaching that keeps people lost by adding works (insidiously by the back door) to faith alone ?    We know who ultimately of course...but I mean who he uses on this earth... their initials being IHS ?

I doubt it. I don't suppose more than a handful are even reading this stuff.

Anyway, as should be obvious, I am not defending Scotty. I was trying to explain (to the couple of people that might be interested enough to be perplexed) the schism that has rent you two asunder. I sympathize with Scotty's position on this because you are following an interpretation of Pauline teaching that is not only fundamentally flawed but is deeply unpleasant.

Since we're here, I like this claim about God the Publisher:

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

In fact God preserved His Word in the King James Bible and that's what I use.  God is not the author of confusion, He didn't put out hundreds of different bible versions.  We know who did that in order to delete, change and water down.

 

How do you know that that is where God preserved his Word?  Seriously, that's quite a claim - how do you know it? Why is it preserved only for readers of early 17th century English? If God didn't want any deletions, changes or waterings down, why not follow the Islamic route and prohibit any translation from, in this case, the original Hebrew and Greek?

Finally (just cos it's interesting) if the King James Version is where God chose to preserve his Word, wouldn't He have stopped jumped-up, mortal playwrights messing with the text?  The year's 1610. Translation work on King James' Bible is carrying on apace as it's to be published the following year. But as in all translations, it's not a simple matter of word-for-word transposition from Hebrew to English; the text must keep its poetic quality. Plenty of poets kicking about England at the time, bring them in to help the Hebrew scholars. One of 'em chooses to leave his calling card in Psalm 46 (count 46 words in from the start, and 46 words back from the end [not counting the extraneous and untranslatable Selahs]. Why '46'? Who happened to be born in 1564?).

[Kimba]

1 hour ago, DonnyTJS said:

I doubt it. I don't suppose more than a handful are even reading this stuff.

Anyway, as should be obvious, I am not defending Scotty. I was trying to explain (to the couple of people that might be interested enough to be perplexed) the schism that has rent you two asunder. I sympathize with Scotty's position on this because you are following an interpretation of Pauline teaching that is not only fundamentally flawed but is deeply unpleasant.

Since The Bible is God's instruction manual to us I Iet that speak for itself - not me correcting it, so no "interpretation" necessary - just reading the words on the page and believing them.  So, just read Romans through Philemon for yourself in the KJV and find out about the revelation of the mystery - a secret hid in God not previously revealed.

What exactly is it you find "deeply unpleasant" about an entirely free gift that makes the recipient very grateful...I have to wonder?  

Because the Lordship people don't rightly divide between prophecy and mystery they erroneously take Israel's doctrine of faith plus works  (taking doctrine from James, Hebrews) which doesn't save in this dispensation as you can't add works to Grace or you nullify it - you bring your own righteousness into the picture (of which you don't have any).  It's all about the righteousness of Christ in the 'but now'.

 

[Kimba]

1 hour ago, DonnyTJS said:

How do you know that that is where God preserved his Word?  Seriously, that's quite a claim - how do you know it? Why is it preserved only for readers of early 17th century English? If God didn't want any deletions, changes or waterings down, why not follow the Islamic route and prohibit any translation from, in this case, the original Hebrew and Greek?

Finally (just cos it's interesting) if the King James Version is where God chose to preserve his Word, wouldn't He have stopped jumped-up, mortal playwrights messing with the text?  The year's 1610. Translation work on King James' Bible is carrying on apace as it's to be published the following year. But as in all translations, it's not a simple matter of word-for-word transposition from Hebrew to English; the text must keep its poetic quality. Plenty of poets kicking about England at the time, bring them in to help the Hebrew scholars. One of 'em chooses to leave his calling card in Psalm 46 (count 46 words in from the start, and 46 words back from the end [not counting the extraneous and untranslatable Selahs]. Why '46'? Who happened to be born in 1564?).

Easy.

Romans 8:

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 Corinthians 2:

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

Spiritual discernment.   All one needs to do is compare the KJV with the new age vatican perversions to see which one is from God.  Verse 14 is about you the unbelievers inability in this regard.

 

 

 

 

[DonnyTJS]

13 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Since The Bible is God's instruction manual to us I Iet that speak for itself - not me correcting it, so no "interpretation" necessary - just reading the words on the page and believing them.  So, just read Romans through Philemon for yourself in the KJV and find out about the revelation of the mystery - a secret hid in God not previously revealed.

The Bible is made up of words. Words are often ambiguous. That's where interpretation come in.

Still, let's take a set of words which appear to have unambiguous meaning and see how they fit with your claims about salvation (you know what's coming, because you've studiously avoided it often enough): On the subject of salvation Paul writes: "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:10) Paul appears to be explicitly stating that a confession of faith is a requirement of salvation. A couple of times you have said that this applies only to the Jews (and in so doing accepting that that's what Paul is saying), about whom Paul is writing at the beginning of chapter 10, but Paul goes on to state: "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Paul is explicitly saying that this applies equally to Jews and Gentiles.

22 minutes ago, Kimba said:

What exactly is it you find "deeply unpleasant" about an entirely free gift that makes the recipient very grateful...I have to wonder?

This:

22 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Because the Lordship people don't rightly divide between prophecy and mystery they erroneously take Israel's doctrine of faith plus works  (taking doctrine from James, Hebrews) which doesn't save in this dispensation as you can't add works to Grace or you nullify it

If works nullify grace, why does Paul say "If a man therefore purge himself from these [some metaphorical vessels], he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work," and "that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works"? (2 Timothy 2:21 & 3:17).

[DonnyTJS]

27 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Easy.

Spiritual discernment.   All one needs to do is compare the KJV with the new age vatican perversions to see which one is from God.  Verse 14 is about you the unbelievers inability in this regard.

 

Ok. Show us this spiritual discernment by making some of these comparisons (while you're at it, you could also explain why he preserved his word for readers of 17th century English, and why he hid Shakespeare's name in Psalm 46).

[Kimba]

4 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

The Bible is made up of words. Words are often ambiguous. That's where interpretation come in.

Still, let's take a set of words which appear to have unambiguous meaning and see how they fit with your claims about salvation (you know what's coming, because you've studiously avoided it often enough): On the subject of salvation Paul writes: "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:10) Paul appears to be explicitly stating that a confession of faith is a requirement of salvation. A couple of times you have said that this applies only to the Jews (and in so doing accepting that that's what Paul is saying), about whom Paul is writing at the beginning of chapter 10, but Paul goes on to state: "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Paul is explicitly saying that this applies equally to Jews and Gentiles.

This:

If works nullify grace, why does Paul say "If a man therefore purge himself from these [some metaphorical vessels], he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work," and "that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works"? (2 Timothy 2:21 & 3:17).

Well they’re not ambiguous to me....perfectly clear and straightforward - but then I’m in the spirit, not the flesh, so it goes back to my last post on spiritual discernment.  You need to believe the gospel first - then you’ll be able to understand better.

Re the confessing with the mouth and calling upon the Lord (again) yes, that is talking about Israel’s program (gentiles could also get saved in Israels program) but also it’s not talking about what Christendom think...it’s not your physical heart or your physical mouth.  It’s a spiritual understanding.  Christendom thinks it means they have to stand up in front of a crowd of folk and confess with their physical mouth.  That would be works.

Re 2 Timothy  - that is doctrine for saved people - not to be saved.

[DonnyTJS]

2 minutes ago, Kimba said:

that is talking about Israel’s program

It's clearly not - Paul says so.

2 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Re 2 Timothy  - that is doctrine for saved people - not to be saved

Then how can adding works to grace nullify it? That's what you claimed. You are making no sense.

[Kimba]

9 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

Ok. Show us this spiritual discernment by making some of these comparisons (while you're at it, you could also explain why he preserved his word for readers of 17th century English, and why he hid Shakespeare's name in Psalm 46).

Why, so I can spend hours wasted trying to convince you of something you’ve already decided about.  Bible hub is a good tool to use.  That will show you all the completely erased verses for a start.  Then there are the changed verses...twistings.

[Kimba]

6 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

It's clearly not - Paul says so.

Then how can adding works to grace nullify it? That's what you claimed. You are making no sense.

Yes it is.  Read Romans 10:1

We do works because we are already saved  NOT TO BE saved - Jesus Christ did all the work in that regard.  Trying to add works FOR salvation is trying to take the credit for what he alone achieved.  I hope you’re getting it now. 1 Cor 2:14 is the problem.

[DonnyTJS]

53 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Why, so I can spend hours wasted trying to convince you of something you’ve already decided about.  Bible hub is a good tool to use.  That will show you all the completely erased verses for a start.  Then there are the changed verses...twistings.

I do use Bible hub a good deal, but you'll need to point out these erased verses of which you speak. Last time you were on here claiming scripture had been erased (in the Roman Catholic catechism, not a version of the Bible), you were shown to be completely wrong.

As for twistings - that's what you're doing with Paul's "there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek".

The argument for the primacy of the KJV is non-existent (in your case based on some deluded 'spiritual discernment' that is denied the rest of us). God does not exclusively favour readers of 17th century English - if he did, I'd be well in ...

[DonnyTJS]

53 minutes ago, Kimba said:

Yes it is.  Read Romans 10:1

We do works because we are already saved  NOT TO BE saved - Jesus Christ did all the work in that regard.  Trying to add works FOR salvation is trying to take the credit for what he alone achieved.  I hope you’re getting it now. 1 Cor 2:14 is the problem.

Then what's your beef with Scotty?  ... don't bother, I know the answer. The doctrines of your current sect really are something to behold. Right division means dividing yourselves from the teachings of Christ. Why bother with the rest of the Bible at all, in whatever version? Your scripture consists of a few letters written by a fanatical convert (and we all know how fanatical converts can be). It'd be sad if it actually meant anything.

[Kimba]

16 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

I do use Bible hub a good deal, but you'll need to point out these erased verses of which you speak. Last time you were on here claiming scripture had been erased (in the Roman Catholic catechism, not a version of the Bible), you were shown to be completely wrong.

As for twistings - that's what you're doing with Paul's "there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek".

The argument for the primacy of the KJV is non-existent (in your case based on some deluded 'spiritual discernment' that is denied the rest of us). God does not exclusively favour readers of 17th century English - if he did, I'd be well in ...

Okaayyy, you’re on.  But I need to sleep first.  Actually, this will be a good refresher for me. Don’t be under any illusions of me trying to convince you of anything - I don’t need to prove anything.  

In the meantime you can read these

https://ambassadorsfortherisenchristministries.org/2009/05/14/biblos/

http://graceambassadors.com/bible/7-important-doctrines-about-the-bible

 

 

[Kimba]

23 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

in your case based on some deluded 'spiritual discernment' that is denied the rest of us). God does not exclusively favour readers of 17th century English - if he did, I'd be well in ...

It isn’t denied you.  You get it in the whole package deal when you believe the gospel.  You have chosen not to believe - your free will choice.

[Kimba]

21 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

Then what's your beef with Scotty?  ... don't bother, I know the answer. The doctrines of your current sect really are something to behold. Right division means dividing yourselves from the teachings of Christ. Why bother with the rest of the Bible at all, in whatever version? Your scripture consists of a few letters written by a fanatical convert (and we all know how fanatical converts can be). It'd be sad if it actually meant anything.

Because he’s trusting in his ‘obedience’ which he says isn’t works.  Guessing he got that from Freemason MacArthur.  Yes it is works - if it’s not faith it’s works - obedience is doing something.

Romans 4 

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

As in “I’m more obedient than that person, so I deserve to go to heaven more than them - oh, and their bad works prove they were never saved at all”.   

That horrific false doctrine causes a terribly haughty attitude.  A bit like this:

 

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

Quite a transdispensational Truth there.  Scotty is still tithing today, even though it’s putting him under the curse of the law.

 

 

 

[Kimba]

41 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

. Right division means dividing yourselves from the teachings of Christ. Why bother with the rest of the Bible at all, in whatever version? Your scripture consists of a few letters written by a fanatical convert (and we all know how fanatical converts can be). It'd be sad if it actually meant anything.

Forgot to address this bit.   No, no, no, no...... The ascended Jesus Christ GAVE the instructions TO Paul.  

 

Galatians  1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

2 Tim 3:16 

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

 

 

[Scotty CTA]

5 hours ago, Kimba said:

We do works because we are already saved...

If only I'd have posted that. 

[Kimba]

http://www.av1611.org/biblevs.html

List of some deleted verses.   

 

 

[Kimba]

4 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

If only I'd have posted that. 

http://shopeshop.org/Searchable Riches!/Authors/Finck, Joel/Lordship Salvation.pdf

Scott, I sent this in an email to you months ago .... did you get time to read it ? 

[Scotty CTA]

I didn't.

(You seem oblivious to the fact that you're barking up the wrong tree.)

Thank you, but I am genuinely saved.

[Kimba]

4 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

I didn't.

(You seem oblivious to the fact that you're barking up the wrong tree.)

Thank you, but I am genuinely saved.

I'm not - you said your works are proof you are saved.  Im telling you that they are not, and proves that's what you're relying on,  You said yourself obedience isn't works - yes it is!  Im trying to help you, but your pride is getting in the way.

[Kimba]

FAO Donny:

Another one to check out:

New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
"How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

New American Standard Bible 
"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

King James Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Christian Standard Bible
Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground.

 

 

[bonzo]

Cudnae give a flying fuck but strangely interested.... Are you two trying to get me in a cult? Hahaha