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On 5/28/2018 at 2:24 PM, mariokempes56 said:

Nobody ever told me all this shit at BB bible class.(I only went so could play football)

Just believe the gospel of grace and you will be saved and sealed for eternity that very second.

Religious people don’t like it as they want to have something to do with their salvation. Which is why they re not yet justified.

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On 5/28/2018 at 10:54 PM, Scotty CTA said:

 

Oh, and why does Jesus separate the sheep from the goats at 'The Great White Throne Judgement' (He doesn't, you know) if everyone at 'The Great White Throne Judgement' ends up in The Lake Of Fire?

(Doesn't make any sense, does it?)

Now... In your pride, you're not wrong if you don't admit it. Right?

You’re right - the sheep and goats are separated at the second coming, not the white throne.

We, the Body of Christ are not there though.  The rapture and second coming are two different events.

 

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See, I can admit I am wrong (when sheep and goat separation occurs - you’re still wrong about the body of Christ being there and us being the ones separated).

Although, it was on a non salvation issue.  

Saying your behavior “proves” you are saved and using scripture for Israel to back it up IS a salvation issue.

Edited by Kimba
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Scotty quoted these scriptures to me in emails as “proof you can’t continue  to live like the devil and be saved” (as he repeated on page 4 of this thread).  Scotty is CLEARLY trusting in his behavior as “proof” he is saved. He just won’t admit it.

 

Three Troubling Pauline Passages

The most amazing statements on salvation by grace without works in the entire Bible are found in Paul’s epistles. What liberation it is for sinners to learn that God offers salvation freely by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ (Eph 2:8-9Gal 5:1). 

There is nothing you do to deserve or earn salvation from God. 

Nevertheless, there are a few Pauline passages that repeatedly trouble new believers as to whether their sins can negate what God has given them by grace. 

For the religious minded fruit inspectors 1 Corinthians 6:9-10Ephesians 5:5-6, and Galatians 5:21 become tests of salvation, and when you fail the test one of these explanations is given: 

“You were never a Christian in the first place.”
“A Christian would never do these things.”
“Faith without works is dead.”
“You need to repent and get right (again) with God.”

Not Tests of Salvations

Let’s be clear. If these three passages are talking about conditions or qualifications for salvation then there will be no one but Christ in the kingdom of God. 

A look at the wide scope of sins mentioned in these passages disqualifies all but the self-righteous in their own delusions.

It would also mean that your salvation by grace is not through faith, but through your continuance in doing good works the rest of your life. This described salvation under Israel’s covenant relationship, but not in this dispensation of grace (Mark 13:13Lev 18:5). 

No, these passages are not tests of salvation or membership in the body of Christ.

See here for whole article

http://graceambassadors.com/salvation/three-troubling-pauline-passages

 

Edited by Kimba
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So, to conclude - its clear now:

ISRAEL has a FUTURE salvation on earth which is where Jesus separates the goats and sheep at his second coming after the 7 year tribulation.   Scotty and much of Christendom erroneously think they are the sheep because they ignore that it states that is Israel that is being referred to and don't rightly divide and they are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of the mystery program given to the apostle Paul.  

Israel have a performance based acceptance program (works to back up their faith), which is why apostate Christendom believe their behaviour/obedience proves they are the sheep and not goats. However, they are wrong because Israel is presently FALLEN (Romans 11:11) and that prophetic program will not be reinstated until after the rapture of the Body of Christ. 

The Body of Christ in the present dispensation of grace has a PRESENT POSSESSION of eternal salvation (see scripture below) that we get when we simply believe the gospel of grace.  This dispensation does NOT have a performance based acceptance program, which is why OUR APOSTLE PAUL in this dispensation of the MYSTERY program clearly states it is without works, whereas the twelve (for the twelve tribes of Israel) preached works of righteousness for their future salvation.

So, apostate Christendom are in the WRONG program and trying to earn their salvation by adding works to faith (no matter how hard they tell you they aren't) which you can't do in this dispensation (Romans 4:4).   They should instead be trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the FULL PAYMENT for their sins.

No-one needs to know right division to be saved - they only need to believe the gospel of grace - i.e. TRUSTING in the finished work of Jesus Christ and not your own performance for salvation. However, it's vital to know RD for growth and so you don't fall into apostasy such as thinking you are Israel.

 

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by FAITH, we have PEACE with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have NOW RECEIVED THE ATONEMENT

Colossians 1:13 Who HATH delivered as from the power of darkness, and HATH translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Colossians 2:10 And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who HATH blessed us with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye hear the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of his glory

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Kimba said:

So, to conclude - its clear now:

ISRAEL has a FUTURE salvation on earth which is where Jesus separates the goats and sheep at his second coming after the 7 year tribulation.   Scotty and much of Christendom erroneously think they are the sheep because they ignore that it states that is Israel that is being referred to and don't rightly divide and they are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of the mystery program given to the apostle Paul.  

Israel have a performance based acceptance program (works to back up their faith), which is why apostate Christendom believe their behaviour/obedience proves they are the sheep and not goats. However, they are wrong because Israel is presently FALLEN (Romans 11:11) and that prophetic program will not be reinstated until after the rapture of the Body of Christ. 

The Body of Christ in the present dispensation of grace has a PRESENT POSSESSION of eternal salvation (see scripture below) that we get when we simply believe the gospel of grace.  This dispensation does NOT have a performance based acceptance program, which is why OUR APOSTLE PAUL in this dispensation of the MYSTERY program clearly states it is without works, whereas the twelve (for the twelve tribes of Israel) preached works of righteousness for their future salvation.

So, apostate Christendom are in the WRONG program and trying to earn their salvation by adding works to faith (no matter how hard they tell you they aren't) which you can't do in this dispensation (Romans 4:4).   They should instead be trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the FULL PAYMENT for their sins.

No-one needs to know right division to be saved - they only need to believe the gospel of grace - i.e. TRUSTING in the finished work of Jesus Christ and not your own performance for salvation. However, it's vital to know RD for growth and so you don't fall into apostasy such as thinking you are Israel.

 

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by FAITH, we have PEACE with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have NOW RECEIVED THE ATONEMENT

Colossians 1:13 Who HATH delivered as from the power of darkness, and HATH translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Colossians 2:10 And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who HATH blessed us with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye hear the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of his glory

 

 

Still at it and no opinion the the topic. So the dress yes or no?

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10 hours ago, Kimba said:

So, to conclude - its clear now:

ISRAEL has a FUTURE salvation on earth which is where Jesus separates the goats and sheep at his second coming after the 7 year tribulation.   Scotty and much of Christendom erroneously think they are the sheep because they ignore that it states that is Israel that is being referred to and don't rightly divide and they are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of the mystery program given to the apostle Paul.  

Israel have a performance based acceptance program (works to back up their faith), which is why apostate Christendom believe their behaviour/obedience proves they are the sheep and not goats. However, they are wrong because Israel is presently FALLEN (Romans 11:11) and that prophetic program will not be reinstated until after the rapture of the Body of Christ. 

The Body of Christ in the present dispensation of grace has a PRESENT POSSESSION of eternal salvation (see scripture below) that we get when we simply believe the gospel of grace.  This dispensation does NOT have a performance based acceptance program, which is why OUR APOSTLE PAUL in this dispensation of the MYSTERY program clearly states it is without works, whereas the twelve (for the twelve tribes of Israel) preached works of righteousness for their future salvation.

So, apostate Christendom are in the WRONG program and trying to earn their salvation by adding works to faith (no matter how hard they tell you they aren't) which you can't do in this dispensation (Romans 4:4).   They should instead be trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the FULL PAYMENT for their sins.

No-one needs to know right division to be saved - they only need to believe the gospel of grace - i.e. TRUSTING in the finished work of Jesus Christ and not your own performance for salvation. However, it's vital to know RD for growth and so you don't fall into apostasy such as thinking you are Israel.

 

None of that is clear in Paul, for the perfectly simple reason that Paul never said it. What he did say, clearly, was that "there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek" (Romans 10:12). He had plenty of opportunity to spell out this 'program' (chapter 8 of Romans would be one obvious place when he talks about what can separate us from Christ), but he doesn't. Indeed, 'program' isn't a biblical word. It's a 20th century North American usage … which is where this novel misreading of Paul originates. 

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1 hour ago, Kimba said:

There are no contradictions when you rightly divide.  Get saved by faith alone. Praying for you. x

As has been mentioned before, ad nauseum, 'right division' in this case means dividing Romans 10:10 from Romans 10:12. That's not 'right division', that's redaction. Inventing a 'new dispensation' and then cherry-picking bits of scripture to support it is a poor route to salvation.

1 hour ago, Kimba said:

Come on Mr. stop gatekeeping for the occultists. I want your soul saved Donny and you will be. You know the truth.

That's very kind of you, but I'm reasonably confident that it doesn't work quite like that. I also think that if I was working for the occultists, I'd mention the benefits of the occult now and again - you know, a bit of mild occultism clears the sinuses and does wonders for the libido: that kind of thing ...

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On 5/28/2018 at 8:24 PM, mariokempes56 said:

Nobody ever told me all this shit at BB bible class.(I only went so could play football)

😁 that takes me back. Blackmail I think they call it now. What a waste of a Sunday morning. 

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10 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

None of that is clear in Paul, for the perfectly simple reason that Paul never said it. What he did say, clearly, was that "there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek" (Romans 10:12). He had plenty of opportunity to spell out this 'program' (chapter 8 of Romans would be one obvious place when he talks about what can separate us from Christ), but he doesn't. Indeed, 'program' isn't a biblical word. It's a 20th century North American usage … which is where this novel misreading of Paul originates. 

In the dispensation of grace there is no difference between Jew and Greek - the middle wall of partition was broken down and now everyone gets saved the same way - justification by faith alone in Christ alone - no works.  That isn’t the case after the catching away (rapture) though.  After that God goes back to dealing with people through the prophetic program of Israel.

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9 minutes ago, Kimba said:

In the dispensation of grace there is no difference between Jew and Greek - the middle wall of partition was broken down and now everyone gets saved the same way - justification by faith alone in Christ alone - no works.  That isn’t the case after the catching away (rapture) though.  After that God goes back to dealing with people through the prophetic program of Israel.

Honestly do you believe that drivel ? I feel for you.

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13 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Honestly do you believe that drivel ? I feel for you.

I used to believe the same as you ....big bang, evolution....lies of men.

Now I know different.

Your flesh will die but the soul lives on.  It all boils down to whether someone wants to spend eternity with the creator....or separated from him.

I chose the free gift (zero strings attached).

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10 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

 Indeed, 'program' isn't a biblical word. It's a 20th century North American usage … which is where this novel misreading of Paul originates. 

‘Program’ may not be, however DISPENSATION most definitely is (conveniently removed from the new age bible Vatican perversions).

We are currently in the Mystery dispensation given to Paul by the Lord Jesus Christ. 

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Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

 

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Matthew 24 is Not My Future

By Justin Johnson

Jesus’ ministry in Matthew-John was to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Mat 15:24). His ministry to the circumcision confirmed the covenant promises to the nation Israel (Rom 15:8). 

Nowhere in these books do we find the mystery information later revealed by the Lord Jesus to Paul. This includes Matthew 24 where Jesus tells his chosen judges of the twelve tribes about the “sign of his coming”. 

We know from the context that Jesus is still speaking to his covenant people according to prophecy. None of the events in Matthew 24 are written for our participation. Here are some clues that we do not fit in this audience.

Salvation by Enduring

In Matthew 24 salvation is received through endurance (Mat 24:13). Yet, salvation today in the dispensation of God’s grace does not depend on our endurance through tribulation. It rests solely upon the finished work of Christ and provides salvation now.

“And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.” – Rom 5:11

Gospel of the Kingdom

God’s message to covenant Israel in Matt-John was that the Messiah had arrived and the promised kingdom was coming (Mark 1:14-15). This is different from God’s message of grace concerning the free justification and reconciliation that he provides by the blood of Christ. 

In Matthew 24:14 they are preaching the prophetic gospel of the kingdom. This would not be the mystery gospel of the cross that Paul preaches. The twelve tribes did not know the mystery gospel which had not been revealed. 

Holy Place Activities

Matthew 24:15 speaks of prophesied events about the Jewish temple and their holy place (Matt 24:15). There is no “holy place”, temple, or chosen nation in this dispensation. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ (Col 3:11). We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” – 1 Corinthians 3:16

Trouble in Judaea

Jesus tells those in Judaea to flee to the mountains because of the tribulation (Mat 24:16). Yet, most of the church today does not live in Judaea. We would not fit in this context. 

Anyway, what would they be fleeing from? The context talks about trouble and wrath coming to that place (Matt 24:21). 

Matthew 24 is about the Lord fulfilling his prophecy purpose on the earth. When he returns in Matt 24:30 it will be in judgment to establish his earthly kingdom in Judea (Rev 19:11). None of these things can happen while God is offering free salvation to the world in this dispensation on terms of peace. 

If we are looking for the sign’s of God’s judgment then we should be telling people to flee and fear as the Lord does in Matthew 24.

Instead, God has given us a new message. We are God’s ambassadors offering grace, peace, and reconciliation to the world through Calvary’s cross.

http://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/matthew-24-is-not-my-future

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IS THE RAPTURE IN MATTHEW 24:40-41 AND LUKE 17:34-36?

by Shawn Brasseaux

Can we find the Rapture in Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 17? Some say yes. Others say no. We will not take anyone’s word for it. We will not idly speculate either. As Bereans, we will look into God’s Word for ourselves and let it interpret itself.

Matthew 24:36-41 says: “[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” (Note people being taken away in verses 40-41.)

Luke 17:24-37, the (longer) parallel passage, provides additional details worth mentioning: “[24] For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. [25] But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. [26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. [28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; [29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. [31] In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. [32] Remember Lot’s wife. [33] Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. [35] Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [36] Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[37] And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” (Note people being taken away in verses 34-36.)

When the Son of man, Jesus Christ, returns to Earth at His Second Coming, people will be taken away. Matthew 24:40-41: “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” Luke chapter 17: “[34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. [35] Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [36] Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” Who exactly is being taken? Believers, or lost people? Where exactly are they taken? Heaven, or somewhere else? We need not guess. The Bible tells us!

The Lord Jesus said the key was to understand what happened during the Great Flood of Noah’s day. Matthew chapter 24 again: “[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Who was taken in the Great Flood? Friend, if you know your Bible, you understand it was certainly the unbelievers taken away in the Flood. No believers perished. Remember, the believers were safe in the Ark that Noah built according to God’s instructions. Jesus Christ’s Second Coming will likewise take away the unsaved/lost people, leaving only the believing remnant (Israel and her Gentile blessers) on Earth.

Luke 17:37 again: “And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” The disciples wondered where these people were taken. They were not taken to heaven! They were not taken to meet the Lord in the air as in the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17)! The Lord said they would be taken to where the eagles gather. The people being taken away in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are being judged and destroyed. This is the great judgment/wrath at Christ’s Second Coming, when God kills His enemies and instructs scavenger-birds to gather and eat their corpses (Revelation 19:17-21). This is “the Supper of the Great God” (verse 17) and “the Marriage Supper of the Lamb” (verse 9).

THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL

Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. But these individuals are not taken away to heaven. Jesus Himself said they are taken away in judgment! As the Great Flood destroyed the unbelievers, so the Second Coming will take away the unbelievers from Earth (Luke 17:37; Matthew 24:39).

Actually, Jesus never talked about the Rapture during His earthly ministry. Why? Because the Rapture was fiction? No. Because it was notyet time to reveal the secret of the Rapture. For the Holy Spirit to lead Paul to call the Rapture a “mystery” (secret) in 1 Corinthians 15:51 would be a lie if Jesus had already revealed the teaching of the Rapture years earlier in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36. Israel is not involved with the Rapture, so Jesus had no reason to tell Israel about it in the Four Gospels. The Rapture is an event strictly involving the Church the Body of Christ (believers only) being removed from Earth before Israel’s prophetic program resumes. Hence, we can find the Rapture only in Paul’s epistles, Romans through Philemon. God did not reveal the Rapture until Paul’s ministry. In Israel’s program, there is no secret gathering together unto Christ in the air; Jesus Christ comes on the Earthfor Israel (Zechariah 14:1-4).

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/2016/05/31/rapture-matthew-24-40-41-luke-17-34-36/

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20 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

Now you bloody tell us. PM me the application form will you?

 

15 hours ago, andymac said:

Me too.

Make it 4 please Donny. 

14 hours ago, mariokempes56 said:

Honestly do you believe that drivel ? I feel for you.

Don’t worry I’ve added you onto the occultist application list and I’ll drop it off on Saturday. ✍🏻🙂

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2 minutes ago, G-Man said:

 

Make it 4 please Donny. 

Don’t worry I’ve added you onto the occultist application list and I’ll drop it off on Saturday. ✍🏻🙂

Nice one. I look forward to it. These sinuses have been giving me grief for years. 

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